Leaning

Trumps plan to force homeless into rehabilitation?

This?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-trumps-order-on-clearing-encampments-forced-hospitalization-means-for-the-unhoused

Well, I imagine most people don't like the homeless laying around on their sidewalks and street corners,

Leaving trash and needles everywhere,

Tarps and tents.

Situation get's ‘really bad in some cities I’ve heard.

. . . I suppose an 'ideal, could be a homeless shelter, or maybe boarding houses, , ,

But I imagine some homeless individuals feel 'more uncomfortable in some homeless shelters.

Lack of freedom of movement, being 'forced around some other homeless individuals they might know better to avoid. Some homeless ‘can be unpleasant, crazy, or thieves. (I’m not saying all or even a majority)

Course, homeless shelter/boarding house would 'ideally be optional I suppose.

Could have facilities such as running water, showers, laundry, maybe a kitchen?

Internet? Mail?

. . . Course then, it becomes in a sense a ‘pushing away of homeless from the ’normal community into a ghetto, kind of.

Laundry mat from my home town, owner gives the homeless individuals free tokens to do their laundry there.

. . .

There's also a difference between the temporarily homeless, the lifestyle homeless, and the crazy.

Some homeless shelters might work better as 'temporary living locations, based around getting the individual back to regular housing.

Some homeless (Crazy) just won't ‘work well with a homeless shelter, same way they don’t work with regular society. Can't 'trust them with some amenities maybe.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I'm also not sure the plan works without limits and/or everyone enacting it.

Some 'cities become known as friendly to the homeless, become overrun, as other places unfriendly to the homeless force the homeless out.

But even ‘welcoming cities can only handle ’so ‘many people, before they’d have to say get out. Thus the 'everyone thought.

Are guns or people the issue?

I think what the issue is can vary, though in a ‘sense I think ’people are always the issue, it can be easier to remove the guns, than the people.

I remember when they ‘suicide proofed’ all the rooms of the barracks I was living in.

Removed any hooks, bars, and fastenings from the walls.

Probably some BS project by someone trying to claim they were doing something, so they could up their performance review paper.

Or maybe just wasting some money to not have extra money in the budget, then have that money taken away.

. . . I mean 'technically, more opportunities, means more deaths, I think.

But people have a 'glut of opportunities in life.

. . .

Some more obvious than others though, maybe.

When one has a hammer, one wants to use it sometimes.

I imagine removing guns in Tombstone, Arizona might have been effective.

Don't really have the 'time to change the people drifting through town.

And though there may be violence, ideally it'd be with less deadly force.

Though if people still carried knives, could still be a bit dangerous.

I'd 'imagine some people find it easier to shoot a gun, than to struggle in melee with a knife.

Though maybe knives make a person more desperate and hot headed when 'in such a fight. Panicked.

. . . . . . . .

I find a lot of knife laws pretty annoying though,

Such as no switchblades, 'bah, I can still open my folding knife one handed with a flick of my wrist.

Blasted over regulation.

If we remove all guns, are we safer or in the same condition?

In a some places, safer I'd imagine.

In some other places, maybe less safe.

Condition one ends up depends on the place maybe.

I think guns were 'most useful in frontier cities, defending against bank robbers and raiders.

Being able to hunt easier, and defend against wild animals.

They've seen 'some use defending stores against riots.

I wonder if thieves and house invaders are not more bold when citizens are less armed.

. . .

And then there's the weapon itself, I ‘really don’t see guns as 'that dangerous, when thinking of murderers and such.

'Lot of ways to kill individuals and masses of people, lot of ways that would be hard to regulate.

‘I think guns have a sort of pop culture phenomenon, and maybe just the most ‘currently ’obvious option to the deranged.

Is any one less dangerous without a firearm?

Well, I wouldn't want an idiot holding one around me.

‘Could shoot me by accident if they don’t practice gun safety.

And there 'is something to be said for when one has a hammer. Can be easier to act.

Same reason someone trying to quit a vice, might not keep the vice in their house.

Why is there a misconception of gun violence?

Because it can be a useful bogeyman,

People like having something to rail against.

. . . Or something to rail 'for I suppose.

Statistics in general though, I think are just difficult.

What could be an improvement of gun ownership or guns themselves?

Implementing a number of laws as they 'currently stand.

Social awareness, community activity, participating and reaching out in a friendly way, that gun owners take part and pride in their guns and safe and responsible use of them.

