Madoka Magica - Episode 3

I’d prefer to claim tomorrow.

By "tomorrow," do you mean DP4 or what is now today?

If Rex is telling the truth, it seems like he's now a leading scum target, and our doctor is dead. If he's lying, contract cop seems like a great fake claim, allowing you to guide suspicion away from the real recruit. Either way, I'm not happy.

Yeah, I'd say that's a fair take on his claim. For the former, he was pressured pretty hard into claiming, so I don't think he could have escaped becoming a target if he's town. We don't know if scum got a fake role claim, so this might not have been a risky fake claim if he's scum.

I have an x-shot. He wouldn't be the only one.

Ah, that does change things. Thanks for chiming in.

Claiming Sayaka 2x Redirector DP2 seems like a risky claim for scum. Even if scum were given Sayaka as a fake claim, claiming Redirector seems ballsy since it could potentially be disproven. Unless he was fake claiming Sayaka but straight claiming Redirector. But that wouldn't address your skepticism with Redirector even being in the game.

It's less about whether he's faking the claim (the visits would be difficult to replicate) and more about whether he's scum and the Redirector.

I’m thinking Rex’s claim is more likely than not, completely fake.

It's opportunistic, to be sure. His targets both seem very convenient.

As for the recruitment; I spitballed this DP1, but I’m thinking scum is Walpergisnacht/recruited magical girl.

In the series, Kyubey orchestrates the conflict between magical girls and witches for his own goals, kinda like how Thoth is running this game. So Thoth = Kyubey for extra flavor.

And the recruitment is mod-run, I think. Could be random, but it’s possible scum has some input for balance (like choosing from the candidates who accepted the contract), but I don’t think scum pressed a big red “recruit people” button.

I like the theory, though with this mid-DP Madoka witch flip, I'm starting to think that witches are a mod-run mechanic in this game. Not sure if/how Walpurgis fits into this game, but we know Kyuubey is involved.

Oh right. I tagged you because i was gonna float the idea of you and I both using our roles to test Whiteflame.

I actually don’t like it. Confirming Whiteflame’s role does nothing to prove his affiliation.

Yes, you would only be testing my role claim, and I don't think more than one of you is required to do that anyway. If you can learn anything that's affiliation indicative with your roles, that should be the priority.

Why would that matter? You can accept or reject the contract whether or not your character is revealed.

Yes, but that meant that Mag1c was not Kyuubey. I think the use of your role against a target you thought was Kyuubey would have made more sense since they were the ones you could 100% catch in a lie.

I'm not sure what happens if I target Kyuubey.

Seems like something you should've asked about already.

Since you know I was honest about accepting the contract this proves that I’m not original scum and that I have been fully honest and transparent

You weren't honest. You were very evasive about it, not giving a clear answer, and not listing yourself as 'accepted' in the list of players which you yourself compiled. You accused me of being scum for saying that I accepted it, so this

serious question for you: If the contract went through and my alignment actually changed why would I admit it on the very first post of day 2? This makes zero sense from a scum player. If I was scum here never in a million years would I have made that post

can be turned right back on you: if this is your reasoning, why did my saying 'I accepted the contract' make you scum read me in DP2? That's why I voted you, because I saw you first not coming right out and saying that you accepted, instead waffling about how it 'didn't go through', then not putting yourself as having accepted on your own list, then scumreading me when I came out and said that I accepted the contract. Once you finally came out and clearly said that you accepted the contract when you were getting heat I unvoted, then I reread and still saw all your posts as still impossible to come from a town perspective. If this was really a miscommunication issue you would not have scumread me for saying that I accepted - that's something that someone trying to obfuscate their own response would say.

I'll go through and compile everything again:

Post #2:

1. I was targeted with a night action

Kyubey targeted me asking me to enter in a contract. I had a feeling this was an alignment changing role. I was intreagued so I initally accepted the offer but then retracted it after reading up on it (though it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the contract ended up failing). It was mod confirmed to me that this was an alignment changing role. We are dealing with a cult or a recruiter.

Your post here says clearly that you retracted the offer. Not that it went through anyway, that you retracted it, implying that you were successful. Now if you had come out and said that you were nervous about owning up to your acceptance because you were the first person posting, thought the offer only went to you, and thought that it might get you mislynched, that's the only town motivation that makes sense here. You didn't do that, you've lied over and over again, including in this post, saying that you stated that you accepted in post #2, with Mharman1 backing your up, which is why i became suspicious of him as well. It's clearly not what you said, you said that you retracted the offer, which anyone reading this would assume meant that you successfully retracted it.

