Solo Leveling - Day phase 3

While I do not even slightly understand why Pie would dig in and waste half a day for everyone harping on "Well did you tell your guild mates" or demand full role claims from a player they town read its possible it was not to the end of clearing themselves. While it looks like very poor play its not necessarily scummy.

It’s Pie, so when it comes to claims and the order in which they’re given, he’ll often push back when pushed. In a game where he’s mod-confirmed town, I’d expect him to push harder, especially if he feels he’s onto something.

So I am going to say this as kindly as I can. I think the town is fucking stupid here. Lets unpack what happened logically-

We have Rex- A guild leader confirmed recruit to a guild. They voice a red check on Pie. Cool.

Pies response- Starts out with them demanding a full role claim voicing its necessary for their confirmed defence.

Then Pie evolves into "Well tell me if you told your guild mates who you would target! Its critical to my claim and I must know and there is no reason to hide it!"

Then Pie finally reveals. Oh shit- Their claim had absolutely nothing to do with Rex's role? The question of if the guild members of Rex's people knew checking them was a thing did not even have any bearing at all on their alignment claim or confirming that they are town? Hmmm. Interesting.

At this point Pie has utterly and completely lied. The question is why. Scum would obviously want a full role claim and to know who was recruited and unlocked town powers. Lets pause for a second before I ramble about the rest and consider this. That Pie absolutely lied demanding information they did not need acting like it somehow was critical to them being cleared and now it seems like its total bullshit.

Lol what did I lie about. If I know I’m mod confirmed town, and I believe that REF got a red check on me, I want to make sure that

A) REF isn’t lying - which I realized he likely isn’t because it’s a suicide wish

B) REF told his guild mates because they have an incentive to either frame me, or redirect REF to implicate me

C) It is critical information, and now we’re stuck at an impasse because REF refuses to say who’s in his guild because they’re likely scum, and if we lynch that scum, he loses to my guild.

Is Pie confirmed town with their claim? I would say in no way. The best evidence is the lack of a counter claim. We know that their guild only got 1 recruit D1 and do not know who (if anyone) was recruited past then. We have not seen a single person step forward and claim that "Yes, Pie was the original guild owner" and absolutely nothing has been confirmed in the slightest. Yet now they are again pressuring the only revealed guild member to out their people and role because.... Uhh... Fucking why?

Literally what scum motive do I have here. Literally zero. REF is refusing to state who his guild mate is when they can be scum. He is PRIORITIZING HIS GUILD over killing scum.

let me ask u it this way. u know for a fact u r town, and someone is claiming a result on u. u, knowing ur town, automtically know the results are wrong or the person with the results are lying with the second being less likely. pie has the added benefit of being able to confirm himself. wut do you do in this situation?

Exactly.

Pie pushing to lynch Rex? Thats scummy as fuck. They declared they believe Rex was not scum and now pressure them to reveal information or die because...? Sounds scummy as hell to me. You do not town read a slot then advocate to kill them when they do not do what you want.

Im fine lynching him for 2 reasons:

1) He has actively shown he’s willing to protect potential scum so he can pursue his guild wincon, which by definition is anti-town

2) Lynching him helps me get closer to achieving my guild wincon, which I don’t really care about. Idc if I lose as long as we catch scum. But if the other side wants to play hard ball, I can play too

Once he takes this final step and actually confirms myself, I'm willing to work with him, up to the point of dissolving my guild entirely. Waiting for some answers from Mikal while I investigate things internally, but I do want to say one thing because it seems to be the working assumption among some people: Shining is NOT in my guild.

I already gave you a plan. I will tell one member to out. You reveal your member, then I will reveal the other. Do you accept?

So look, With what WF voiced you likely are simply just town.

You pushing Rex to reveal their guild mates- I do not see any real town benefit from that. It edges on the hypothetical that they both have a scum in their guild and some form of redirect/framer on their team. So what is the trade off there? On a potential hypothetical you out chunks of awakened town power roles. I figure their guild can make its own decisions on if it needs to sort its people.

That said you wanting to lynch Rex is just dumb. You openly do not scum read them but you are willing to lynch them out of what? Prideful spite because they disrespected your authority or some shit? Come on man. Chill out and lets get back to digging for scum. The "Lets wagon Rex to force them to be a town the way we want" is some silly shit.

I will acknowledge that I had tunnel vision on you but really you pulled some very awkward shifty nonsense digging in on points that totally did not matter. And even now you are still kinda doing that in a way thats at best very tangentially in line with supporting towns win con. If you squint your eyes and tilt your head at just the right angle you can see how its potentially possible that there could be a scum in Lunatics guild that somehow influenced a check on you with only 2 scum alive at the time of the action.

Im still interested in Shining. I do not believe their claim. 1 shot lighting rod that has to be recruited to be used just feels very under powered and I say that feeling that I have a very weak role.

Could we maybe keep our town power roles a secret and not reveal them all to scum over some dick measuring contest?

So look, With what WF voiced you likely are simply just town.

