From mafia - Game Over

VTL: Mag1cman

I’ll respond to magic in depth after my concert tonight

Wait did y'all decide to vote? Why?

Actually the better question is why did y'all not vote me? Obviously this question is directed at Mag1c since I think he voted before Luna

Meanwhile, Lunatic:

#436 Just a fast clear for no reason. I receall his defense when I asked him about this. But how do you not thyink about the possibility of Mikal being yakuza'd here?

You left out my response to this: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?page=24&comment_number=688

From my POV he could only have been the recruit. The role made perfect sense with the character plus kohai had already given pie up by association by not hammering him at the end of dp1. Town kohai goes for pie any day there, instead of just conienently dis-appearing and not responding to people's pings. I wasn't buying kohai was that dead set on rex, he just wanted a mislynch literally anywhere else but pie. With a kohai+pie scum team in mind, everyone is town except the recruit.

The rest of his DP2 is interesting to me. He's obviously swinging his dick around against Pie, but with everyone else he's cool as a cucumber. He doesn't inquire much into anyone but Pie. It feels like he doesn't feel any pressure to get his reads out before being nightkilled. Now sure Thoth and Magoroth were more likely at the time, but you always want to inquire, grill people more just in case. And he doesn't really do that.

Really doesn't make sense to hunt for a recruit when you already know the OG scum team. I said "The one thing I can agree with pie on is that we should be hunting the OG scum now, and looking into the recruits later."

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?page=20&comment_number=576

I didn't want to distract any discussion away from pie to focus on pure wifom, knowing pie is likely to sneak himself out of a lynch. At least I wasn't buying into pies fake role like you were lol.

Yes alphaing up against a scumread is Lunatic's town meta. I had him do it with me last game to get Mikal to townread him. But the fact that he doesn't really do anything like that against anyone else feels meh. It's easy to alpha up on Pie when he knows Pie is scum. Even easier when he can't add a vote to hurt Pie. And yeah he could try and speak in Pie's defense, but that would look sus. Better to just wait and see if Pie can get himself townread. Even then, he still has to secure two more mislynches.

1.I didn't "alpha up" to you last game. I even told you in the scum chat that game that we were doing weak ass distancing. At most I was just defending myself from you, it was hardly similar to my read on pie which was purely based on behavioral inconsistencies and logical inconsistencies against thoth vs kohai.

2.That doesn't explain why my read is exactly the same as it was dp1, with absolutely 0 deviance. It's almost like I am just town and been pressing the same read I had since I had to pull teeth to try and get pie lynched dp1, and no one was listening to me. Again your reads weren't consistent, so its kind of interesting you use me being right about pie as an argument that I am scum lol. Kind of damned if I do damned if I don't type of argument.

Technically true, but where's your main theory Lunatic?

What exactly are you asking? The post you linked is pretty straightforward. Nothing crazy, we all should have been suspecting a distancing play there.

 Lunatic's post to me about being confused with why Magoroth thinks he should be townread read like he's trying to lead his buddy in a direction. But Magoroth thinking he's oh so towny for that is weird

So I am buddying you, but in the very next sentence you agree with my point that it doesn't clear him?

And that leads more to Lunatic than it does to Magoroth.

And that's the exact WIFOM pie would expect people to use, which is precisely why he wouldn't do it, or why it would be a bad move.

My read on Pie's plan is that he recruited Lunatic to remove one person sussing him.

Except for I didn't ever stop sussing him lol

Lunatic calls out the potential distancing between Pie and Magoroth, helping the plan. Should Pie go down here, Lunatic has a target he can eventually make use of in a 1v4, if town agrees they are distancing.

Now you are echoing the same argument mikal made, which is funny because I've been townreading him despite that, and even saying that its highly possible that pie was attempting a last minute hail mary.

DP4 comes, and Magoroth enters without a tunnel on me. Instead, he's openminded. So Lunatic plays along. He has two ways to win. One, take advantage of my push on Mikal from last DP. Two, buddy with me against Magoroth. I've townread him up to this point. Plus, him being against Pie all game has got to be good for some towncred, right?

