Madoka Magica - Episode 3

Wym mechanically? And mine checks out canonically too

Being un recruitable makes sense since she's a male character and her justification for why she's BP also checks out. And yours also does check out.

If you’ve only seen her Town behavior, you have no comparison. No control group if we want to put it from a scientific perspective.

Just answer why I would CC here vs taking either the REF or Kohai lynches.

Also I was sus of Vader before the Witch thing was announced. I asked all of you what you thought about Vader long before

 I can only see him pulling off such a massive YOLO if they desperately need the 1x Permanent Roleblock or the 1x Rolecop to win the game.

This is actually a pretty good reason, since the rolecop goes to a random townie if I read it correctly. That can be used to town confirm someone and shrink PoE further. Thing is, I'm not sold Wryly was the target.

Pie

In DP1, expressed some frustration with the theme, developed a pretty reasonable early read list and focused mainly on activity before largely just being good with the VTNL.

By DP2, he was focused more on choices made vis-a-vis the contract offer before largely focusing his attention on Kohai. I still get the read looking back through all this, largely due to a lack of clarity and a great deal of TMI. His POE made sense at the time as well. Accepted the VTNL, but there was a lot of weirdness at the end of last DP, particularly on the Kohai lynch. He's largely maintained his sus of Kohai since, so seemed like he expected Kohai's lynch DP3.

As for DP3, he pushed for Rex's claim then focused on Vader's claim. He did claim Mami pretty early this DP. The shift in focus onto Vader did make some sense given that Vader didn't use his night action. I initially agreed, though it is an odd choice to say that he should have targeted me just to test my role. I'd love the validation, but it basically just ensures he's sacrificing one of his shots for a role confirmation. It's not nothing and a Redirector could cause problems, but I found it more frustrating that he didn't use it on anyone despite having some reads of his own. Still, much as I disagreed with Pie's POE this DP coming down to me and Vader as OG scum, I understood how he reached that conclusion, even though he was writing off other players too easily (particularly Rex). That all leads to the decision to push back hard on role claiming. I kind of get it with the Doctor already flipped, but the pushback did seem excessive, effectively calling for enough people to declare their willingness to lynch him for it to be a certainty unless he claimed.

There are a few elements here that rub me the wrong way, but behaviorally, this looks pretty townie for Pie. Regarding the unwillingness to claim, he's done this a lot in other games and almost always seems to be the last person whose claim gets pressured out, which is true whether he's scum or town. Some of the ways he approached pursuing Kohai and Vader over the last two DPs are a little off as well, even if I get his reads.

This is actually a pretty good reason, since the rolecop goes to a random townie if I read it correctly. That can be used to town confirm someone and shrink PoE further. Thing is, I'm not sold Wryly was the target.

If wryly was not the target and pie is scum why would he put so much energy into the wryly lynch?

Alright, a lot got posted while I was in the middle of that. Let me read through these posts and I'll give the side-by-side comparison.

Being un recruitable makes sense since she's a male character and her justification for why she's BP also checks out. And yours also does check out.

She’s assuming that’s why she’s unrecruitable (she said it doesn’t say that in her PM). It’s not a fact, and we have no verification of that. Plus she’s the outlier in the sense she’s the only male claimed.

Kyuubey is a man right. What if the hint given was that there are no men. She knows everyone is recruitable based on the mechanic. Put 2+2

Kyuubey is a man right.

Saw this first, just a quick response: Kyuubey technically has no gender. I'll often say "he" because that's how I perceive them, but they're a genderless alien creature.

Kohai, if there are 2 of the same role in a game, ever, I will eat my hat. I will destroy my rig. I will host my own mafia game.

Kohai, if there are 2 of the same role in a game, ever, I will eat my hat. I will destroy my rig. I will host my own mafia game.

I will eat it with you lmao

Kohai, if there are 2 of the same role in a game, ever, I will eat my hat. I will destroy my rig. I will host my own mafia game.

I will eat it with you lmao

More reasons to think you're both actually town

there's zero change they're both town lol

I wonder if Kohai's trying to get a teammate out of a sticky situation

A lot of your posts tagging me boil down the case against Casey to "we don't know her scum behavior," which, fair point, we don't. I find it hard to believe she'd town-tell this hard as scum, but it's possible. I am re-evaluating her based on the CC.

We do know that scum at least have insight into fake claims, whether that means they were given them or given information sufficient to craft them.

It is still a little weird that I pointed to Vader being an X-shot while no one else had claimed one and you responded affirmatively. I get that one's a passive role and one's active, but that wasn't the focus of that post. Maybe your response was more focused on it being specifically a 2X active role, but that didn't come across.

It wasn't much of a delay on the CC, so I'll leave that aside. You did seem to flag it pretty quickly. And I agree, the CC doesn't make much sense from where I'm sitting if you're scum. That's the main thing that's puzzling me about you.