Post #56:

whiteflame

Mag1cman - Madoka, received contract offer

ILikePie5 - Received recruitment offer and rejected

Kohai - hitomi - emissary - received recruitment offer

RexFavilla - Accepted recruitment offer but did not go through

Vader - Received contract offer for hidden abilities, targeted Mikal

Wryly - Unrecruitable

Mikal (substitute for Casey_Risk) received offfer, accepted, did not go through

You compiled this list, but did not list yourself as accepted, despite listing other players as having accepted it and it not having gone through , what actually happened to you. You're excuse for this, later on in the DP, is basically that you 'missed' your own action in this list, which is also farfetched.

You then post another list (#61) in which you are STILL not listed as having accepted:

whiteflame - Got recruitment offer

Mag1cman - Madoka, received contract offer

ILikePie5 - Received recruitment offer and rejected

Kohai - hitomi - emissary - received recruitment offer

RexFavilla - Accepted recruitment offer but did not go through

Vader - Received contract offer for hidden abilities, targeted Mikal

Wryly - Unrecruitable

Mikal (substitute for Casey_Risk) received offfer, accepted, did not go through

You also scumread me in #52 for claiming that I accepted, something that you yourself claim to have fessed up to when you first posted:

I knew it was a recruitment offer, I asked. I wanted to switch sides, as I dislike playing as town.

Anyone see this as a scum slip? We know for a fact someone did change sides

I point Kohai out in post 147, where I don't want to claim but still want to push him because I want to know why he's lying. He becomes immediately defensive and OMGUSes me, which he can also do as town, so I keep pushing.

In post #135, Pie finally forcefully askes Kohai to specifically clarify whether he accepted or rejected:

Did you officially Accept or Decline the contract?

This could be a bus, but I don't think Pie would pick Kohai over me to recruit, so for now I really don't think Pie is scum. I don't think he would choose to be recruited and I don't think he would choose to recruit Kohai.

Kohai, who is apparently so eager to tell us that he accepted the contract that we ought to townread him over it, then proceeds to ignore this question while posting for six hours, with Pie even asking him again to answer in #151, until he tries to weasel out of it in #164:

Did you read my opening post? Your question is answered there

Pie hits him up again in post #166:

I’m asking you to rephrase in your own words what happened last night.

He finally answers in post #173:

I got a message stating that I had an opportunity to sign a contract and unlock a previously hidden ability. I initially accepted it not thinking twice however when I read up on the character I realized this was probably an alignment changing role. I attempted to back out and was told it was too late; however that point was moot because the contract failed to go through.

Compare this to his original post and note the difference:

Kyubey targeted me asking me to enter in a contract. I had a feeling this was an alignment changing role. I was intreagued so I initally accepted the offer but then retracted it after reading up on it (though it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the contract ended up failing). It was mod confirmed to me that this was an alignment changing role. We are dealing with a cult or a recruiter.

Absolutely ZERO mention of IT BEING TOO LATE. I want someone to PLEASE FUCKING TELL ME what other explanation there is for this other than that he was disquieted by Pie's dogged pursuit of the issue, worried that Pie had some kind of result which told him Kohai's actual answer (or was a lie detector of some sort), and finally fessed up halfway through the thread, and has since been lying about this and insisting that he disclosed that he accepted in the original post. We are quibbling over theory and all this shit and ignoring this glaringly obvious scummy behavior, even refusing to lynch last DP for some godforsaken reason. As I said last DP, my vote is parked on Kohai.

Read the precious day phase where I asked the mod a few questions about ascetics. He basically confirmed an ascetic was in the game. 

How did he do that?

Since you know I was honest about accepting the contract this proves that I’m not original scum and that I have been fully honest and transparent

I was pretty sure you were not OG scum already. You being the recruit is still entirely possible.

serious question for you: If the contract went through and my alignment actually changed why would I admit it on the very first post of day 2? This makes zero sense from a scum player. If I was scum here never in a million years would I have made that post

WIFOM. There are several players who have claimed to accept the contract. Are all of them lock town because they did?

I agree with pie that there’s confirmed scum in Vader and whiteflame. Whiteflame is basically conf ascetic and so town redirect or makes no sense

Read the precious day phase where I asked the mod a few questions about ascetics. He basically confirmed an ascetic was in the game.

