Periodic Table of Elements Mafia DP6

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

Yeah, go ahead, flip that coin, but do it between yourself and Shining.

...The coin flip would be between you and either of us (the choice between Shining and me seems unimportant unless there's some counter to the Soldier, which I'm just going to assume there isn't - if you're Town, we win either way). You should stop assuming you're solid town to me because from where I'm sitting, you aren't. You're on one side of that coin until you give me a reason to take you off.

What if I told you that I made up the hidden role as cover for Soldier?

The only possible reason I can think of why you wouldn't hammer me if you were is scum is that you have some role that counters Soldier. I guess it's possible, but extremely unlikely. So flip a coin and hammer. I am fine with that.

If I was scum and I had a role that somehow countered Soldier, I'd still lynch you. Game over regardless. Again, I'm solid town to both of you at this point. There is no world where I'm scum and haven't hammered you yet.

So Shining is scumlock from my perspective. That means all I can do is play defense. Any specific things from my ISO that you want to grill me about?

What if I told you that I made up the hidden role as cover for Soldier?

I would tell you you aren't doing yourself any favors. Do you think that's a reason for me to townread you? Can you give a clear set of reasons for me to townread you? A set of reasons to scumread Shining? Something, man. Anything.

Thoth wrote:

So Shining is scumlock from my perspective. That means all I can do is play defense. Any specific things from my ISO that you want to grill me about?

I have a lot of thoughts written out here about both of you. I'd love to get some analysis from you before I post it.

I would like to point out that I sussed Shining in Day 1 #496

Thoth wrote:

I would like to point out that I sussed Shining in Day 1 #496

DP1 is ages ago and the reads from then are practically useless in informing how I should see you now, not to mention your reason for sussing him at the time was that the reads were "something resembling decent" and, since then, Shining hasn't provided much in the way of reads beyond giving his thoughts on single players. This doesn't mean much of anything to me.

whiteflame wrote:

Do you think that's a reason for me to townread you? Can you give a clear set of reasons for me to townread you? A set of reasons to scumread Shining? Something, man. Anything.

Look at the reason I was scumreading Shining, though. How often do you get a good set of reads out of Shining? Don't you think the mob was feeding him something, or at least that he was reading the Cliffnotes in scumchat?

Also, I gotta say that I would do a lot of incautious things as scum, but I can't imagine many scenarios where I would have tied myself to Helz as unreservedly as I did.

Do you think that's a reason for me to townread you?

Yes, because it means that, in a sense, I breadcrumbed my role ab initio. That was just a cover to keep attention off of me until it mattered.

Or, at least, until I HOPED it would matter. I fucked myself hard by undoing all that with a Soldier claim.

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Do you think that's a reason for me to townread you? Can you give a clear set of reasons for me to townread you? A set of reasons to scumread Shining? Something, man. Anything.

Look at the reason I was scumreading Shining, though. How often do you get a good set of reads out of Shining? Don't you think the mob was feeding him something, or at least that he was reading the Cliffnotes in scumchat?

I have no idea, but again, pulling a single post from the middle of DP1 and pointing to what was probably Shining's best set of reads in the game tells me nothing. He's posted somewhat detailed reads before as both town and scum, and his vanishing from the game for long stretches and not posting full reads is also common, so it would be NAI anyway.

Aren't you supposed to be at work btw? Next time I get food poisoning, I'm blaming your Mafia addiction

Thoth wrote:

Also, I gotta say that I would do a lot of incautious things as scum, but I can't imagine many scenarios where I would have tied myself to Helz as unreservedly as I did.

That is one of the points I've found in your favor.

Yes, because it means that, in a sense, I breadcrumbed my role ab initio. That was just a cover to keep attention off of me until it mattered.

Where did you softclaim?

Thoth wrote:

Aren't you supposed to be at work btw? Next time I get food poisoning, I'm blaming your Mafia addiction

I am at work, but there's not a lot going on. I have time.

whiteflame wrote:

Where did you softclaim?

The hidden role ploy was the soft-claim. Soldier works best when kept under wraps.

Thoth has been voting WF for like a day now. If I was scum, I would have just hammered WF lmao. Thoth then decides I'm scum after being wishy washy? Like bro.

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Where did you softclaim?

The hidden role ploy was the soft-claim. Soldier works best when kept under wraps.

So pointing to the DP4 Innocent Child earlier as support for your claim was a red herring, then? And you're telling me that part of my townread on your initial claim, which was based on the element being relatively new and not "seriously studied," is gone now? I missed the part where that makes me townread you more.

Shining wrote:

Thoth has been voting WF for like a day now. If I was scum, I would have just hammered WF lmao. Thoth then decides I'm scum after being wishy washy? Like bro.

If he was actually town and the Soldier and you were scum, you'd be holding out to lynch Thoth since lynching me would net a town win. So, no, this is incorrect.

How does Soldier work again?

Notwithstanding that I moved my vote to Shining a while ago.

Shining wrote:

How does Soldier work again?

This has to be a ploy for towncred. Surely Mikal and Helz told you that Soldier means town wins if it's them and one scm alive.

Shining wrote:

How does Soldier work again?

At least based on one of Pie's previous games, it works like this:

"Thus, you are the Soldier. If you are the last living Townie, the Town will win."

whiteflame wrote:

So pointing to the DP4 Innocent Child earlier as support for your claim was a red herring, then? And you're telling me that part of my townread on your initial claim, which was based on the element being relatively new and not "seriously studied," is gone now? I missed the part where that makes me townread you more.

Yeah, it was kind of a red herring, but keep in mind that Pie did still put an Innocent Child and a Soldier together in MAGA Mafia. I think the townreadable part is that I set up my claim from the start to use Soldier.

Then why would a town Thoth decide to switch votes...?

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

So pointing to the DP4 Innocent Child earlier as support for your claim was a red herring, then? And you're telling me that part of my townread on your initial claim, which was based on the element being relatively new and not "seriously studied," is gone now? I missed the part where that makes me townread you more.

Yeah, it was kind of a red herring, but keep in mind that Pie did still put an Innocent Child and a Soldier together in MAGA Mafia. I think the townreadable part is that I set up my claim from the start to use Soldier.

Lol, seriously?

So you acknowledge that the Innocent Child was a red herring, which means when you pointed to the DP4 Innocent Child from a previous game and said "see, that makes it more likely I'm telling the truth," you weren't just actively lying, but proving that you'd looked back to that previous game to find extra reasons to justify your lie as more likely to be town. You're also breezing past the fact that you added an element to your justification that wasn't real, and considering that justification was part of the reason I was townreading your claim, that's a problem.

As for why this is "townreadable," I only have your word that you set up your claim from the start. You've given me no evidence to show that you knew you were the Soldier back in DP1 or anytime before DP4. So explain to me how this makes you more town to me now. I'd love to hear it.

Shining wrote:

Then why would a town Thoth decide to switch votes...?

Because your vote basically confirmed to him that I was town, though you're right that that shouldn't matter. If he's the Soldier like he says, the lynch target should be irrelevant as long as it isn't him.

So explain to me how this makes you more town to me now.

I was serving up whoppers with the intention of using Soldier. Yes, I lied my ass off repeatedly, but you can see in hindsight that it was all to maximize the possibility that my role could win the game.

Shining wrote:

Then why would a town Thoth decide to switch votes...?

Symbolism

And I remembered that previous game. I wasn't actively combing through Pie's past games to find justification.