Periodic Table of Elements Mafia DP6

I'm heading off for the night. I've got my opinions and I've stated many of them already, so here's what I'd like to see from both of you.

Who do you believe is scum right now? All I'm seeing is a lot of uncertainty. I kind of get that from Thoth because, if his claim is real, it doesn't really matter who he thinks is scum. He wins either way so long as the lynch isn't him. That being said, it's not an excuse to avoid giving clear reads, and so far, I don't know where his head is at.

For Shining, all I'm seeing is uncertainty and that doesn't help me get a read on him. He's been almost entirely unwilling to give detailed reads all game outside of the major target of any given DP, so I don't have any readwalls to use with him. I need something, and I hope these ISOs he's doing will actually provide it. With two people left in the game, it shouldn't be that hard to cover all the bases.

I think it's 70/30 of you/Shining being scum

I gotta say that whiteflame has been more abrasive and apparently frustrated this game than I've ever seen him before, and I kind of get the impression that it's leaking from scum chat, like he's pissed at Mikal getting mod-killed and Helz leaking that he had an exclusively scum role.

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

I can't say I would have just claimed it if it was my actual role and was revealed in DP4, but I'm not going to hold that against you. That being said, if Bullish had somehow survived the NP, Shining would have been lynched by now. No way he was scum.

I was kinda afraid that I would look that much scummier if I took extra time to concoct a plausible fake-claim that would keep me alive until today.

Alright.

So Helz actively gave away the exact spelling of his role with a capital letter at the front? Straight claiming an obviously scummy role like that was certainly a choice, just a shame we didn't force an explanation out of him sooner. Strikes me as odd that you didn't think to look it up.

Call me retarded if you want, but it didn't occur to me to look up that role since I was under the impression that Helz made that name up based on his justification, not that it was an accepted name for a longstanding role.

So many things about your chat and your interpretation of what was said therein are beyond me, dude. Trying to get a read off of that is damn near impossible, but I also don't think that you as scum would be so defensive of someone who was nearly certain to be the lynch last DP. That's the main point from all this in your favor, I just don't buy you so thoroughly refusing to bus as scum.

It's still unclear whether you're sussing me or just doubling down on winning this game with your role. Which is it?

At this point, I think it's more likely you than Shining, but, given my track record of gutreads this game, that's almost evidence that Shining is scum lmao. Yes, I am trying to win, possibly by using my role.

I would love to get some insight into why you view me as scum because the only reason I've seen so far is that I trusted Mikal for too long despite a pseudo-CC and that the possibility of two redirection roles in the game is just something you feel is off. Is that it?

Quick thought: Why did they kill Bullish instead of me, knowing that I am Soldier? From my perspective, the only reason I can think of is because they were afraid Bullish could get a result that would implicate Shining or whiteflame. That's worth thinking about.

Maybe because he was very confident that Shining in particular was scum? He said so multiple times last DP.

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whiteflame (1/2): Thoth (p#6)

Not Voting (2): Shining, whiteflame

With 3 players alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 20 hours.

Kohai wrote:

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whiteflame (1/2): Thoth (p#6)

Not Voting (2): Shining, whiteflame

With 3 players alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 20 hours.

I take it this means that Kohai is watching the game and pressed the Post Vote Count button? Lmao, should that be allowed?

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whiteflame (1/2): Thoth (p#6)

Not Voting (2): Shining, whiteflame

With 3 players alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 20 hours.

Thoth wrote:

I think it's 70/30 of you/Shining being scum

Alright. Where's your read on Shining coming from? What are you considering there?

I gotta say that whiteflame has been more abrasive and apparently frustrated this game than I've ever seen him before, and I kind of get the impression that it's leaking from scum chat, like he's pissed at Mikal getting mod-killed and Helz leaking that he had an exclusively scum role.

So there at least is some kind of behavioral read in all this at least. If you'll note, I've been very publicly abrasive, specifically towards Mikal and Helz. If you think I can fake this shit, I'll take that as a compliment because I cannot see myself getting this thoroughly annoyed to make a bus look good.