Local gun club maybe, with expectations and rules.

. . .

It's odd in a way, to look at guns going the way of swords, though I suppose the frontier era is long past.

And so too the small arms war era,

And the worry of frequent foreign invasions and local war.

. . America anyhow.

@SatanLucy #20

The concept that I have free will (Practically speaking), even in difficult situations, is something I try 'hard to remember, and regret when I don't.

Though I assume there are arguments for the practicality of predestination as well.

Regardless of what will be, what I will, influences what will be.

Though I may have to do 'something, even nothing, and though I have to do what I will do, I do not know that I have to act X, until I have acted X, and even then, had I thought it through, I might not have done X.

. . . Though I suppose it might end up a bit of a paradox. . . The world pushes us towards ends, yet we are of this world ourselves, and push the world to ends.

@fauxlaw #21

I don't know if any of us believed it, but someone in the family joked about watermelon seeds in our stomachs growing into melons,

Probably after watching a Rugrats episode.

@Misterio #22

R. . . R. . R. . . Well, that 'is tricky. Most I can currently do is kind of gurgle in the back of my throat.

I was glad I grew up in a place with lots of trees and plants. Too much of other people's property in the big city, and too many people.

For  a month or a week, sometime between 1st and 4rth grade I think,

I had a revenge notebook, for petty slights, called for completely equal retribution. Little acts, if someone repetitively stepped on the back of my shoe while we kids were walking in a line, it'd be a note to 'someday walk on the back of their shoe.

We have to be even! Heh, kind of thinking. . .

I think I would have been satisfied with getting even. Didn't need the people to know 'why.

My Dad found the notebook, told me I couldn't have such a notebook and shouldn't write such things down. I forget the details of what he said.

Impact later in life, was a lack of assumption that other people would respect my privacy.

As well as wondering, why didn't I make a notebook for good deeds, reciprocate those?

Now later in life, I find irritation that evil unto evil cannot be good by my measure of existence.

I think people are as they are from nature and nurture. People cannot help but act as by what they are, as Marcus says.

Causation has led us to our situations.

Course, as Marcus does, I often ignore such conclusions when it comes to 'my 'actions. Wanting to be 'better, and exert my Ego and Will to not be a bad person. Sometimes.

. . It annoys me though at times, that I am robbed of wrath. No one is your enemy kind of thinking (Vinland).

If one wants 'good, then 'all are deserving of kindness, forgiveness, help. So much as we can give it.

There 'is something to be said for self defense, not being stepped on like a mat, protecting others in the community.

Just ought not be having cruelty, nor vengeance pleasure.

I suppose we might want others to 'know the revenge, out of damaged Ego.

When hurt, we sometimes feel 'lessened, feel rage and wrath in an attempt at control, a statement of 'control not powerlessness helpless.

Our Ego calls out, we matter, we are important. And so people spaz and froth, rage out of weakness, helplessness. Blindly lash out. Even more unjustly than their own treatment.

“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.”

- Jesus

“When you see someone who is worthy, concentrate on becoming their equal. When you see someone who is unworthy, use this as an opportunity to look within yourself.”

- Confucius

“The best revenge is to be unlike him who preformed the injury.”

 - Marcus Aurelius

I was looking forward to more President Garrison, alas, not to be it seems.

And I found the Canadian Trump pretty funny.

I didn't find ‘this rendition of Trump Season 27 ’as funny,

I'm not sure 'why.

I think people are making more of it than it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZcqaolcjUI
The Cult of Dionysus ✨ The Orion Experience
 

Personally, if I was to start a religion, I think the 'best methods are money, centralizing power, indoctrination, and isolation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh_movement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

Course, one can argue there is a difference between a ‘religion and a ’cult, if only size and general acceptance by society at large.

. . .

Isolation, might keep a cult, but if one wants to 'expand, there one might need outward pressure as well.

. . . After all Christianity spread, though it was small in beginning, but on ‘other hand, it was tied to a ’larger religion.

Judaism, is more self contained though, I think traditionally, not so much seeking to convert others.

But shows how a religion/nation can grow without 'absorbing too much from others, instead focusing on population and increase of territory.

Ever hear of the Shakers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers

Wikipedia claims "By mid-century, new federal laws were passed denying control of adoption to religious groups."

