Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Mikal (3/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185), Lunatic (p#326)
Bullish (3/6): Helz (p#287), whiteflame (p#324), Mikal (p#329)
Not Voting (5): Casey_Risk, Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, Thoth (p#338)
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 1 hour.
Lunatic wrote:
Yeah I made this same point earlier. They were suspicious of each other for like 5 seconds then magically town read each other lol
Yeah. The way its voiced gets me a bit. Like Bullish's last comment:
Anyone still stuck on "3 investigatives is too much" is being obstinate.
To be fair they have a point citing a game where 3 invests existed. But the messaging of not just saying they disagree its the case but invalidating it as a concept that it is even reasonable for people to consider.
I was really hoping to see at least one of the three sorta clear themselves responding in the opposite way a scum would obviously be inclined to.
Helz wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Yeah I made this same point earlier. They were suspicious of each other for like 5 seconds then magically town read each other lol
Yeah. The way its voiced gets me a bit. Like Bullish's last comment:
Anyone still stuck on "3 investigatives is too much" is being obstinate.
To be fair they have a point citing a game where 3 invests existed. But the messaging of not just saying they disagree its the case but invalidating it as a concept that it is even reasonable for people to consider.
I was really hoping to see at least one of the three sorta clear themselves responding in the opposite way a scum would obviously be inclined to.
I mean if it weren't for the way Mikal set his POE up I would probably be equally suspicious of bullish here. I am like 40% Bullish, 60% Mikal. I don't think Bullish has done anything extremely townie either, but Mikals push on casey just reeks a bit scummy to me.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Again ill double down on this. The push on casey is literally how you solve. Not sure how people see it as scummy when it promises a pool of people to pick from [if they flip town] that we can consolidate on with night actions and poe. It amso covers a scum lynch in case they are lying so we dont walk off a cliff. The fact a lot of town, most of whom are very experienced in mafia are not considering this is what is troublesome
Ill 1v1 bullish cus I have to but that's not the correct play
The correct play is utility and making sure we dont end up in a situation tomorrow where we could potentially be picking from casey and whoever is left on that list.
Casey either flips scum and gg
Or flips town and we have an exact poe
This is not rocket science
It would help if there was legit behavioral reason to sus them besides inactivity which should be NAI for her given her past few games
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Mikal (3/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185), Lunatic (p#326)
Bullish (3/6): Helz (p#287), whiteflame (p#324), Mikal (p#329)
Not Voting (5): Casey_Risk, Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, Thoth (p#338)
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 23 hours.
She was a prime target and was the lynch until you redirected it to mago and was on the chopping block. You are telling me there ie no conceivable way where scum claimed that when op says they can ask questions about the game?
Just blindly believe it and walk off a cliff instead if validating the resulrs and playing it safe
Busdriver/Redirector would process before Magnet, Magnet would process before Lightning Rod, and all would process before Vanillaizer.
RexFavilla wrote:
Busdriver/Redirector would process before Magnet, Magnet would process before Lightning Rod, and all would process before Vanillaizer.
Alright, so if I'm getting this right, this would be how Mikal's and my night actions played out. I'll give two scenarios:
Redirector Scenario -
Bus Driver Scenario -
I believe I have that right.
And just to be absolutely clear, I was told my night action was successful, so the Lightning Rod went through.
The Vanillaizing was the result of one of three possible scenarios: either I drew it away from someone who was targeting Shining, it was Magnetized to me from Luna, or I was targeted directly by the Vanillaizer. I unfortunately cannot narrow it down from there, though I agree with the point someone made earlier (I think it was Rex) that Shining was an unlikely target for it, so I doubt the first explanation.
Banana wrote:
i have some things i could reveal but i dont see the impact of it yet so atm im trying to be a bit hidden with my thoughts on purpose, maybe i can reveal it next dp. but yes atm i think its mikal
If it would have an impact on who we lynch this DP, it's worth revealing. In general, though, I'd like to see more reads from you this DP.
whiteflame wrote:
RexFavilla wrote:
Busdriver/Redirector would process before Magnet, Magnet would process before Lightning Rod, and all would process before Vanillaizer.
Alright, so if I'm getting this right, this would be how Mikal's and my night actions played out. I'll give two scenarios:
Redirector Scenario -
Bus Driver Scenario -
I believe I have that right.
I double checked with these specific scenarios and will hear back shortly, but yes I think this is how it would shake out. So in the busdriver situation, the vanillaizer could be Luna targeting me but being pulled to you by Mikal, it could be someone targeting Shining, or it could be someone targeting you. In the redirector setting, this means that... well basically the same thing. I don't think Shining would be vanillaized. Luna claimed to target me which makes me thing he actually did. I was probably a good target for that role, as I refused to claim hinting at a power role. I don't recall you doing so. To be honest, this is making me think that Luna might be scum and that there is a busdriver, as it's kind of retarded to have Mikal's role and a redirector.
Pie confirming this would also mean that Mikal has been lying about what Pie communicated to him about ooo and how his role would interact? Which honestly he could be ballsy enough to do but why?
