I certainly haven’t hidden my thoughts on this subject, and there’s a reason I’ve been so vocal about it, which as far as I can tell, no one has even touched upon in this “trial”, it’s comments, or vote explanations, so I’m going to rant about it at length. That is the real-world consequences of internet activity of this kind, Remy Brown’s posts typify the type of posts that have serious consequences in the real world. His largest category calls for violence against women, and his second largest category calls for violence against Jews. I’m sure members will consider these descriptions debatable, but I would hate to try to defend it under investigation or scrutiny of law enforcement or platform providers. They will certainly recognize that our blathering about free “speech” or our claimed inalienable right to debate these topics as the bullshit “excuses” that they are.
His repeated calls for violence against women, constant attempts to justify rape, claiming women deserve it, and clearly advocating rape are the types of posts that normalize non-consensual behavior, perpetuates victim-blaming, trivializes sexual violence, and in the end, repeatedly adds the type of post that incites real world violence against women while increasing the incidence of rape. As internet antisemitism has grown severe physical attacks and fatalities directed at Jewish communities have risen to their highest points in over three decades. These are not harmless posts.
If we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem, and whether any particular incident of violence against women or Jews can trace back to these particular posts doesn’t really matter, the problem is a collective problem, and we are undeniably contributing to the collective problem.
There is a lot of blathering about “Free Speech” here and that overused and misused “excuse” is no more than a non-sequitur, first because “Free Speech has no application whatsoever to a private website, and second, even if it did apply here, the large number of Remy’s posts that are designed to incite violence against women or Jews are not protected speech. Remy’s favorite excuse is absurd, he argues that his posts are just “ragebait”, he himself offers the strongest argument against him. To argue that these posts should be OK because he is just trying to incite rage, when the primary emotion that results in violence against women and Jews is in fact, rage, is just stupid.
Whiteflame’s argument that the volume of Remy’s posts and responses are themselves good for the growth of the website is flat out misguided. Think about the process by which members join, they first show up and read to get a feel for what the site is about, and then decide if they want to participate, the prevalence of Remy’s posts make it likely that his posts are considered in that evaluation, I don’t believe it gives a positive first impression of our site, many are surely turned away, and those who see Remy’s activity as a reason to join are frankly, not the type of members we want or need. I feel like we are drifting away from being a debate site and towards a “manosphere” or “incel” site, or at least one of those sites featuring antisemitism, or misogyny. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that we have very few female members, since Alyssa left, as far as I can tell, the only two active women posters are Debby and Shoresy, and I’m not so sure Debby isn’t a bot. A large percentage of posts here advocate rape and other forms of violence against women, I think we need to accept that we have become a site that isn’t a safe place for women, Jews, and other people who are offended.
Along that line of thinking, the question as to whether he violates the terms of service/CoC, of course he does. A simple example; recognize that over 20% of women experience either completed or attempted rape, and almost half experience other forms of sexual assault. Victims typically suffer lower self-esteem, self-doubt, severe psychological trauma, guilt, shame, self-blame, PTSD, and other psychological traumas that can last for decades. If a woman who has been a victim reads some of Remy’s posts, I think it is fair to characterize his efforts as deliberate attempts to cause harm to other posters in violation of our CoC. While Section 230 protects the site from liability for what a poster does, it does not protect us from legal and civil liabilities for hate speech, calls for violence, or advocating and justifying rape, all of which have been the subject of Remy posts. So, as deliberate attempts to cause harm to rape victims, Remy and/or the web site could be sued for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress (IIED).
In response to Whiteflames’ contention that Remy is in some way good for the site. Rather than increase diversity of opinion as Whiteflames seems to think, I think Remy’s posts drive women, and other marginalized communities he attacks away from the site, narrows debate, widens the gender digital divide, and strips the site of diverse and vital perspectives.
Finally, I think Remy poses a significant threat to the site’s existence. Almost all major social media and major web platforms, hosting providers, and online forums maintain zero-tolerance policies for hate speech, calls for violence and justifying or advocating non-consensual sexual assault that typify Remy’s posts. Hosting providers will err on the side of caution, they certainly have no interest in debating or worse, possibly litigating our so called “right” to the content in question. I believe it would be relatively easy to have this site shut down by simply turning the lights on, I believe that by notifying the hosting platform and selecting a few law enforcement and advocacy agencies NOW or the JDL, a person could simply disappear the site. Despite the protections afforded by Section 230, there is a reason that this type of content is disallowed by almost all social media and wed hosting platforms, and I’m pretty sure it is because it is the right thing to do.
