The fact that he didn't outright counterclaim Earth is also suspect - doing so would set up a 1v1 in town's mind
(Rex, post 17)
Well, no? Hider to me isn't really a full protective like Jailkeeper is. Town!Pie has an incentive to not claim there in that he narrows the POE for the investigative even further than it already was.
Interesting fact: Pie has Mentioned me 9 times since this phase has started.
I'll be looking things over now...
What's your role justification, Rex?
And that is... exactly what I was afraid of. Right.
Pie hardclaim, then we go from there, I suppose.
Ergh, this day feels like it went too fast. I wish we had gotten a claim out of Vader. Or maybe Pie.
Does scum!Shining really claim an action like that which seems so dubious and then double back on it by FOSing Pie?
I did mean Neighborizer, not Masonizer, sorry.
I suppose it is plausible that a protective role could see Shining getting wagoned and say "I don't need to claim, he's going to die anyway."
Does seem plausible. Can't wait for that explanation in endgame.
How confident are you in Rex's role being Town?
My main concern is that if it's something like a Masonizer, it could maybe be:
Monroe Fuches, Barry's old family friend since Barry's childhood and a former military cook, who groomed him for his post-military career as a hitman. He is cowardly, manipulative, and self-centered, refusing to believe he has been anything but good to Barry despite consistently abusing him and dragging him back into a life of crime to serve his own personal interests.
In the sense that the character seems to be a "contact" of sorts, which could be a Masonizer, and is evil-coded. I would like to believe that whatever it is is a Town role because that would make forming the POE a lot easier, but I'm still unsure.
Could it really be as easy as Rex/Shining and Rex openly defended Shining as one of his... five-ish posts this phase? I have doubts.
Rex/Shining/Vader feels like the "easy" POE here.
But I also don't think Mafia games are ever allowed to be easy, unless I'm wolfing.
That being said, probably worthwhile to review that Wryly has actively been participating and that I'm not just being drawn in by the ~raw charisma~ on display. The post I just quoted is an instance of that but I want to look a little more.
I do think Wryly is at least slightly unpaired from Shining here, not because of the "how did you calculate that?" insistence, which could just be theater, but I microread p98 as unpairing in that
While it's possible Jim Moss could be a fake claim -- he doesn't seem like a central character for the first several seasons -- I doubt scum would want to claim a protective role since one is probably already in the game. I'll town pile Shining for the moment.
Doesn't read how you would typically want to defend a partner or bus a partner. If you're trying to bus, you diminish it by saying you're town piling them. If you're trying to defend, you don't want to bring up that it fits oddly into the characters, because Lunatic is dead and other people might not even notice that.
FMPOV it feels like today might end up being me or Shining and I'm not entirely certain which is the better chop. Probably Shining, but I'm paranoid that he could just be Town That's A Bit Sloppy With Their Role and I might end up being dead meat with the negative utility role in LYLO.
The fact that nobody has said "I'm a protective role too, so I soft CC him!" is what's giving me real doubt here.
Keep going back and forth on Vader, can't decide if his uncertainty on me today is a realistic train of thought or him just trying to leave me open as an opportunistic chop in case there's no consensus.
The FOS on Pie in p111 is interesting because it somewhat reads less of a FOS and more like the weighing of a 50/50. Maybe the word is used differently here? The way it's described makes it seem like he would be far less okay with a Pie lynch compared to any of the other three, he gives two reasons why scum!Pie doesn't work as well, but he still lumps Pie into the "I'm fine with any of these 4" pile.
Might just be messy town, though.
UNVOTE
I don't believe WF would discard Barry from the game, and frankly it would surprise me if the main character was on the Mafia side of the theme split. This means that, unfortunately, game is hard.
Question, Shining- why didn't you try to roleblock me? It's clear that you did and still do suspect me, and with my claim, I likely would have carried the nightkill, if scum, since being seen wouldn't be incriminating. If you thought Pie was a PR, blocking him would have cost his action as well.
