Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Casey_Risk (2/6): Thoth (p#121), Mikal (p#269)
Mikal (2/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185)
Bullish (1/6): Helz (p#287)
Not Voting (6): Casey_Risk, Lunatic (p#155), Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, whiteflame
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 18 hours.
Pretty sure casey is a they/them or a female btw
It's the first of these
Also casey taking the risk of claiming dreamer right off the bat when she was the number one other major wagon is another thing to factor in. Me risking it was still risky in Russia mafia just because I am an active player and a likely visit, but her claiming it as scum would be basically throwing, she should have assumed as scum someone would have visited her. Extreme amounts of risk for for extreme amounts of reward, but that reward isn't paying off since shes still being talked about being lynched.
Honestly, I was pretty surprised that I got a dream. I was expecting that someone would likely investigate me.
I would like them to stay as an option. Out of everything Im really stuck on Casey/Bullish. 3 Invests looks like too much to me
I'm not completely sold on Bullish being town or anything, but I don't know why so many people here think this is so unlikely. CoD Black Ops Mafia, one of Pie's previous games, had three town investigatives, and one of them was a time traveler. It's very conceivable to me that all three are in the game
Btw I'm trying to keep up with this game while at work but my mobile data is being very wonky today for some reason. Doing my best to keep up regardless
I targeted Luna during the NP. I thought, as a result, that I had drawn off roles that were used against Luna. Based on your Tracker result, that was incorrect. Instead, my target was somehow changed to Shining.
Since Mikal used his Magnet on Luna and directed him to me, if we're buying Luna's claim, he would have hid behind me with his Compulsive Hider despite targeting you.
So Pie just confirmed to me that Mikal's hypothetical magnet role would process BEFORE Whiteflame's lightning rod, and that a vanillaizer would process after both. Asking about other roles and trying to map this out right now.
Anyone still stuck on "3 investigatives is too much" is being obstinate. Look at this game casey linked: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12646-call-of-duty-black-ops-mafia-endgame
Another pie game. 9 players instead of 13. THREE investigatives:
Bullish - You are Grigori Weaver. You were sent behind enemy lines, deep into the Soviet Union, with one objective: infiltrate Dragovich’s launch facility at Baikonur and disable the rocket before it could take off. It was a mission tailored to your strengths—stealth, precision, and your knowledge of the USSR. But things went wrong. You were compromised before reaching your target. They tied you to a chair near a waiting Mi-8 helicopter, interrogated you under the open sky like a spectacle. You knew they were making a point—to you and to the men watching from a distance. Through binoculars, Mason and Woods spotted you. And then Kravchenko made contact, coldly offering your life in exchange for their surrender. When Kravchenko drove the blade into your eye, you were presumed dead until Mason and Woods saved you. You completed the mission at hand, but unfortunately Dragovich escaped. Because of this, you are the Undercover Cop. You are protected against kills every night, unless you choose to use your ability to investigate someone's alignment. You win with the Town.
Earth - You are Victor Reznov. You were born in blood and fire—raised in a land torn apart by war, where loyalty to the Motherland was not a choice, but a duty. You trusted Dragovich, Kravchenko, and Steiner. You believed they fought for Russia—for the people. But they betrayed you. Used you as a test subject. Poisoned you with lies and left you to rot in Vorkuta. In that frozen hell, they thought they'd broken you. But they underestimated your will. In Vorkuta, you became more than a prisoner. You became a leader—a spark of rebellion in a place drowned in hopelessness. You inspired men who had nothing left. You gave them purpose. And then you met Mason. Together, you ignited the uprising. You fought your way through concrete and steel, tearing down the walls of your cage. And though you didn’t survive that escape, your mission did. Your death was not the end. You lived on in Mason’s mind. Your voice, your vengeance, your hatred for Dragovich, Kravchenko, and Steiner—they became his after you talked about your history. Through him, your war continued and ended. Thus, you are the 2x Time Traveler. For two nights, you may target someone and ask the host whether that player was visited by or visited anyone on a specific night (this night does not need to be the same night that the action is being submitted on). You win with the Town.
Banana - You are Major Neitsch. You are featured in only one mission, but it was a crucial mission: "WMD." Serving as the Reconnaissance Systems Officer (RSO) aboard the SR-71 Blackbird, you provide critical aerial support to the CIA's Kilo 1 team during their covert operation in the Soviet Union along with Captain Mosely. You guide them to the proper location and track/watch them from space. When a Russian convoy is nearby, you order the team to “Stop And Drop” helping them avoid detection. With your support, the mission was a success, and Jason Hudson got what he needed. As a result, you are the Even Night Tracker/Odd Night Watcher. On even nights, you may target a player and learn who they visited. On odd nights, you may target a player and learn who visited them. You win with the Town.