This arugment works all three ways for all of us lol. Doubly so for you, before you voted me.

and smooth talker Lunatic is scum Lunatic."

Dont think ive ever been called a smooth talker lol interesting take.

Mago hasn't hammered, so that's a relief. I guess it is magic. I really thought he was town too lol. Fuck me he's good.

One quick thought while I’m back reading.

It seems very likely that Pie came into DP2 fully expecting not to make it into NP2. With the Yakuza recruitment going off on NP1, they very likely planned a hard bus on Pie, and it’s very probable they paid excessive attention to optics so as to ensure the converted person wouldn’t seem scummy; in other words there’s a decent chance Pie would’ve tried to interact with their converted target in ways you wouldn’t expect scum to do

Unfortunately this doesn’t really help me much because he did this with both of you, he called Mag1c confirmed Town and he continued the 1v1 with Lunatic a bit. It is possible he was trying to frame Luna by deliberately ignoring his posts (shit like “Your mind is set anyways” etc)

Originally Posted by Magoroth on 9/5/2026 at 4:17 AM (post #1121)

One quick thought while I’m back reading.

It seems very likely that Pie came into DP2 fully expecting not to make it into NP2. With the Yakuza recruitment going off on NP1, they very likely planned a hard bus on Pie, and it’s very probable they paid excessive attention to optics so as to ensure the converted person wouldn’t seem scummy; in other words there’s a decent chance Pie would’ve tried to interact with their converted target in ways you wouldn’t expect scum to do

Unfortunately this doesn’t really help me much because he did this with both of you, he called Mag1c confirmed Town and he continued the 1v1 with Lunatic a bit. It is possible he was trying to frame Luna by deliberately ignoring his posts (shit like “Your mind is set anyways” etc)

If anything I was ignoring pies posts. He tagged me multiple times and I stopped doing the line by line thing because there is no point in arguing with scum lol

Do you find it interesting that magic wanted to put the decision to a coin toss, then out of nowhere just decides to make a deicion after a text wall? Seems he wasn't all that undecided after all. I think he was just hoping me or you would 1 v 1 each other first and make it easy for him, and when that didn't happen he got impatient and convoluted some reasons to vote me lol.

Anyways, I think the writing is on the wall here.

The only real argument to contend with seems to be paranoia that I bussed pie. But when you look at it, I really just stayed on him from my inital FOS on him dp1, nothing really changed at all. My behavior has been 100% the same because I am still town.

Magic on the other hand has changed his perspective on pie between dp1, and 2. If you are looking at behavioral differences, there is more with him then me. To vote me would be to vote be based on sheer WIFOM paranoia, which would be a pretty silly way to lose the game.

Originally Posted by Magoroth on 9/5/2026 at 1:27 AM (post #1118)

Actually the better question is why did y'all not vote me? Obviously this question is directed at Mag1c since I think he voted before Luna

I detailed it in my big post.

If if were to pick a few sticking points, here they are:

-Pie has two goals. Survive DP2, and have a teammate that can carry him the rest of the game. Lunatic is the best option. Yes, Lunatic has to bus Pie for the cred, but if Pie can convince me he’s town, then I probably lead town in townreading him. And then Lunatic doesn’t have to vote Pie. If I Pie doesn’t succeed, then Lunatic can still just bus Pie, and ride that for the rest of the game. He was more townread than you.

-And no offense to you Magoroth, but Lunatic is better at this game than you; he’s among the site’s best. Pie needs a heavy hitter. So comparing you two directly, he’s the better option.

-The behavior DP2. To me this is the most pivotal DP for comparing you two. Town behavior is such that a player will always find ways to try and be productive, because they know they *could* die in the night, even if they aren’t the likely target.

I saw it in you when reading your DP2, you thought about a tailor for a bit, pressured me with a vote, said you found Thoth completely clear, and gave many other scattered thoughts, directly talking to a good few people.