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whiteflame (1/2): Thoth (p#6)

Not Voting (2): Shining, whiteflame

With 3 players alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 20 hours.

whiteflame wrote:

So many things about your chat and your interpretation of what was said therein are beyond me, dude. Trying to get a read off of that is damn near impossible, but I also don't think that you as scum would be so defensive of someone who was nearly certain to be the lynch last DP.

I've wanted to share in more detail what exactly we said, but I've been afraid of getting mod-killed like Lunatic did with his PM. I'll ask Pie how much I can share and how precisely I can share it.

I would love to get some insight into why you view me as scum because the only reason I've seen so far is that I trusted Mikal for too long despite a pseudo-CC and that the possibility of two redirection roles in the game is just something you feel is off. Is that it?

I will get back to you in more depth on that after a thorough ISO.

Maybe because he was very confident that Shining in particular was scum? He said so multiple times last DP.

Alright, I'm seriously done for the night, lack of sleep isn't helping.

Last thing I'll say is this: I'm fine with Thoth having his vote on me, and if I decide that he's town, I'll self-hammer rather than trying to convince him to go over to Shining. Town still wins.

Part of it is that there's so little to ISO from Shining that he might as well be null. My scumread on you isn't that strong, but it's, like, the scale is tipped mildly towards you being scum when there's nothing really swinging Shining one way or the other.

I would ask that nobody hammer until tomorrow evening so I can ISO, but town wins if either of you two die, so hammer away if you feel like it should be hammer time.

Alright, I'm pretty sure you are town at this point. Couple this with your thoughts on the vanilliaizer and how you are willing to self vhammer,

VTL: Thoth

I'm going to bed. I'm tired right now, but Thoth has been acting off and slipped. It has to be Thoth.

Thoth wrote:

Part of it is that there's so little to ISO from Shining that he might as well be null. My scumread on you isn't that strong, but it's, like, the scale is tipped mildly towards you being scum when there's nothing really swinging Shining one way or the other.

I get that Shining hasn’t posted much, but having an effective null read on him at this point is not the take I expected and it doesn’t help me read you at all.

I would ask that nobody hammer until tomorrow evening so I can ISO, but town wins if either of you two die, so hammer away if you feel like it should be hammer time.

And this doesn’t help, either. If you’re town, you know one of us has incentive not to hammer because of your Soldier role, while the other is sitting here questioning if you’re scum and this is a gambit to get one last mislynch. If you’re scum, you know that doing this effectively just stops any further efforts to understand your thinking. It’s not like Shining’s doing better, but come on man, there’s got to be more you can do than just wash your hands of the DP.

Shining wrote:

Alright, I'm pretty sure you are town at this point. Couple this with your thoughts on the vanilliaizer and how you are willing to self vhammer,

VTL: Thoth

I'm going to bed. I'm tired right now, but Thoth has been acting off and slipped. It has to be Thoth.

Whatever happened to that ISO you said you were doing? I saw a few posts and then a decision that largely echoes what’s already been said by me this DP. This is the first time you’ve brought up something different and it’s still based on something from this DP after expressing a lot of uncertainty over both of us in previous DPs.

I guess get some sleep man, but it’s frustrating that neither of you are making a decision easier.

Bro, I work nights. I don't really have the time or energy to comb through an entire game. I don't need to bother with say, Casey. I was bothered by how nonchalant you were with Mikal, but I remember the palpable agitation you felt last DP. And you being vanilliaised isn't some far left field play to happen. So if you are scum wp, but you seem town to me. I'm in my bed, so we can talk more when I get some sleep, okay?

Shining wrote:

Bro, I work nights. I don't really have the time or energy to comb through an entire game. I don't need to bother with say, Casey. I was bothered by how nonchalant you were with Mikal, but I remember the palpable agitation you felt last DP. And you being vanilliaised isn't some far left field play to happen. So if you are scum wp, but you seem town to me. I'm in my bed, so we can talk more when I get some sleep, okay?