If anything we should have 4 investigatives this game since we have more players.
I don't see a vanillaizer targetting Shining. Which imo means either Lunatic is the Vanillaizer and is scum and was forced onto WF or another scum Vanillaizer targeted WF or WF is scum and lying. Him going to shining instead is bizarre to me, it means we would be dealing with a busdriver/redirector on top of a magnet and a lightning rod as he claims to have targeted Luna.
This means that Mikal would have moved WF's lightning rod onto himself since his action resolved first. The question is how a redirector or bus driver would resolve.
I feel like from scum WF's perspective claiming to have the role he did and that he used it on Luna felt safe in the mason PM. It meant that the vanillaizer could have targetted him or Luna, and it also meant that he also wouldn't have to explain future night actions as he could have claimed to be vanilla from then on out. From a town WF perspective, why on earth would scum busdrive Luna and Shining? Why would they redirect WF to Shining of all people?
Tbh the more I hurt my brain thinking about this the worst it makes WF look.
RexFavilla wrote:
I targeted Luna during the NP. I thought, as a result, that I had drawn off roles that were used against Luna. Based on your Tracker result, that was incorrect. Instead, my target was somehow changed to Shining.
Since Mikal used his Magnet on Luna and directed him to me, if we're buying Luna's claim, he would have hid behind me with his Compulsive Hider despite targeting you.
So Pie just confirmed to me that Mikal's hypothetical magnet role would process BEFORE Whiteflame's lightning rod, and that a vanillaizer would process after both. Asking about other roles and trying to map this out right now.
That is consistent with how Pie told me the order of operations would play out.
Mikal's role lines up exactly with the mind controller role from that game:
Mharman - You are Nikita Dragovich. You are a ruthless Soviet officer who stays in the shadows, manipulating global events during the Cold War. In the game, you are seen using mind control—specifically the “numbers program”—to Mason into a sleeper agent, aiming to weaponize his mind for your own goals. While people may think they’re in control, Dragovich is always one step ahead, pulling the strings from behind the scenes. Thus, you are the Mind Controller/Ninja. Each night, you may choose to control someone's action. You will learn their role, and be able to choose a new target. Alternatively, you may choose to be immune from Tracker/Watcher like roles. You win with the Mafia.
Just lynch him bruh
WAIT. If Mikal's action resolved first, and he targeted Luna, he should have visited himself. So this all depends on when redirectors and busdrivers resolve.
RexFavilla wrote:
I don't see a vanillaizer targetting Shining. Which imo means either Lunatic is the Vanillaizer and is scum and was forced onto WF or another scum Vanillaizer targeted WF or WF is scum and lying. Him going to shining instead is bizarre to me, it means we would be dealing with a busdriver/redirector on top of a magnet and a lightning rod as he claims to have targeted Luna.
This means that Mikal would have moved WF's lightning rod onto himself since his action resolved first. The question is how a redirector or bus driver would resolve.
I feel like from scum WF's perspective claiming to have the role he did and that he used it on Luna felt safe in the mason PM. It meant that the vanillaizer could have targetted him or Luna, and it also meant that he also wouldn't have to explain future night actions as he could have claimed to be vanilla from then on out. From a town WF perspective, why on earth would scum busdrive Luna and Shining? Why would they redirect WF to Shining of all people?
Tbh the more I hurt my brain thinking about this the worst it makes WF look.
I can only speak to what happened, not the end result. A Bus Driver is the likeliest means by which my target was changed, especially if I was the target of a Vanillaizer (doubt scum would hit me with a Redirector on top of the Vanillaizer). If Luna is the Vanillaizer, then it’s more plausible a Redirector also used their role on me, not knowing I’d be turned Vanilla.
The only other explanations I can think of are that you are scum (unlikely for reasons I’ve already mentioned) or that your target was changed to someone else, though no one has claimed to visit Shining so that doesn’t offer any options as to whom that could be.
I can’t help if you scumread me because the target of my action doesn’t match your result, all I can do is surmise how it happened. If it comes off sounding like a long shot, I don’t blame you.
I got a different answer from pie initially about order of ops. Clarifying with him.
Also i am strongy for casey due to utility but if 3 people are shoving me (bullish and luna included)
I will go bullish since more people are there. Strictly to save my ass and play to my wincon.
Casey is the correct choice but if we are going to a 1v1. Potentially town v town, I will shamelessly vote that way because bullish very likely could be scum. Thats not the correct lynch for today though. Verifying Casey's results is the correct move
But if we are going to do a 1v1, then will default there since its not me
RexFavilla wrote:
WAIT. If Mikal's action resolved first, and he targeted Luna, he should have visited himself. So this all depends on when redirectors and busdrivers resolve.