Meanwhile, Lunatic didn’t do much of that. He just kinda kicked back and said, welp Pie’s the lynch, see you boys tomorrow. Yes there was a moment when he said Mikal was town at the start of the DP, and yes he said you felt you and Pie were distancing. Even if we ignore how scummy those things were, they were *rare* moments of him doing something productive. The exception proves the pattern.

Just woke up btw, so I haven’t looked at Lunatic’s responses much yet. I’m working on responses.

Just as a reminder the DP ends at 11am US EST.

That’s two hours from now.

REMINDER: DP ends in two hours.

(I’m not losing to you going inactive and not even casting a vote. I refuse.)

Meanwhile, Lunatic didn’t do much of that. He just kinda kicked back and said, welp Pie’s the lynch, see you boys tomorrow

The only other thing we could possibly do is speculate about recruits. Kohai was dead and pie was scum by association. Your faulting me for not guessing the recruit when you yourself couldn’t even come to a decision about it until almost 2 days into lylo?

You say I do almost nothing productive; what’s more productive then being on board both scum the entire game? At least I was consistent with it.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 9:02 AM (post #1128)

Meanwhile, Lunatic didn’t do much of that. He just kinda kicked back and said, welp Pie’s the lynch, see you boys tomorrow

The only other thing we could possibly do is speculate about recruits. Kohai was dead and pie was scum by association. Your faulting me for not guessing the recruit when you yourself couldn’t even come to a decision about it until almost 2 days into lylo?

You say I do almost nothing productive; what’s more productive then being on board both scum the entire game? At least I was consistent with it.

Again, it's easy to be on Pie when:

-You know he's scum

-Switching up and townreading him would look scummy (unless the rest of town does so)

-You can't vote him, so your bussing is limited in how much it harms Pie

And you were town DP1 when scumreading Kohai. There's no points there either.

My point remains. You didn't do much to address other things going on, help town out in case you died in the night. And Magoroth did. To towncase myself a bit here, I analyzed the incentives of who every player would recruit if they were OG scum. Magoroth and I both behaved like we knew we could die. You behaved like you knew you weren't going to die.

Automated Vote Count

This system-generated vote count was posted on behalf of the main host.

Lunatic (1/2): Mag1cman (p#1108)

Mag1cman (1/2): Lunatic (p#1115)

Not Voting (1): Magoroth

With 3 players alive, the base elimination threshold is 2. Configured role modifiers may change vote power or an individual player's threshold. Day phase ends in 2 hours.

Again, it's easy to be on Pie when:

-You know he's scum

I knew he was scum dp1, it was blatantly obvious when kohai wouldn't vote for him at EOD

-Switching up and townreading him would look scummy (unless the rest of town does so)

So scum reading scum is scummy, and what, your town read on him was townie? lol okay

-You can't vote him, so your bussing is limited in how much it harms Pie

I was an active voice against him, regardless. Blame mikal for taking away my voting power. I pretty publicly said I would never support a mago lynch over pie in any circumstance, and there was always a real possibility mago was lynched there. I never considered it once.

My point remains. You didn't do much to address other things going on, help town out in case you died in the night.

Because kohai was dead, and pie was about to be lynched. Anything else is pure wifom about the recruit. If anything analyzing vote analysis and who supported him or was against him is the best thing town can do. Ironically you supporting pie before he got lynched is what town should have looked at. Wylted did, and he died. lol

 Magoroth and I both behaved like we knew we could die. You behaved like you knew you weren't going to die.

Mago was scum's mislynch target, we know that now because he hasnt hammered and is thus confirmed town, so mago was never dying. And how did you act like you knew you were going to die? Im gonna need some explanation here because this point is bad.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 1:40 AM (post #1119)

Meanwhile, Lunatic:

#436 Just a fast clear for no reason. I receall his defense when I asked him about this. But how do you not thyink about the possibility of Mikal being yakuza'd here?

You left out my response to this: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?page=24&comment_number=688

From my POV he could only have been the recruit. The role made perfect sense with the character plus kohai had already given pie up by association by not hammering him at the end of dp1. Town kohai goes for pie any day there, instead of just conienently dis-appearing and not responding to people's pings. I wasn't buying kohai was that dead set on rex, he just wanted a mislynch literally anywhere else but pie. With a kohai+pie scum team in mind, everyone is town except the recruit.