I know I am town. I’m more town than anyone here.

You pushing Rex to reveal their guild mates- I do not see any real town benefit from that.

There is a clear benefit in the sense that the person is likely scum lol. I will explain it to you for the 15th time. At most, there’s one other person in that guild, assuming you’re telling the truth about rejecting. NP0 REF was recruited. NP2 they could’ve recruited again. NP3 REF used his ability so they couldn’t have recruited.

Let’s assume there is 1 other person besides REF, and that person is scum. Let’s assume that REF told that person he was going to investigate me.

That would’ve ended in my lynch immediately. Because flips don’t get posted till tomorrow, you wouldn’t know that I was innocent. REF gets NKed by their scum guild mate and takes control of the entire guild and gets rid of town Pie, and no one knows what happened.

It edges on the hypothetical that they both have a scum in their guild and some form of redirect/framer on their team. So what is the trade off there? On a potential hypothetical you out chunks of awakened town power roles. I figure their guild can make its own decisions on if it needs to sort its people. 

The problem is we can no longer trust REF. With Luna, I 100% trusted him to honor the fact that he would scum hunt at the expense of his own guild wincon. We need to know who that guild mate is. Period.

That said you wanting to lynch Rex is just dumb. You openly do not scum read them but you are willing to lynch them out of what? Prideful spite because they disrespected your authority or some shit? Come on man. Chill out and lets get back to digging for scum. The "Lets wagon Rex to force them to be a town the way we want" is some silly shit.

No, I already explained why I want to lynch him. He is being anti-town, and it plays towards my wincon. If he wants to play hard ball, I can too.

I will acknowledge that I had tunnel vision on you but really you pulled some very awkward shifty nonsense digging in on points that totally did not matter. And even now you are still kinda doing that in a way thats at best very tangentially in line with supporting towns win con. If you squint your eyes and tilt your head at just the right angle you can see how its potentially possible that there could be a scum in Lunatics guild that somehow influenced a check on you with only 2 scum alive at the time of the action.

Why is this possibility so unlikely for you? It’s a foolproof plan for scum. They never could’ve factored in that Wylted was lying to begin with.

Im still interested in Shining. I do not believe their claim. 1 shot lighting rod that has to be recruited to be used just feels very under powered and I say that feeling that I have a very weak role.

Shining is likely the last scum besides the person in that guild.

Could we maybe keep our town power roles a secret and not reveal them all to scum over some dick measuring contest?

I’m not going to reveal what stuff my guild mates have. I don’t even want to name them, but REF refuses to believe I’m town, when the entire town believes I’m town.

Your theory is again leveraged on likely 2 living Mafia having some specific framing/redirect function + one of those mafia being in a guild that has maybe 1 other person. Thats pretty low odds imo and not a great reason to execute a player you think is more likely town than not for not following your plan.

Maybe lets jump on Shining instead and keep this in mind as the game pushes forward before we out all our PR and catabolize our guilds?

Your theory is again leveraged on likely 2 living Mafia having some specific framing/redirect function + one of those mafia being in a guild that has maybe 1 other person. Thats pretty low odds imo and not a great reason to execute a player you think is more likely town than not for not following your plan.

Yes, a redirector makes sense especially with a Strengthener who I town read. A framer also should make sense considering there’s a claimed cop.

Maybe lets jump on Shining instead and keep this in mind as the game pushes forward before we out all our PR and catabolize our guilds?

You’re literally not cannibalizing anything. After me and Luna, anyone in the guilds could be scum. I happen to trust both people. Luna trusted REF for sure. Dunno about the other person.

Also, I’m the sole remaining mod confirmed town. Listen to what I say

#567

I don't necessarily agree. We know Mafia got fake claims. We don't know if it was just characters or also roles. We can be confident that if it was roles, the recruit redirection bit from Thoth and the action doubling from Alyssa were not included.

And this assumes that mafia knew beforehand doctor and poison healer were on the same slot

Kohai said this after Vader outed it was the same slot. They implication is that Mafia may have known before you claimed poisoned, but there's no reason at that time to believe in Kohai knew.

I do agree that you aren't confirmed town though.

Helz, you didn't decline the guild invite NP0, did you? You're the mole?

VTL Helz

Lol that’s what I was thinking too

Also, I’m the sole remaining mod confirmed town. Listen to what I say

With what WhiteFlame pointed out your much more likely than not confirmed town. I do not see a world where as scum you would do something so insane unless you had totally compromised the hunters guild as scum + just wanted 1 more day. Thats self resolving and I am fine saying "I was wrong" and that your probably 95% confirmed town.

But the fact you are town in no way means I should follow your lead. You have done a series of things I disagree with and are pushing a line I think is hardline detrimental for town. While you and your Brokeback Mountain buddies are larping as trees smiting furries while you hide in a bush your guild can chew rocks.