Fine. I’m going to provide what thoughts I have when I get to work, but I’ll hold off on a vote until the end of my workday (5 PM EST) to give you time.

Thoth wrote:

I think it's 70/30 of you/Shining being scum

So I have to ask: do you still believe this? What incentive do I have to refuse to hammer you immediately after Shining VTL’d you if I’m scum?

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whiteflame (1/2): Thoth (p#6)

Thoth (1/2): Shining (p#44)

Not Voting (1): whiteflame

With 3 players alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 10 hours.

I've written up some pretty extensive thoughts on both of you, but considering both of you should have town locked me at this point (could literally end this game anytime I want just by voting Thoth if I'm scum), I'd rather hear your thoughts first. Shining has already said he'd provide them later.

@Thoth I'm not going to take "Shining is null because he hasn't posted enough" as an answer at this point. I've ISO'd him and I have thoughts on what he's said this game, even if there's not as much there as I'd like to use.

Shining pretty much townlocked whiteflame by voting me and not getting a quickhammer. All that's left for me to do now is imagine any scenario where whiteflame doesn't quickhammer.

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. But then why would scum!Shining vote me, knowing that?

Overthinking is a classic curse

VTL: Shining

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Shining (1/2): Thoth (p#53)

Thoth (1/2): Shining (p#44)

Not Voting (1): whiteflame

With 3 players alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 5 hours.

Thoth wrote:

Shining pretty much townlocked whiteflame by voting me and not getting a quickhammer. All that's left for me to do now is imagine any scenario where whiteflame doesn't quickhammer.

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. But then why would scum!Shining vote me, knowing that?

I don't understand the question.

From where you're sitting, if you're town, he's solid scum by POE alone.

From my perspective, he could be either.

If he's scum, he knows you're telling the truth about your role and wouldn't VTL me, which means his only choice is you.

If he's town, he didn't know either way, but determined that you were more likely to be scum out of the two of us.

At this point, it doesn't matter whether you're voting me or him. By virtue of your role, it would result in a town win either way as long as I hammer. What matters is convincing the only town confirmed player that you're town and Shining isn't. Shining has incentive to do the same comparison. I'm still waiting to hear from both of you on that front, otherwise you're leaving the entire decision up to my own analysis. It's your call if that's what you want. I'm half tempted to just flip a coin at this point.

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

Shining pretty much townlocked whiteflame by voting me and not getting a quickhammer. All that's left for me to do now is imagine any scenario where whiteflame doesn't quickhammer.

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. But then why would scum!Shining vote me, knowing that?

I don't understand the question.

From where you're sitting, if you're town, he's solid scum by POE alone.

From my perspective, he could be either.

If he's scum, he knows you're telling the truth about your role and wouldn't VTL me, which means his only choice is you.

If he's town, he didn't know either way, but determined that you were more likely to be scum out of the two of us.

At this point, it doesn't matter whether you're voting me or him. By virtue of your role, it would result in a town win either way as long as I hammer. What matters is convincing the only town confirmed player that you're town and Shining isn't. Shining has incentive to do the same comparison. I'm still waiting to hear from both of you on that front, otherwise you're leaving the entire decision up to my own analysis. It's your call if that's what you want. I'm half tempted to just flip a coin at this point.

The only possible reason I can think of why you wouldn't hammer me if you were is scum is that you have some role that counters Soldier. I guess it's possible, but extremely unlikely. So flip a coin and hammer. I am fine with that.

not counters soldier - but interacts with it in some weird way

Extremely unlikely

Yeah, go ahead, flip that coin, but do it between yourself and Shining.

How did I slip btw?

Thoth wrote:

Yeah, go ahead, flip that coin, but do it between yourself and Shining.

...The coin flip would be between you and either of us (the choice between Shining and me seems unimportant unless there's some counter to the Soldier, which I'm just going to assume there isn't - if you're Town, we win either way). You should stop assuming you're solid town to me because from where I'm sitting, you aren't. You're on one side of that coin until you give me a reason to take you off.