This was the defense I said I recalled. Yes, everyone is town, except the recruit. But #436, when you call Mikal "probably town," you're treating him like he couldn't be the recruit. It's TMI.

The rest of his DP2 is interesting to me. He's obviously swinging his dick around against Pie, but with everyone else he's cool as a cucumber. He doesn't inquire much into anyone but Pie. It feels like he doesn't feel any pressure to get his reads out before being nightkilled. Now sure Thoth and Magoroth were more likely at the time, but you always want to inquire, grill people more just in case. And he doesn't really do that.

Really doesn't make sense to hunt for a recruit when you already know the OG scum team. I said "The one thing I can agree with pie on is that we should be hunting the OG scum now, and looking into the recruits later."

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?page=20&comment_number=576

And I don't find this to be a towny approach. Again, townies know that they could die. So townies are going to do what analysis they can before going out. Not just for the whole Pie+Kohai thing, but also for what happens after Pie is lynched. You not wanting to look into the recruits is exactly my point. You were convinced Pie was scum, you knew he was the lynch, and yet instead of moving on and working on the next steps for town, you sat on your laurels.

I didn't want to distract any discussion away from pie to focus on pure wifom, knowing pie is likely to sneak himself out of a lynch. At least I wasn't buying into pies fake role like you were lol.

I wasn't fully buying into his role, but yes, I was noting there was a real chance he could've been town. His claimed role had matched some of his DP1 behavior. And yes, he was the obvious target for framing.

But that's only a possibility. He also had really scummy behavior around Kohai, and seemingly (in hindsight, clearly) pasted part of a post of his from scum chat. I had resolved to hammer him if someone else didn't do it. I just decided to use the rest of time in the DP to get my thoughts out before hammering.

Yes alphaing up against a scumread is Lunatic's town meta. I had him do it with me last game to get Mikal to townread him. But the fact that he doesn't really do anything like that against anyone else feels meh. It's easy to alpha up on Pie when he knows Pie is scum. Even easier when he can't add a vote to hurt Pie. And yeah he could try and speak in Pie's defense, but that would look sus. Better to just wait and see if Pie can get himself townread. Even then, he still has to secure two more mislynches.

1.I didn't "alpha up" to you last game. I even told you in the scum chat that game that we were doing weak ass distancing. At most I was just defending myself from you, it was hardly similar to my read on pie which was purely based on behavioral inconsistencies and logical inconsistencies against thoth vs kohai.

This is pedantic. We can argue about what counts as alphaing up, but the point is that you engage people directly. I only brought up last game to add to my point; it's not the point itself.

2.That doesn't explain why my read is exactly the same as it was dp1, with absolutely 0 deviance. It's almost like I am just town and been pressing the same read I had since I had to pull teeth to try and get pie lynched dp1, and no one was listening to me. Again your reads weren't consistent, so its kind of interesting you use me being right about pie as an argument that I am scum lol. Kind of damned if I do damned if I don't type of argument.

You can only switch away from Pie if the rest of town does. Otherwise, town calls you out for switching up.

I'm not saying you're scummy for pushing Pie, I'm saying I'm not giving you town credit for it. The thing I'm calling you scummy for is not doing much to explore who the recruit could be.

Technically true, but where's your main theory Lunatic?

What exactly are you asking? The post you linked is pretty straightforward. Nothing crazy, we all should have been suspecting a distancing play there.

This is the one thing you gave yes. But it's not much at all. It's just random shade at Magoroth. At a time when Pie could've easily been fake distacing with Magoroth. You didn't explore anyone else or give thoughts on anyone else until DP3. But DP2 was the towny time to do it.

 Lunatic's post to me about being confused with why Magoroth thinks he should be townread read like he's trying to lead his buddy in a direction. But Magoroth thinking he's oh so towny for that is weird

So I am buddying you, but in the very next sentence you agree with my point that it doesn't clear him?