Much as I'd love to agree with this, a mod spelling out how a role mechanic plays with another role we know is in the game doesn't confirm the existence of the first role.

I honestly buy the fact that he was converted. But we also need to find the OG scum as that’s the key to strategy. I’m perfectly okay with lynching Kohai for behavioral reasons alone. The shift in behavior is notable and all he’s been doing is being defensive, plain buddying, or dodging

Already gonna sit down and fully read this game

Top candidate for OG scum is Vader/WF

Top candidate for recruit is Kohai

By "tomorrow," do you mean DP4 or what is now today?

DP4. Ideally, I would like to be rolecopped

I absolutely hate the fact that Supa didn’t use his ability last night. He could’ve redirected who he thought was scum onto someone he also thought could be scum

I can literally also do this any other DP as well. We have 7 alive so it's likely a 5v2. If the contract failed for everyone, which was confirmed in the last DP, I doubt anyone got recruited. Using it in DP3 to get more information would've been a lot better. And what role would I have tested it on,

Unvote

I think we need to focus on finding original scum.

So why is contract cop such a viable claim then? It literally could've only been used 1 DP and he didn't even claim it? That claim is less viable than a Redirector. It is also a fitting fake claim.

I have my suspicions on Kohai from DP2 but I also agree with your Pie assessment. For now what we know is Magic2 got redirected onto Magic1 and Magic2 / Mikal saw one other person visit. So we have confirmation of that at the minimum (in a NP with no NK I may add). Pie literally does not have any verifiability with his claims and has nothing to him

So right now, I don't know how to read this game at the moment. Maybe I am missing something, but do we actually have legit confirmation that someone was recruited?

So why is contract cop such a viable claim then? It literally could've only been used 1 DP and he didn't even claim it? That claim is less viable than a Redirector. It is also a fitting fake claim.

What are you talking about lmao. He already claimed he used it on Kohai NP1 and then used it on Mharman1 NP2.

I also buy the claim because Thoth explicitly told me before this game even started that he’s definitely going to include a custom role because no one besides Luna ever does. REF can’t be the OG scum here.

Redirector is generally a scum role to begin with. Would you claim it as your true role? Idk, it’s WIFOM, but I dislike your behavior and POE has you and WF down as OG scum

I honestly buy the fact that he was converted. But we also need to find the OG scum as that’s the key to strategy. I’m perfectly okay with lynching Kohai for behavioral reasons alone. The shift in behavior is notable and all he’s been doing is being defensive, plain buddying, or dodging

Whiteflame always feels scummy to me, so that's a given. I feel like he's being a bit deliberately obtuse on Kohai. Almost in a 'it's hard to make a man understand a thing when his wincon depends on him not understanding it' kind of way. I'm very up in the air about the Casey slot, I don't like how hard Kohai went to bat for them in DP2 after being on their ass all DP1, and I don't think it's beyond that realm of possibility that a universal recruitment was a scripted NP1 event that went off with or without scum input. It seems like these witch events are similar. I stand by my argument that the fact that Thoth was scrambling for a replacement later in the NP is more indicative that he needed scum input for ranking recruits or just outright picking. The only thing that makes me question this is that Mikal likes being scum so I would expect to see him being more active, but it's also Thanksgiving so he could just be busy IRL. Supa just feels town to me, he's a player I often read on vibes, he posts like a nervous wreck when he's scum. Wryly I'm not as 100% on as some people, but I also don't trust my reads on her. I think she's never been scum? I do agree that I get townie vibes from her, but I hesitate because I don't know what to even look for if she is scum.

whiteflame

Mag1cman - Madoka, received contract offer

ILikePie5 - Received recruitment offer and rejected

Kohai - hitomi - emissary - received recruitment offer

RexFavilla - Accepted recruitment offer but did not go through

Vader - Received contract offer for hidden abilities, targeted Mikal

Wryly - Unrecruitable

Mikal (substitute for Casey_Risk) received offfer, accepted, did not go through

guess what? I also didn’t list magic as accepting the contract even though he did and flipped town. So just because I make a mistake doesn’t mean it’s alignment indicative.

which I think will happen, as people have basically been conditioned to murder their children and manage down their expectations for life while the rich lick the blood off their fingers and grow fat on it. A person with a child to feed will move heaven and earth to make sure he's paid enough to feed it, a person who just has to cancel one of their trips will manage down their expectations

One mistake is a chance, two mistakes are a coincidence, three are a pattern, and I've seen four from you.