I wonder if Kohai's trying to get a teammate out of a sticky situation

If this was the case I'd just take the free mislynch and then bus my partner hard on the next day phase.

It wasn't much of a delay on the CC, so I'll leave that aside. You did seem to flag it pretty quickly. And I agree, the CC doesn't make much sense from where I'm sitting if you're scum. That's the main thing that's puzzling me about you.

Herein lies the problem: I can create a very strong town case for both pie and wryly

It is still a little weird that I pointed to Vader being an X-shot while no one else had claimed one and you responded affirmatively. I get that one's a passive role and one's active, but that wasn't the focus of that post. Maybe your response was more focused on it being specifically a 2X active role, but that didn't come across.

Sure it’s weird, but it’s just different interpretations. Like Kohai thinks this game is bastard.

My counter to this though is that I asked to claim DP4 (to bait the NK) and to be rolecopped for the reason that I was going to claim BP with a Doctor already flipped.

Herein lies the problem: I can create a very strong town case for both pie and wryly

Yeah, so can I. Diving back through all their posts in the last 3 DPs actually made me read Pie a little more townie behaviorally. And I think the key problem here is that both of them would have to have made a seriously crazy decision: scum Pie would have to outright CC someone with a role he knows he doesn't have, while scum Wryly would have to have masterminded a bunch of very townie play and just choosing to give up her role when there was no pressure on her knowing it could be CC'd. They're both choices I wouldn't expect either of them to make, so either someone was careless (one of them or Thoth), or they're both town. I can't say I've ever seen a game with this much protection and a repeat role, though, so we'll have to make some decision here.

Oh also. Do neither of you find it odd that Mharman2 is hard defending Wryly. All the arguments are primarily him, not her.

My counter to this though is that I asked to claim DP4 (to bait the NK) and to be rolecopped for the reason that I was going to claim BP with a Doctor already flipped.

I can see how that fits with your claim. That being said, delaying your role claim in particular has become a common thread to most games I've played with you. Specifically calling for the Role Cop to be used on you is a stronger point in your corner.

Yeah, so can I. Diving back through all their posts in the last 3 DPs actually made me read Pie a little more townie behaviorally. And I think the key problem here is that both of them would have to have made a seriously crazy decision: scum Pie would have to outright CC someone with a role he knows he doesn't have, while scum Wryly would have to have masterminded a bunch of very townie play and just choosing to give up her role when there was no pressure on her knowing it could be CC'd. They're both choices I wouldn't expect either of them to make, so either someone was careless (one of them or Thoth), or they're both town. I can't say I've ever seen a game with this much protection and a repeat role, though, so we'll have to make some decision here.

Exactly. If pie is scum I have to believe that he's YOLOing to get castin mislynched when he has other mislynch targets.

If castin is scum then I have to believe they played a nearly perfect game and blundered the fake claim. I will then have to believe that either they were recruited or they are OG scum and Kyosuke isn't actually in the game. If castin was originally town then I don't see them claiming anything other than their original role.

This leads me to conclude there's a strong non-zero chance they are both town

You know what? My case has been defeated. Well argued.

Unvote VTL Wryly

Vote Count

Wryly (3/4) | ILikePie5, Vader, Mag1cman -- L1

ILikePie5 (2/4) Mag1cman, Wryly

Kohai (1/4) | RexFavilla

Not voting: whiteflame, Kohai

I'm not sure I like magic's sudden pivot to wryly

Vote Count

Wryly (3/4) | ILikePie5, Vader, Mag1cman -- L1

ILikePie5 (1/4) Wryly

Kohai (1/4) | RexFavilla

Not voting: whiteflame, Kohai

Sorry corrected

unvote

hold on a sec

I'm not sure I like magic's sudden pivot to wryly

He's trying to save face lol. Probably the recruit

Vote Count

Wryly (2/4) | ILikePie5, Vader -- L2

ILikePie5 (1/4) Wryly

Kohai (1/4) | RexFavilla

Not voting: whiteflame, Kohai, Mag1cman

nice omgus lol

If castin is scum then I have to believe they played a nearly perfect game and blundered the fake claim. I will then have to believe that either they were recruited or they are OG scum and Kyosuke isn't actually in the game. If castin was originally town then I don't see them claiming anything other than their original role.

In her recent scum game she literally blundered by saying 2 words she wasn’t supposed to say (she got blown up because of it)

Ive explained that it’s not a guarantee that Kyosuke is in the game

Assume both of you are actually town. Who is the likely scum?

I feel like Mag1c would be smart enough to bus me if I was counter-claimed and he was my scummate. Also smart enough to advise me not to claim like I did in the first place.

As for my sporadic activity, I'm sick, I feel like crap, and I'm in the middle of cooking.