Yes I agreed with you on that specific point, but you drawing so much attention to it to me specifically reads like buddying.

And that leads more to Lunatic than it does to Magoroth.

And that's the exact WIFOM pie would expect people to use, which is precisely why he wouldn't do it, or why it would be a bad move.

To an extent, this is valid. But then if it's a bad move, then he could do it. FMPOV, it's 50/50 whether he went for Magoroth or you, two options that I wouldn't have considered. So the WIFOM above the WIFOM is less about who doesn't seem like a good option, but more about which of the two bad options, chosen to throw town off, is more likely to carry the rest of the game. And that's you.

My read on Pie's plan is that he recruited Lunatic to remove one person sussing him.

Except for I didn't ever stop sussing him lol

Sure, but if Pie can get the rest of town to townread him, you can easily stop sussing Pie as well. It was a desperate situation for Pie.

Lunatic calls out the potential distancing between Pie and Magoroth, helping the plan. Should Pie go down here, Lunatic has a target he can eventually make use of in a 1v4, if town agrees they are distancing.

Now you are echoing the same argument mikal made, which is funny because I've been townreading him despite that, and even saying that its highly possible that pie was attempting a last minute hail mary.

Two people can have the same argument. Are you going to deny that I've had plenty of my own argments?

This is a read on Pie as much as it is on you btw. Distancing is the level one WIFOM play. Fake distancing someone is the level two play. Pie is doing everything he can to throw town off; he's not going to go for level one, he's going to go for whatever thinks is the exact level above what town is thinking. Wheh it comes to such hard distancing, it's proven that town doesn't usually think into the second level.

DP4 comes, and Magoroth enters without a tunnel on me. Instead, he's openminded. So Lunatic plays along. He has two ways to win. One, take advantage of my push on Mikal from last DP. Two, buddy with me against Magoroth. I've townread him up to this point. Plus, him being against Pie all game has got to be good for some towncred, right?

This arugment works all three ways for all of us lol. Doubly so for you, before you voted me.

My point is that what I think happened is that you were hoping Magoroth would tunnel me. And if that fails, you buddy up to me, which is why you went out of your way to point out MAgoroth's self clear attempt to me. And if that doesn't work, then it's a good old-fashioned Mexican standoff, where you can try to use you being on Pie all game for town cred (even if it's not a towny as you assert- you obviously can use try and use it to convince MAgoroth)

and smooth talker Lunatic is scum Lunatic."

Dont think ive ever been called a smooth talker lol interesting take.

Well, kinda yeah. You didn't really push or pressure or press or investigate anyone but Pie last DP. Yes there was the shot at Magoroth for potential distancing, but the exception was so rare it proves the pattern.

You've got an hour left. I trust you to make the right decision. Magic played this one as well as he could, but he tried to save pie day phase two, and tried to use shoddy reasoning around his results to paint mikal as scum. While mikal didn't do himself any favors, magic had the worst argument for lynching him out of anyone. He was willing to vote based on a coin flip yesterday, and is now coming out of nowhere with a case on me that I bussed pie, despite my logic being consistent with my dp1 logic about pie. He had to convolute a case against me because he had nothing, but was forced into making a decision because he needs a mislynch here.

If you look at wylted last day phase he was suspecting magic, which is why magic had to kill wylted going into LYLO. Magic couldn't risk that bias against him in the most critical phase of the game for scum to win.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 9:55 AM (post #1131)

Again, it's easy to be on Pie when:

-You know he's scum

I knew he was scum dp1, it was blatantly obvious when kohai wouldn't vote for him at EOD

-Switching up and townreading him would look scummy (unless the rest of town does so)

So scum reading scum is scummy, and what, your town read on him was townie? lol okay

Not saying scum reading scum is scummy. I'm saying that you shouldn't be given town cred for it, given the incentives scum Lunatic would have at the time.