Do us a favor. Go back to the other games and count the mistakes I made as town. I guarantee you’ll find far more than 4. None of these mistakes are AI.

Kyubey targeted me asking me to enter in a contract. I had a feeling this was an alignment changing role. I was intreagued so I initally accepted the offer but then retracted it after reading up on it (though it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the contract ended up failing). It was mod confirmed to me that this was an alignment changing role. We are dealing with a cult or a recruiter.

Much as I have problems with much of Kohai's posts, this isn't one of the ones that sticks out to me, even for the listed reasons. When I read the contents of the parenthesis - "though it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the contract ended up failing" - my take-away was that Thoth still told him the contract failed (which implied that he couldn't retract it). I agree he was dodgy about clarifying that and it took a while to nail him down on that front, but considering what he's said since, this does follow from the original post even if it wasn't explicitly stated there.

Whiteflame always feels scummy to me, so that's a given. I feel like he's being a bit deliberately obtuse on Kohai. Almost in a 'it's hard to make a man understand a thing when his wincon depends on him not understanding it' kind of way.

This is just ridiculous. I've called out Kohai behaviorally several times and said I believe that it's entirely plausible he's the recruit. I've been more focused on finding OG scum, but I was willing to lynch Kohai last DP in the absence of a strong OG scumread. Just because I'm not jumping onboard for each and every reason others have for supporting the Kohai lynch doesn't mean I'm pushing back on it.

I honestly buy the fact that he was converted. But we also need to find the OG scum as that’s the key to strategy. I’m perfectly okay with lynching Kohai for behavioral reasons alone. The shift in behavior is notable and all he’s been doing is being defensive, plain buddying, or dodging

I agree, I think locking down OG scum is the better choice, though Kohai has stood out as most likely for the recruit.

Top candidate for OG scum is Vader/WF

Top candidate for recruit is Kohai

Obviously disagree that I'm that likely to be the OG scum here, but I get being sussed here since I have no confirmation yet.

DP4. Ideally, I would like to be rolecopped

Seems like something you could use as confirmation next DP after stating your role this DP, but at least from your perspective, I get it.

I also buy the claim because Thoth explicitly told me before this game even started that he’s definitely going to include a custom role because no one besides Luna ever does. REF can’t be the OG scum here.

So you think this cop variant is that custom role?

Redirector is generally a scum role to begin with. Would you claim it as your true role? Idk, it’s WIFOM, but I dislike your behavior and POE has you and WF down as OG scum

I think he'd claim Redirector if he actually had it whether he's town or scum. I get the behavioral issues better, even if I think they're more townie coming from Vader.

So why is contract cop such a viable claim then? It literally could've only been used 1 DP and he didn't even claim it? That claim is less viable than a Redirector. It is also a fitting fake claim.

He did claim it and claimed that he used it twice. Not sure what you mean by viability of the claim, but yes, it could be a fake claim.

I have my suspicions on Kohai from DP2 but I also agree with your Pie assessment. For now what we know is Magic2 got redirected onto Magic1 and Magic2 / Mikal saw one other person visit. So we have confirmation of that at the minimum (in a NP with no NK I may add). Pie literally does not have any verifiability with his claims and has nothing to him

Part of the reason I'm interested in getting Pie's claim is to see if he has anything to verify him mechanically, but he seems to want to hold off until next DP to claim for some reason. Not sure why he's so reliant on getting Role Copped first.

Kind of have a hard time believing that Kohai's scummate would let him play it like he has. Feel like either he's town or his scummate is furious lol.

So you knew straight out of the gate that there was a contract mechanic involved because of your role. I assume DP1 you were pumping Thoth for details. What contract? Who gives it? What happens if I target Kyubey? Will my role even work NP1 or do players not count as recruited until NP2 because the recruitment counts as an NP1 action? Would like to know what Thoth's answers were.

Part of the reason I'm interested in getting Pie's claim is to see if he has anything to verify him mechanically, but he seems to want to hold off until next DP to claim for some reason. Not sure why he's so reliant on getting Role Copped first.

I don’t have anything to mod confirm myself, but I would like to wait till DP4 to claim and would ideally like to be rolecopped as I think it would solve the game DP4

These are great questions. And @ref why wouldn’t you warn us about the contract before going into n1

These are great questions. And @ref why wouldn’t you warn us about the contract before going into n1

I assume because it might have given away too much about his role, making him a target.

She just got even more townier lol