Potentially, if that's realistic for WF to do. But my impression of Whiteflame is that he wouldn't hide an aspect of a role because that could be considered semi-bastard, but I don't have much (any? I can't recall.) experience with his hosting.
To me, the text at the very least could suggest "This person's role seems bad, but it's actually even worse because of what other roles exist in the game."
VTL Thoth
I can't remember much from this, honestly. I think Shining's behavior at EOD1 and SOD seems town-slanted, but I do have one nit to pick:
His reasoning for being concerned about Pie swapping to me does make some sense- although it might just be a philosophy difference- but for this:
I think Town!Pie realizes that losing a miller would be preferable to losing a dreamer report
It's not as if Pie knew what Kohai was besides being "confirmable." He might have just ascertained that it was a possible bluff (which would have been correct) and ignored it, or thought that it might have been role and not alignment indicative and ignored it.
I also behaviorally scumread Kohai.
You said earlier something along the lines of "Kohai is always scummy," no? What made this different?
Because there claim is literally not anything close to a miller as they suggested.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I think it's very close to a Miller- I might have even called it a "Visit Miller" if my uncreative mind were hosting this. A Miller looks guilty to Cops, my role looks "guilty" to Watchers/Lookouts/Stalkers.
I'll grill him for .ore information regarding his claim,
Not sure what more you want out of me on that front, to be frank. I've given you the role, character, and justification, and explained why I was initially hesitant to share it... even if that was, in hindsight, a shaky reason.
"You are informed that someone’s role is a greater nuisance than they know."
I'm here theorizing that there's specifically a Ninja and Watcher such that if a Watcher is watching the nightkill, they would only see me. Not particularly enjoying the idea.
Although I am curious if anyone else thinks that could apply to them.
Suddenly, I understand what Pie meant about Kohai.
I can prove my role tomorrow please don't kill me :3
I can also prove my role tomorrow.
I can already foresee at least one "oops, I got roleblocked" tomorrow.
Not buying that. You can ask the mod questions in DMs.
Ya, I don’t think I buy this argument. Could’ve just as easily been a townie asking that in PM as well
Scum has an incentive to keep that information secret if the answer is "Yes." Town has incentive for everyone to know.
Though I grant that it could have been asked in scum chat before hand and then asked here for credit. That's why I said it was a horrible angleshoot that I don't even fully believe. I'm much more interested in his character claim, frankly.
Kohai feels like a bit of a question mark because there is a town motive to do what they did- deciding that even though you have a townread, they wouldn't be a huge loss even if they were really Town. But there's also a scum motive of "Oh well it looks like Town is settling on this so I'll join in to nudge it a bit more."
The thing is, would scum just have their partner do it so that if I got lynched, Kohai could ride a bit of "see, I told you" cred? The flip-flop is very noticeable and easy to call out, considering me, Pie, and Lunatic all did so.
Kohai is scummy af but he’s always scummy af.
Is it even worth it to ask what you mean by this?
My main reasoning here is that it's very easy to have a thought of "This day is quiet, that sucks" and say that out loud, but it's another thing to actually do something about it and push game into a different state. And knowing that I'm Town, pushing the game out of the state of "idk Ceru is policy chop" is a townsided move.
It's admittedly a bit self-centered, but there's not a whole lot to go off beyond that at the moment.
Why wait until later to do a full claim?
I had a hopeless dream that my role supports the existence of a Watcher/Lookout/Stalker so if one were to claim I would be able to back it up essentially.
Which is a bit silly, I suppose, but a man can dream.
Granted, Pie (and maybe Wryly?) presumably has an expectation to fulfill regarding activity, I assume. Still, I think Pie would be pushing for me with a smidge more force if he was wolfing and I was meant to be today's mischop.
Wryly has a writing style that I enjoy. Going to be annoying to read for alignment.
I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but my Town looks something like Pie, Wryly, Lunatic right now. The first two, I think they have been advancing the game when scum could be kicking back and relaxing a bit, and I believe Lunatic softed his character and I angleshoot Post #103 as something that would have been asked in scum chat.
Lord, I have a horrific angleshoot, but I don't even know if I believe it.