You are scummy for not doing much to look into anyone else, beyond what happens after we lynch Pie.;

-You can't vote him, so your bussing is limited in how much it harms Pie

I was an active voice against him, regardless. Blame mikal for taking away my voting power. I pretty publicly said I would never support a mago lynch over pie in any circumstance, and there was always a real possibility mago was lynched there. I never considered it once.

My point remains. You didn't do much to address other things going on, help town out in case you died in the night.

Because kohai was dead, and pie was about to be lynched. Anything else is pure wifom about the recruit. If anything analyzing vote analysis and who supported him or was against him is the best thing town can do. Ironically you supporting pie before he got lynched is what town should have looked at. Wylted did, and he died. lol

Again, I wasn't supporting Pie. That's a blatant rewriting of the history. I was noting a possibility. If Pie had somehow flipped town, my thoughts would have been helpful to town.

And yes anything about the recruit is pure WIFOM. But you have to get into it DP3, why not get a head start DP2, in case you die in the night? Town Lunatic is confident Pie is scum, and that Pie going to be the lynch, and knows that town Lunatic could die in the night. So why not analyze the recruit then? No reason for town Lunatic not to do so.

 Magoroth and I both behaved like we knew we could die. You behaved like you knew you weren't going to die.

Mago was scum's mislynch target, we know that now because he hasnt hammered and is thus confirmed town, so mago was never dying. And how did you act like you knew you were going to die? Im gonna need some explanation here because this point is bad.

Pretending not to understand things, eh? I didn't act like I knew I was going to die, I acted like I *could* die. And I did that by delaying the DP to give out my thoughts on all the incentives on who would recruit who. I went out of my way to give my thoughts on the next steps for town, after the Pie lynch, unlike you.

And yeah no shit Mago is lock town now. But when campring the two of you that wasn't a certainty lol.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 7:08 AM (post #1123)

Do you find it interesting that magic wanted to put the decision to a coin toss, then out of nowhere just decides to make a deicion after a text wall? Seems he wasn't all that undecided after all. I think he was just hoping me or you would 1 v 1 each other first and make it easy for him, and when that didn't happen he got impatient and convoluted some reasons to vote me lol.

My thought about the coin toss was my thought at the time. It was how I felt about the situation. My wording wasn;t that I was going to flip a coin, but that I might.

#1096

If I can’t figure it out tomorrow, I am genuinely flipping a coin.

-Me

"If I can't figure it out tomorrow." The big analysis was always coming. Text wall it may be, it's not out of nowhere lol.

By far your weakest argument; it's like you're grasping for whatever you can at this point.

WE HAVE ONE HOUR LEFT WHERE TF ARE YOU

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 10:00 AM (post #1133)

You've got an hour left. I trust you to make the right decision. Magic played this one as well as he could, but he tried to save pie day phase two, and tried to use shoddy reasoning around his results to paint mikal as scum. While mikal didn't do himself any favors, magic had the worst argument for lynching him out of anyone. He was willing to vote based on a coin flip yesterday, and is now coming out of nowhere with a case on me that I bussed pie, despite my logic being consistent with my dp1 logic about pie. He had to convolute a case against me because he had nothing, but was forced into making a decision because he needs a mislynch here.

If you look at wylted last day phase he was suspecting magic, which is why magic had to kill wylted going into LYLO. Magic couldn't risk that bias against him in the most critical phase of the game for scum to win.

I had many arguments for lynching Mikal and the one you had awas one I gave too. And I stopped pressing Mikal on my results by the end of the DP, Wylted proved that wrong.

I did not try to save Pie, I was exploring possibilites.

And your consistency on Pie means nothing when scum Lunatic has to be bussing Pie there, unless Pie can get himself townread by the rest of town.

And that last part is part of why Lunatic and Pie opted to kill Wylted over you.

@mago for the last sentrence of that last post.

Bottom line:

If I were really trying to save Pie as Lunatic alleges, I wouldn't be exploring possibilities. I would be pinging everyone in the thread with all the reasons Pie must absolutely be town. I would be pinging everyone, telling them to vote Magoroth.

Instead, I didn't vote Magoroth, nor did I try to convince town do to so.