Second he being Whiteflame. If what Mikal and WF says happened there really should be no way he visited Shining. So the only options to explain vanillaizer is:
Luna is Vanillaizer
Other Vanillaizer targetted WF
WF is lying
Only way to explain WF visiting Shining is:
WF being redirected to shining (I think this would depend on order of operations to be possible as well, and if the ooo does not support this it could only be true if Mikal is lying)
Shining and WF being busdriven (depending on order of operations - but this would mean someone would have to target Shining with the vanillaizer so I would rule this out as he didn't soft any power roles)
WF is lying.
So we have the two possible conclusions:
Once I get feedback, I think it might be best to lynch within these three. Depending on what Pie says about Ooo, it could be that WF could only be town if Mikal is scum so it's a 1:1.
Lynch mikal bro trust
It's also possible I was redirected but I think that's a long shot. I don't think a busdriving happened because that would mean they would have had to target Shining with the vanillaizer which makes no sense to me.
Mikal had the wrong ooo in his post, which is a bit sus. But I find his overall behavior more town than WF. And Luna is in the dreamer POE.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Casey_Risk (2/6): Thoth (p#121), Mikal (p#269)
Mikal (2/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185)
Bullish (1/6): Helz (p#287)
Not Voting (6): Casey_Risk, Lunatic (p#155), Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, whiteflame
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 15 hours.
With that long left I think I will sleep on this and ISO all three tomorrow.
I think pie may have goofed something. When he potentially slipped about the bus driver. He gave me a diff ooo.
Im pressing him about it now
RexFavilla wrote:
RexFavilla wrote:
WAIT. If Mikal's action resolved first, and he targeted Luna, he should have visited himself. So this all depends on when redirectors and busdrivers resolve.
Second he being Whiteflame. If what Mikal and WF says happened there really should be no way he visited Shining. So the only options to explain vanillaizer is:
Luna is Vanillaizer
Other Vanillaizer targetted WF
WF is lying
Only way to explain WF visiting Shining is:
WF being redirected to shining (I think this would depend on order of operations to be possible as well, and if the ooo does not support this it could only be true if Mikal is lying)
Shining and WF being busdriven (depending on order of operations - but this would mean someone would have to target Shining with the vanillaizer so I would rule this out as he didn't soft any power roles)
WF is lying.
Largely agree up to the Bus Driver. To be specific, it would have to be Luna and Shining that were Bus Driven for things to work out the way they did, not me and Shining (I still would’ve been seen visiting Luna).
I don’t really get the assumption that my being redirected in any fashion puts the lie to Mikal’s claim, either. You say this a few times in this post and I don’t get it. I think you’re assuming that the Magnet works in both directions, which is not accurate. Luna’s night actions would be redirected to me by it, not the other way around.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Casey_Risk (2/6): Thoth (p#121), Mikal (p#269)
Mikal (2/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185)
Bullish (1/6): Helz (p#287)
Not Voting (6): Casey_Risk, Lunatic (p#155), Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, whiteflame
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 15 hours.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Casey_Risk (2/6): Thoth (p#121), Mikal (p#269)
Mikal (2/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185)
Bullish (1/6): Helz (p#287)
Not Voting (6): Casey_Risk, Lunatic (p#155), Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, whiteflame
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 14 hours.
Okay pie confirmed my ooo
He is just saying it wrong
Told me the magnet and redirect would be overtaken by the rod
Meaning I would off but I would not resolve. Wf would pull me to him
I’m going to be busy for part of the evening, so I’m going to put my vote down for now and come back to discuss it more later. The long and short of it is that I think it’s likely there is one scum between Bullish and Casey. I’m torn between a behavioral scum read on Bullish and a desire to get info from Casey’s flip.
At least for now, though, I’m leaning Bullish. I’ll be back on tonight.
VTL: Bullish
Told him that makes no sense with how hes saying first and second
He said thats everyone else's problem
VTL: Mikal
Still busy hopefully can post more tonight, but if its a 1 v 1 with him and bullish I choose him.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Sigh if this is the 1v1. This needs to be casey
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Mikal (3/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185), Lunatic (p#326)
Casey_Risk (2/6): Thoth (p#121), Mikal (p#269)
Bullish (2/6): Helz (p#287), whiteflame (p#324)
Not Voting (4): Casey_Risk, Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 14 hours.
VTL: Bullish
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Mikal (3/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185), Lunatic (p#326)
Bullish (3/6): Mikal (p#329), Helz (p#287), whiteflame (p#324)
Casey_Risk (1/6): Thoth (p#121)
Not Voting (4): Casey_Risk, Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 14 hours.