His repeated calls for violence against women, constant attempts to justify rape, claiming women deserve it, and clearly advocating rape are the types of posts that normalize non-consensual behavior, perpetuates victim-blaming, trivializes sexual violence, and in the end, repeatedly adds the type of post that incites real world violence against women while increasing the incidence of rape. As internet antisemitism has grown severe physical attacks and fatalities directed at Jewish communities have risen to their highest points in over three decades. These are not harmless posts.
If we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem, and whether any particular incident of violence against women or Jews can trace back to these particular posts doesn’t really matter, the problem is a collective problem, and we are undeniably contributing to the collective problem.
There is a lot of blathering about “Free Speech” here and that overused and misused “excuse” is no more than a non-sequitur, first because “Free Speech has no application whatsoever to a private website, and second, even if it did apply here, the large number of Remy’s posts that are designed to incite violence against women or Jews are not protected speech. Remy’s favorite excuse is absurd, he argues that his posts are just “ragebait”, he himself offers the strongest argument against him. To argue that these posts should be OK because he is just trying to incite rage, when the primary emotion that results in violence against women and Jews is in fact, rage, is just stupid.
Whiteflame’s argument that the volume of Remy’s posts and responses are themselves good for the growth of the website is flat out misguided. Think about the process by which members join, they first show up and read to get a feel for what the site is about, and then decide if they want to participate, the prevalence of Remy’s posts make it likely that his posts are considered in that evaluation, I don’t believe it gives a positive first impression of our site, many are surely turned away, and those who see Remy’s activity as a reason to join are frankly, not the type of members we want or need. I feel like we are drifting away from being a debate site and towards a “manosphere” or “incel” site, or at least one of those sites featuring antisemitism, or misogyny. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that we have very few female members, since Alyssa left, as far as I can tell, the only two active women posters are Debby and Shoresy, and I’m not so sure Debby isn’t a bot. A large percentage of posts here advocate rape and other forms of violence against women, I think we need to accept that we have become a site that isn’t a safe place for women, Jews, and other people who are offended.
Along that line of thinking, the question as to whether he violates the terms of service/CoC, of course he does. A simple example; recognize that over 20% of women experience either completed or attempted rape, and almost half experience other forms of sexual assault. Victims typically suffer lower self-esteem, self-doubt, severe psychological trauma, guilt, shame, self-blame, PTSD, and other psychological traumas that can last for decades. If a woman who has been a victim reads some of Remy’s posts, I think it is fair to characterize his efforts as deliberate attempts to cause harm to other posters in violation of our CoC. While Section 230 protects the site from liability for what a poster does, it does not protect us from legal and civil liabilities for hate speech, calls for violence, or advocating and justifying rape, all of which have been the subject of Remy posts. So, as deliberate attempts to cause harm to rape victims, Remy and/or the web site could be sued for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress (IIED).
In response to Whiteflames’ contention that Remy is in some way good for the site. Rather than increase diversity of opinion as Whiteflames seems to think, I think Remy’s posts drive women, and other marginalized communities he attacks away from the site, narrows debate, widens the gender digital divide, and strips the site of diverse and vital perspectives.
Finally, I think Remy poses a significant threat to the site’s existence. Almost all major social media and major web platforms, hosting providers, and online forums maintain zero-tolerance policies for hate speech, calls for violence and justifying or advocating non-consensual sexual assault that typify Remy’s posts. Hosting providers will err on the side of caution, they certainly have no interest in debating or worse, possibly litigating our so called “right” to the content in question. I believe it would be relatively easy to have this site shut down by simply turning the lights on, I believe that by notifying the hosting platform and selecting a few law enforcement and advocacy agencies NOW or the JDL, a person could simply disappear the site. Despite the protections afforded by Section 230, there is a reason that this type of content is disallowed by almost all social media and wed hosting platforms, and I’m pretty sure it is because it is the right thing to do.