#1124 #1133

"writing is on the wall"

"did what he could"

"I trust you to make the right decision"

Obv theatrics to buddy with you btw

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/4/2026 at 1:45 AM (post #1098)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/3/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #1095)

When does the day phase end?

sept 5th at 11am

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

40 minutes left

This was the defense I said I recalled. Yes, everyone is town, except the recruit. But #436, when you call Mikal "probably town," you're treating him like he couldn't be the recruit. It's TMI.

I mean if you really want to pick apart that with semantics, you could spin it however you want. I am not willing to account for the recruit target over hunting for the known scum member. I explained why I town read mikal for his claim accuracy to the role, plus how the role doesn't make sense being on the scum team. He could only be a recruit if scum, was my point.

And I don't find this to be a towny approach. Again, townies know that they could die. So townies are going to do what analysis they can before going out. Not just for the whole Pie+Kohai thing, but also for what happens after Pie is lynched. You not wanting to look into the recruits is exactly my point. You were convinced Pie was scum, you knew he was the lynch, and yet instead of moving on and working on the next steps for town, you sat on your laurels.

All this talk about me not finding the recruit, but you waffled about making a decision for 2 days into LYLO about the recruit. You can't act like you weren't pretending to be phased by the Yakuza lynch then all of a sudden act holier than thou about others not being able or willing to solve it immediately. My focus was pie, who I was pretty damn confident was scum. It's not in my hands to solve the whole game by dp2, and if I died as a vanilla town got 100% value from my role.

I wasn't fully buying into his role, but yes, I was noting there was a real chance he could've been town. His claimed role had matched some of his DP1 behavior. And yes, he was the obvious target for framing.

But that's only a possibility. He also had really scummy behavior around Kohai, and seemingly (in hindsight, clearly) pasted part of a post of his from scum chat. I had resolved to hammer him if someone else didn't do it. I just decided to use the rest of time in the DP to get my thoughts out before hammering.

I mean at that point you probably thought pie wasn't worth saving anymore. You probably initially wanted to vote with him thinking there was a real shot at getting a mislynch that you could explain your way out of, but when you saw the crowd wasn't leaning that way, pussied out.

This is pedantic. We can argue about what counts as alphaing up, but the point is that you engage people directly. I only brought up last game to add to my point; it's not the point itself.

But I just proved that your example of last game isn't the same thing as what you are attempting to accuse me of now, showing it's a completely convoluted point.

You can only switch away from Pie if the rest of town does. Otherwise, town calls you out for switching up.

I'm not saying you're scummy for pushing Pie, I'm saying I'm not giving you town credit for it. The thing I'm calling you scummy for is not doing much to explore who the recruit could be.

You didn't know who the recruit was either until literally yesterday, so what did "exploring" do? If anything exploring the recruit seems more like setting up mislynches. Like you did with mikal lol

This is the one thing you gave yes. But it's not much at all. It's just random shade at Magoroth. At a time when Pie could've easily been fake distacing with Magoroth. You didn't explore anyone else or give thoughts on anyone else until DP3. But DP2 was the towny time to do it.

Because you say it is? Hard dis-agree. Im not divulging in WIFOM that could distract from a scum lynch when there is plenty of time to do that in further day phases. If I die, that's in the rest of towns hands. Town aren't expected to try and solve the whole game days in advance in the off chance they die, in fact they rarely do.

Yes I agreed with you on that specific point, but you drawing so much attention to it to me specifically reads like buddying.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything, because I genuinely did not understand how he was town confirmed off of that, and maybe you picked up on something with it I didn't. Hardly buddying.

To an extent, this is valid. But then if it's a bad move, then he could do it. FMPOV, it's 50/50 whether he went for Magoroth or you, two options that I wouldn't have considered. So the WIFOM above the WIFOM is less about who doesn't seem like a good option, but more about which of the two bad options, chosen to throw town off, is more likely to carry the rest of the game. And that's you.