But I couldn't say, not being familiar with history or current adoption laws.

How smart can something without hands or thumbs 'be?

I suppose they ‘could develop to be ’really smart, if they don't have the methods humans do, to pass on knowledge.

Such as writing.

Have to develop generational memory.

But I think survival doesn't niacinate such, so they at most get stuck with 'some intelligence at most.

More humans developed, more ‘we needed intelligence, well, until we develop machines to think ’for us.

. . .

I wonder how far a society 'could develop underwater.

Such an alien environment for humans, most of our science focused on land and air.

Less fire underwater, so no metal forging I'd imagine.

Water resistance making even kinetic crafting difficult, even for such as flint spears.

Can't build 'walls 'so easily. Though I can imagine giant nets separating areas from a sea floor to surface and air.

As well as tunnel systems, maybe underwater floating and towable fortress.

Need a different writing system, ink not staying on paper maybe. Maybe use stone and carved runes.

Ocean water everywhere, different from air system of disease.

Maybe could still make poultice, and wrap it around a wound.

Maybe make air chambers underwater, or travel onto land, the way humans travel into space.

. . .

I was thinking about AI earlier today, while I still think it relies too much on other peoples work.

It's true of humans as well, shoulders of giants and all that.

Lot of repetition of what earlier humans have said.

. . A difference though, is we'll often individually 'discover previous discoveries.

Still, put a bunch of babies on an isolated island with no imparted knowledge,

I imagine they'd be pretty primitive, 'if they managed to avoid death.

And they'd be pretty primitive for a 'number of generations, as various technologies had to be discovered and passed on.

Language, Laws, overcoming of maladaptive traditions.

But, humans 'would learn, we're mentally hardwired for higher achievements.

And physically configured for such, long lives and opposable thumbs.

Try to teach other animals 'human thoughts and behaviors, limited results.

The more one's environment pulls them down, less likelihood and reason to advance mentally, I'd figure.

Land 'does offer a lot of opportunity, for technological development.

I wonder how well a society of babies, unexposed to outside advanced humans, would progress.

I'd imagine they'd be pretty stunted mentally, primitive, maybe more maybe less violent.

But we're hardwired for higher development, of tech, society, language.

More than other Earth animals.

. . . Still take a few generations, before our society advances maybe,

And maybe there's setbacks, as previous generations might imprint maladaptive behaviors/traditions.

My thought though,

Is humans would be somewhat primitive ourselves, without repeating what some other humans have said.

Though I think current AI is still ‘less, still not hard ’or softwired all that well.

I wonder what 'qualities make up intelligence, greater and lesser,

Whether it has a ‘limit, as ’mass/size/strength in animals tend to limits.

Can only have 'so much strength or height, before one collapses under the weight.

But what would ‘greater than human intelligence have that humans don’t?

Think faster?

I don't think that's it, unless maybe it thought 'millions billions of times faster.

And something 'comes of that faster intelligence,

A human in slow motion, is still equal to a human in normal motion, In personhood.

Hm, other primates though,

It's not about ‘speed, it’s about ‘level, ability to ’grasp higher concepts.

Hm, or are the concepts to the side, not higher. .

We had a complex language that enabled oral traditions before we had writing,

Arguably if animals had language of 'significance, we might have figured such out by now.

Communicative behavior, isn't quite the same to me as ‘language. Lot of ’instinct in animals maybe, learned behaviors, but not sure I'd say 'language.

Are you arguing that moral Relativism/Nihilism is technically correct,

But that individual humans due to their nature, create and follow Moral systems as if they were Objective?

I think people ‘will ignore rules at time, if they’ve reason enough, or chance to avoid being caught.

Some say the chance of being caught is a vastly more effective deterrent than even draconian punishment.

But arguably investigation and monitoring of locations has 'vastly improved over time with technology.

Though I wonder how crime rates have varied through history.

Or during moments such as overpopulation among humans.

Definitly.

Some moments in books 'really gave me a rush,

Feelings of exultation and sensation that I would eventually come upon some big secret to life if I experienced/read enough.

Lot of the time though, it was a method of time travel or a anti reality bubble.

Easy to lose track of time and surroundings when engrossed in something one enjoys.

Eventually I was able to walk and read at the same time, easier with large print books though.

Read a number of books above my grade level, probably ought to reread them, as I think I'd better be able to understand them now.