Eliminating Rex is stupid. Its exponentially more stupid given you town read them. You wanting to reveal all town power roles is also stupid. Its exponentially more stupid given you agree we have a likely outed scum in front of us. The odds of it working out are also low. You have what 3 people? Rex probably has 2? So we out 5 power roles on the slight chance that in a 2p mafia team they not only got 1 of their 2 people recruited but also had the exact needed role? How does this make sense as a strategy?

You may be town. But it does not mean I will follow your lead when you push bad play like this after handling the red check in such a silly way. Honestly you coulda resolved that in like 1 post and instead we have ~300 posts on the stupid shit as you flailed around demanding silly nonsense so you could shade your opposing guild. Fuck your tree hugger guilds secondary win condition. Leave the rest of the town out of it.

The only way to disprove Pie in this situation is for TWO guild members to come forward, as we know there are only two scum left so it couldn't possibly be a gambit to save Pie's ass.

Once he takes this final step and actually confirms myself, I'm willing to work with him, up to the point of dissolving my guild entirely. Waiting for some answers from Mikal while I investigate things internally, but I do want to say one thing because it seems to be the working assumption among some people: Shining is NOT in my guild.

I'm okay with the two peeps verifying Pie coming forward today so that we can get closer to a solve.

As for Shining not being in your guild, it doesn't mean they aren't a redirector who was informed by your other guild mate.

Helz asked all of those questions to Pie trying to lock down an out for himself once Pie confirmed himself. Interesting turn of events.

Wylted was right, you are a retard. Literally no one is talking about revealing power roles who are in the guilds. And it’s because of REF refusing to reveal who he told information to that we’re in this position. If he wants to play to his other wincon, I’m fine playing it too.

Im against anyone needing to come forward to confirm Pie. The flip will clear it up enough as WF pointed out and there is no need to reveal developed PR

Im against anyone needing to come forward to confirm Pie. The flip will clear it up enough as WF pointed out and there is no need to reveal developed PR

Great, now tell REF to reveal who is in his guild that knew that he was going to investigate me.

Helz asked all of those questions to Pie trying to lock down an out for himself once Pie confirmed himself. Interesting turn of events.

I love it. This game is full of ironies. Should def go in the HoF

If Rex's guild mate is mafia, then the original of Pie's guild mates is town for not informing mafia they were making a play on confirmable town. I reckon the second is probably town too, but I don't know at what point of the night you join the chat. Knowing who was recruited, and in what order they were recruited, is critical to the solve.

Wylted was right, you are a retard. Literally no one is talking about revealing power roles who are in the guilds. And it’s because of REF refusing to reveal who he told information to that we’re in this position. If he wants to play to his other wincon, I’m fine playing it too.

Im going to speak slowly and use small words breaking this down barney style for you-

Guild recruitment = having night actions

Revealing guild recruits = revealing what town can act

If you want to be paranoid that Rex was pushing their win con think this through- how would they even know your part of the Tree Hugger cult anyways? That info did not come out until after you claimed. You are acting like your little guild win con bullshit is some total war. I could give a shit less about it and you are jumping to an assumption of bad faith that I doubt is possible. Unless you want to tell me you have some guild member check we do not know about and was not mentioned on Lunatics flip.

If Rex's guild mate is mafia, then the original of Pie's guild mates is town for not informing mafia they were making a play on confirmable town. I reckon the second is probably town too, but I don't know at what point of the night you join the chat. Knowing who was recruited, and in what order they were recruited, is critical to the solve.

I can answer this one. They join after the NP is over.

Helz asked all of those questions to Pie trying to lock down an out for himself once Pie confirmed himself. Interesting turn of events.

Im not sure what you are on about here. I have not been even slightly defensive in my interactions with Pie. I just saw what they were doing as illogical and scummy. I still see it as illogical. They made a giant stupid stink over a simple issue because they could not see past their giant ego.

Fucking just imagine if the day phase smited half the posts because Pie had just come out and said "Actually I am the confirmed guild leader" to start with.

For all the fancy bullshit in their head they accomplished less than nothing and wasted a ton of the towns time. Now they want people to sheep them as they push to eliminate a player they town read because they are on some power trip? No thank you.

Im going to speak slowly and use small words breaking this down barney style for you-

Guild recruitment = having night actions

Everyone knows that. No one knows what they are lmao. You can’t plan around them if you don’t know what they are is the point.

Revealing guild recruits = revealing what town can act

And there can be townies outside of guilds who still can act.

If you want to be paranoid that Rex was pushing their win con think this through- how would they even know your part of the Tree Hugger cult anyways?

What are you even saying? I never said he was pushing his wincon until after I had already claimed.

That info did not come out until after you claimed. You are acting like your little guild win con bullshit is some total war.

It fuckin is because he’s hiding potential scum from town. And you’re enabling him to whether because you’re in a guild with him and are implicated, or you’re just a moron.

I could give a shit less about it and you are jumping to an assumption of bad faith that I doubt is possible. Unless you want to tell me you have some guild member check we do not know about and was not mentioned on Lunatics flip.

What are you even saying lmfao.