I mean the whole thing is complete wifom, its just the wifom you choose to believe, because it supports your narrative. I hard disagree that I am the best recruit target in this scenario. Also me and pie have very different mafia playstyles. You on the other hand work way better with him than I do, and are probably one of the best scum players on the site. I can see scum pie recruiting you all day.

Sure, but if Pie can get the rest of town to townread him, you can easily stop sussing Pie as well. It was a desperate situation for Pie.

I mean by that logic, he kind of did get close to lynching mago, a couple people mentioned supporting him. I stayed true to lynching him that whole time. You didn't. You are accidentally making the case for yourself being scum here.

Two people can have the same argument. Are you going to deny that I've had plenty of my own argments?

This is a read on Pie as much as it is on you btw. Distancing is the level one WIFOM play. Fake distancing someone is the level two play. Pie is doing everything he can to throw town off; he's not going to go for level one, he's going to go for whatever thinks is the exact level above what town is thinking. Wheh it comes to such hard distancing, it's proven that town doesn't usually think into the second level.

Pie was the heaviest suspect at the end of day one, and the pressure picked RIGHT back up at start of dp2. It got worse when thoth revealed he was guilty. If you have a guilty on you, and your only argument was "I was framed" you know you are cooked. Getting a mislynch off on literally anyone before you die is the ONLY play pie can make.

My point is that what I think happened is that you were hoping Magoroth would tunnel me. And if that fails, you buddy up to me, which is why you went out of your way to point out MAgoroth's self clear attempt to me. And if that doesn't work, then it's a good old-fashioned Mexican standoff, where you can try to use you being on Pie all game for town cred (even if it's not a towny as you assert- you obviously can use try and use it to convince MAgoroth)

I think you were doing the exact same thing for most of the day phase. Difference was I genuinely town read both of you, and made a giant mega post explaining possibilities of you guys being both town and motives you could have had for being scum. You just waffled and claimed to be willing to do a random vote, before randomly coming up with a mega case on me. This was actually YOUR strategy, but you caved to the pressure and were worried after mago mentioned lynching you, so knew your options were limited.

Well, kinda yeah. You didn't really push or pressure or press or investigate anyone but Pie last DP. Yes there was the shot at Magoroth for potential distancing, but the exception was so rare it proves the pattern.

I had found both scum off of behavior already. I townread everyone else. Even you admittedly. You played an amazing scum game.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/5/2026 at 8:08 AM (post #1135)

My thought about the coin toss was my thought at the time. It was how I felt about the situation. My wording wasn;t that I was going to flip a coin, but that I might.

#1096

Horrible thing to ever do in LYLO, but you know that. The scummy part is saying that, just to come up with a mega case on someone a few hours later lol. Shows you had to convolute reasons to scum read a townie, when you were literally just moments before saying you town read both players so much that you thought the best bet was a coin toss gamble.

By far your weakest argument; it's like you're grasping for whatever you can at this point.

Your entire case is that I am scummy for lynching scum. Talk about grasping at straws mate.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/5/2026 at 8:16 AM (post #1139)

#1124 #1133

"writing is on the wall"

"did what he could"

"I trust you to make the right decision"

Obv theatrics to buddy with you btw

I mean he's town confirmed. Obviously I am buddying with the confirmed townie. lol

Not saying scum reading scum is scummy. I'm saying that you shouldn't be given town cred for it, given the incentives scum Lunatic would have at the time.

You are scummy for not doing much to look into anyone else, beyond what happens after we lynch Pie.;

I've already addressed this; hunting recruits over confirmed scum just causes confusion, and gives pie a chance to escape being lynched. Again. I was pretty defeated that he escaped the first time. You were also part of that motha fucka.

Pretending not to understand things, eh? I didn't act like I knew I was going to die, I acted like I *could* die. And I did that by delaying the DP to give out my thoughts on all the incentives on who would recruit who. I went out of my way to give my thoughts on the next steps for town, after the Pie lynch, unlike you.

WIFOMing about yakuza results does nothing but set up potential mislynches, it in no way shows you wanting to "help" after death, it's especially a self defeating point to make when you didn't die lol.