I remember reading The Brothers Karamazov during High School Spanish Class, Not sure what 'grade of High School though.

Whoop, it's gone now, never mind.

Well, that's interesting, I can negative thumbs up myself on this thread.

I'm glad the surgery went well.

I had a solid beard before I was 18 years old.

I liked reading books unrelated to school during class.

Must be why I generally got Cs.

I had a speech impediment as a child, something about my Rs. Saw a speech therapist for a bit.

Even nowadays I have ‘something off about the way I talk, I’m not sure it's related to Rs anymore though.

As a child I had a green blanket and a stuffed animal ocelot.

They're still around, top shelf of a closet.

Can you define,

Real Capitalism?

Real Communism?

I'd imagine 'both have been tried on the small level of a village.

But, when you start having ‘lots of people, suddenly the 'State pops up as a problem, maybe even pops up in the village.

Capitalism,

Yes, I only own my property,

But I have freely traded my gold to these mercenaries, and we now want to change the system, to you paying us more.

A Dialogue on Freedom - Existential Comics

Communism,

Yes, we all must contribute to the greater good,

The greater good of the Community demands that the old be left out to die.

Senicide - Wikipedia

I'm not sure humans tend to want ’pure political systems.

Well, ‘maybe they want ’some aspects of pure political systems, but there's likely consequences that they ‘don’t want.

Unless it's ‘believed and wholeheartedly indoctrinated into one’s children,

Becomes more a 'hobby perhaps.

No roots.

And though religion can find converts in people not of the same blood,

I think religion sticks easier 'by blood,

The faith of one's ancestors, cultural heritage genetically tied, In Group.

I'd expect various Pagan religions to find roots in their historic cultures, Not that they ‘can’t find purchase in other cultures, just harder.

Greek Gods more likely to appeal to Greeks, than Greek Gods would appeal to the Japanese.

Maybe,

Paganism is either intellectual or rural.

If it's intellectual, it has less staying power.

If it's rural it has limited external power.

"The parable of the blind men and an elephant is a story of a group of blind men who have never come across an elephant before and who learn and imagine what the elephant is like by touching it. Each blind man feels a different part of the animal's body, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then describe the animal based on their limited experience and their descriptions of the elephant are different from each other. In some versions, they come to suspect that the other person is dishonest and they come to blows. The moral of the parable is that humans have a tendency to claim absolute truth based on their limited, subjective experience as they ignore other people's limited, subjective experiences which may be equally true.[1][2] The parable originated in the ancient Indian subcontinent, from where it has been widely diffused."

Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia

Does empathy require such high intelligence?

Ideas such understanding others feel pain, that we should be kind, help, and not harm?

(Well, such are the common themes of what many call good)

I don't think RexFavilla's argument is that being stupid is good,

But that intelligence and ability are not good/morality in themselves, but tools.

They are not the end goal, not the guiding star.

If one gains intelligence or strength, without acquiring goodness, what is produced but evil?

Goodness then, ought be something one always keeps in mind, regardless of strength.

. . .

Course some people don't believe in objective morality,

And one could argue that game theory and recognition of the profits of ‘acting good, and the harms of ’acting evil. Can have a large effect on society.

. . . Norms and laws are placed by the strong,

But if strength is what is valued highest,

Then rotting people rot the structure, and norms and laws of advantages do not reach the people.

. . .

Balancing act I suppose, when using people.

Ability is a tool, and one 'wants society to be improved, if a Good person with intelligence cannot be found, I suppose an Evil one can do at times.

But such always has the danger of ‘rot I’d expect, corruption that can spread.

I haven't tried talking to a modern Chat AI, no.

I sometimes think I ought 'try it, to better understand why others like it, maybe someday.

I 'do think AI is useful, a tool, better in some ways than other tools.

Though some might argue crutch, but eh, people always worried in history, as new technology is introduced.

And yet, I can imagine people of great faith failing in this world.

A person with strong faith can lack ability,
A person with no faith can have ability.

Though I admit faith can have 'an effect.

Berean Standard Bible
"The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion."
https://biblehub.com/proverbs/28-1.htm
 

A person who believes their action right, sleeps better, sees the world better, steps with more confidence.

Dunning–Kruger effect and pitfalls aside, confidence is a fine ability enhancer.

. . .

But I suppose faith does not need 'succeed, per your post.

One's faith is merely 'shown in the actions they choose.

