forgot tag
"Infrastructure was being built for years after Roe v. Wade"
Infrastructure is always built, even today.
"it was still difficult to get legal abortions"
No, as shown by rapid increase in less than 4 years. If you are implying people couldnt reach hospitals because there were no roads, thats not true because people were still reaching and getting abortions in a number which only kept increasing. And argument similar to yours applies today too where some people cant afford legal abortions, or cant get legal abortions.
But again, you dont even know number of total abortions, to even present it, today or back then.
"but the overall trend following the 1980s is downward"
Actually, no, 2022, and 2023, and 2024, and 2025, saw a rise in abortions, not decrease.
So if you are going to cherry pick a specific time period which came decade after legalization, I dont see whats the point, because topic was about world being better than before, and I can likewise find many points in time where world was better than today.
World being made much worse, and then slightly better, and then worse again, is not improvement. thats like saying losing 10 dollars and then getting 5 dollars is improvement.
Abortions were more legal in 1974 than they are today, so actually, more illegal abortions are likely done today than in 1974.
Again, you cant measure "total abortions" outside of legal abortions, and abortions were legalized in 1973, with gradual legalization starting earlier.
"The spike in 1973 was right after Roe v. Wade and states were adjusting to that"
Actually, legal abortions in 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976 wwere lower than today. I can buy that first year, they were adjusting. I cannot buy that someone in 1974 when abortion was legal chose to do abortion outside of legality for some reason, but same not applying in 1980.
"I'm not sure legal abortions were an accurate measure of total abortions until around the 1980s"
And you would know this, how, when you admit you dont know number of total abortions even today?
then by that logic, you dont have accurate measure of total abortions today when abortions are illegal in many states in USA, and abortion is actually not "on demand" almost anywhere in the world.
Update your AI app please.
"Legal abortions and total abortions are not the same thing"
When abortion is legal, we can assume legal abortions are close enough to total abortions.
Legal abortions are higher now than in 1973, 1974...
And as for "total abortions", I dont see how you measure that outside surveys and number of legal abortions.
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"Birth rates are going down for largely the same reasons abortions are decreasing"
Legal abortions are over 5 times higher today than in 1970.
"Fewer unintended pregnancies is a good thing."
Not when women stop wanting to be pregnant at all. Same effect on population as mass abortions.
In 1970, the legal abortion ratio in the United States was approximately
52 per 1,000 live births, or about 193,000 reported legal abortions, according to data from Johnston's Archive and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention | CDC (.gov). This followed the legalization of abortion in a few states, most notably New York, earlier that year.
193,000 legal abortions is much less than 1,1 million legal abortions today.
After legalizing abortions in 1973, US birth rates have basically halved.
they were 2.8 per woman in 1970. then after 1973, dropped to 1.8 per woman.
So abortion has actual effects on birth rates which is actually higher than what mere abortion numbers show, because not all abortions are even legally recorded. 1 million is just what is recorded legally.
Are they? Because we currently have over 1 million abortions per year, seeing a rise after 2022.
And also, you have to account abortion per pregnancy rate. Right now its not on any better level than it was in 1960, but its even worse because there are actually less pregnancies today and lower birth rate.
Also, it is questionable how to measure abortion rates.
In a 2024 survey, about 14 % of U.S. women of reproductive age (typically ages 18-49) reported that they have had at least one abortion at some point in their lives.
Another large survey found a similar figure: about 1 in 7 women (≈14 %) reported having had an abortion.
this places number of abortions at over 1 million per year, which is made worse by fact that number of pregnancies in USA decreased.
U.S. pregnancies and birth rates have
generally declined since a peak in 2007, reaching historically low levels in 2023. While teenage pregnancies have fallen by roughly two-thirds since 2007, birth rates have shifted, decreasing for women under 30 but increasing for women in their 30s and 40.
So now you have very high number of abortions and rising, but pregnancy number decreasing.
In 2024, the estimated number of clinician-provided abortions in the United States was
over 1.1 million, marking a continued rise despite state-level bans
I can do gish gallop silly AI too:
Abortion rates in the U.S. and some other regions have risen despite increased restrictions
. In the U.S., abortions rose by 8% between 2023 and 2024, driven by telehealth and out-of-state travel, reaching the highest levels in recent years. Similarly, England and Wales saw an 11% increase in abortions in 2023.
In 2023, there were
over 1 million (approximately 1,034,000 to 1,038,000) abortions in the United States, marking an 11% increase from 2021.
1 million murders per year in USA alone, wow what a wonderful world
"If the world were truly getting worse across key metrics"
You dont get to choose what key goals are, sorry. And trying to gish gallop AI responses? Cute. And still cant deny anything I said.
People already believe me. Ask anyone. No one really thinks world is getting better. It doesnt matter what goal you set. Homicide rates are greatly up when you realize abortion is homicide. Mortality rates are greatly up when you realize a lot of people cant even have family anymore. Depression rates, suicide rates, mental illness rates, disorders rates... highest ever. there are more homeless people today than before in USA.
But yes, keep using your copy paste AI. As I said, when you succeed in one goal, you fail in another. Such is the necessary logic of the world, which your AI knows nothing about. Maybe ask AI to explain taoism to you, and why everything good has a bad side.
No one thinks world is getting better, except the AI you use.
I just dont accept your opinion. Get used to it.
You can gish gallop all you want. Every time people learn from one mistake, they forget something else and entirely new mistake is made. this is why thousands of years of progress have brought society which is as bad as it ever was.
"Some people who learned from their mistakes"
That's just your opinion tho. If people learned from their mistakes, world would be constantly improving, but it isn't.
Best example of failing to learn are my parents, who in past 30 years learned nothing and even became dumber than before. But American voters are good example too.
"Your claim crumbles under scrutiny"
No, your claim does. Because every time person learns, he forgets something else. So there is no learning. this is why world is as bad today as it was before.
"Are you saying we should not judge it as a mistake?"
It doesnt matter how you judge it, because people arent capable of learning from mistakes.
Everyone is strategy master after the battle.
Allah has won the debate
Have you secured yourself against Allah's lies, brother?
I am actually muslim, I just consider Allah the best liar.
Allah chose to punish Muhammad. Allah is the greatest liar. Do you feel safe from Allah's lies? the only ones who feel safe from Allah's lies are the nation of losers. Muhammad learned that the hard way. He felt safe against Allah's lies.
Atheists are getting tired, its too much for them.
So Allah chose to deceive Muhammad, so Muhammad ate poison and died.
Muhammad felt secure against Allah's lies.
The only ones who feel secure against Allah's lies are the losers,
because Allah is the best at lying.
Why didn't Allah warn his prophet?
Why did Allah let Muhammad die from poison?
Is Muhammad a liar, or is Allah the best liar?