As Job chose not to curse God.

Berean Standard Bible
Then Job’s wife said to him, “Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God and die!”
Though I admit faith can have an 'amount of effect on people,
https://biblehub.com/job/2-9.htm

Berean Standard Bible
“You speak as a foolish woman speaks,” he told her. “Should we accept from God only good and not adversity?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.
https://biblehub.com/job/2-10.htm

I have a difficult time imagining 'talking to an AI.

I suppose I've played video games with AI before, but in a way, that feels more like reading a book or watching a movie, 'maybe a little bit of pretend an immersion.

. . A chatbot though, would 'lack said immersion I imagine.

I'm not really a knight or wizard and the video game fantasy world doesn't exist. But the chatbot is of this world.

I would ‘think that it’s lack of reality as a 'person would be more apparent?

I ask because I don't talk to chatbots much, except perhaps accidentally and unknowingly online at times.

So I don't really know 'how it compares to people.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Yes, people are able to 'acquire creations of art and music.

But I'm not sure that is 'creation.

Though one might argue no one creates.

But AI seems more like a servant one asks to preform a task,

'Depending on how much one inputs.

If one doesn't write the music or beats, how much creation 'is there?

Course some people argue that electronic music isn't real music.

"They're not artists because nobody can play the guitar!" -?

Some people don't see painters who throw paint at a canvas artists,

But art's a bit subjective I suppose.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Sure AI is 'potentially useful, but new technology can be bumpy, as society adjusts,

Or bad for society at times, to varying degrees.

Subjective.

@RexFavilla, Skipper

Hm, I 'have heard that one before.

Berean Standard Bible
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-8.htm

It's a very less than egotistical way of looking at it.

. . . But there's also verses such as The Parable of the Talents, holding individuals accountable for their choices, efforts, and work.

I prefer pride, myself, ego and awareness of what one is.

Even if life is chance, and we merely came about to what we are.

I find it difficult to live 'practically otherwise.

Berean Standard Bible
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

https://biblehub.com/romans/6-23.htm

Berean Standard Bible
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him. “For all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

https://biblehub.com/matthew/26-52.htm

In verses such as the above, I see in what 'we do, and resultant actions.

Though I suppose for many people, in the 'end it all comes back to God.

The Rich Young Man
(Matthew 19:16–30; Luke 18:18–30)
17As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. 19You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not cheat others, honor your father and mother.”
20“Teacher,” he replied, “all these I have kept from my youth.”
21Jesus looked at him, loved him, and said to him, “There is one thing you lack: Go, sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me”
22But the man was saddened by these words and went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
24And the disciples were amazed at His words.
But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
26They were even more astonished and said to one another, “Who then can be saved?”
27Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”
28Peter began to say to Him, “Look, we have left everything and followed You.”
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for My sake and for the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundredfold in the present age—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields, along with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.”

https://biblehub.com/bsb/mark/10.htm

I don't think nudity is definitively pornography.

I'd imagine there have been nude child statues of children in history, and even in modernity.

"So then would you want to legalize child porn or ban the Nirvana album?  If neither, then you are a hypocrite."

-RemyBrown #13

Eh, not the way I see it,

But the other shoe is dropping in my brain now, as I recognize your user name.

One 'could argue there is nuance in nudity.

Some stone statues were nude, for aesthetics and arts sake.

Some cultures haven't and don't mind nudity, to various degrees.

Some people argue there is a difference between the above nudities, and nudity for erotic use, or depicting sex between two individuals.

Though, I 'assume there is CP that just shows lone individuals in undress.

Maybe Spencer Elden 'did get robbed, and nowadays we ought not use humans before they can understand and contract, for films at all.

. . .

I think there 'is something wrong with being an Ideological Hypocrite,

But one can argue there exist 'degrees of wrong. Lesser evils, expected evils.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevermind
"The album cover shows a naked baby boy swimming underwater with a U.S. dollar bill on a fishhook just out of his reach."

I'd imagine people vary, on what they think Hell is.

. . .

I'd say another consideration is expected outcomes.

Sure Christians may want to save people,

But will telling people they will go to Hell, the best outcome that can be achieved?

Well, depends on the method maybe,

I'd imagine there are many ways of talking about Hell to people.

And many possible reactions, depending on who one is talking to.

. . .

I'm pretty stuck with my perspective on 'worldly ramifications though.