I can't copy and paste what pie told me but you can verify this with him
He told me
My role would process first in all situations
And that wfs would come after
Then I asked him could wf pull me to him and he said yes
So I pushed him on the verbiage of that and was like. Well that means wf is resolving before mine so wf is tech resolving first. And he said no
Then I kinda bitched at him over his wording choice and then he said its our problem if we dont understand it
To tldr
Pie said I resolve first
But also confirmed a rod would still pull me to it
His ooo is magnet rod
But he is saying the rod would still affect a magnet.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Mikal (3/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185), Lunatic (p#326)
Bullish (3/6): Helz (p#287), whiteflame (p#324), Mikal (p#329)
Not Voting (5): Casey_Risk, Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, Thoth (p#338)
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 22 hours.
Helz wrote:
Casey_Risk wrote:
Honestly, I was pretty surprised that I got a dream. I was expecting that someone would likely investigate me.
This is an odd assumption. As an invest you assumed you would be investigated... Is there something in your role that declares you being investigated changes things? What made you think there would be multiple investigators?
It would be like if I assumed as a protective I would get protected. That strikes me as a strange conclusion thats out of place from an uninformed town mindset.
To be honest, I didn't actually consider the possibility of me being the only informational role. I was expecting this game to be more like the one's I'm used to in this community's meta (which has been true so far), and a thirteen player Pie game with the only informational role being my own would be surprising to me, especially considering the somewhat luck-based nature of my role. I realize that I haven't explained it since I think everyone else is already familiar with it, but I'm a Dreamer. If no one visits me at night, I receive a dream containing three randomly chosen players, at least one of whom is mafia. But if anyone visits me, regardless of what their action is, I don't dream.
Helz wrote:
Can you explain your reads more clearly? Its D2 and I still have rather limited understanding of what your views are.
Thoth, casey, and Rex lean town. Unfortunate to say this but all three are more for mechanic reasons than for behavioural reasons.
Lunatic seems scummy for his character justification. However, behaviourally he's town, and associativity with casey, he's town whether casey is town or scum. This is why I deprioritize him in the dreamer results. If mikal flips town I would not know how to proceed.
Mikal is scummy. Seems like he's lining up a triple mislynch with casey --> me --> lunatic. His "TMI" read on me is total bullshit, as I've explained multiple times already. We both know what kind of games Pie likes. We've linked to one of his past games where he has 3 investigatives in a 9 player game. My last game on DART also has 3 investigatives and 9 players. It's completely reasonable for me and anyone else to expect that there are 3 (or more!) investigatives in this game. His push on casey is laughable, it's wrong to begin with AND it doesn't solve shit.
The only thing that tempers my read on him is that he's always like this. He's a huge gambit player, so as town he has this tendency to get some dumb ass conspiracy level gambit into his head and tunnel this shit of that conspiracy. This is what happened in the Amber game when he thought I was disguiser. The main difference here is that, the practical application of his theory is much more detrimental to town this game than that game.
The fact that whiteflame is buying mikal's shit ass theories is sus as hell. We also don't have a coherent explanation for why rex saw him visit Shining.
Shining, banana, and magic are null.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Mikal (3/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185), Lunatic (p#326)
Bullish (3/6): Helz (p#287), whiteflame (p#324), Mikal (p#329)
Not Voting (5): Casey_Risk, Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, Thoth (p#338)
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 18 hours.
If I were a dayvig with multiple clips I'd shoot all of you and let God sort it out.
Seriously though I am so stuck on this. I really want to townread Casey, but she's so good as scum and she's fooled me before. I have a scum read on Luna that still persists. I think he can be scum if Casey is town, it doesn't hurt scum to move a town wagon onto another town and Luna is more than capable of faking it. WF... I thought he was scummy DP1. But that's waned. I feel like Luna's flip would help me read him immensely, if he is the vanillaizer it town confirms him pretty much. Mikal.......
I really don't know about Mikal. I can see Casey, as from her perspective if she is town he is lining up a mislynch combo through her and other members of her dreamer POE who she scumreads less and he had a hardon for her last DP. You can expect the other members of the POE to be targeting him too. He, Luna, and Bullish all have scummy rolls, though I don't see Bullish pulling that nutty claim out of his ass. But I just can't shake the feeling that he doesn't feel as scummy to me as he did the last time he was scum.
I'm just going to come out and say it, loud and proud: I do like Bullish. I don't see him being scum. But I've also never seen his scum game or it was so long ago I forget it so take that with a grain of salt.
The colossal hardon he has for Mikal and his unwillingness to lynch Casey seem town to me. Scum caught in the POE would want to lynch the dreamer to take out a town power role, because wasting a NK on her will confirm the POE and trap them further so it's best to trick town into mislynching them and then target another power role. Killing other people in the POE, if you're scum, will set you up in a 1v1 with the remaining player. I have more thoughts on this but better to save them for next DP.
I do think it's possible that Casey pulled a gambit and put a scummate in POE because she thought she would be on the chopping block when Mago flipped town. Think of the incentives. If we lynch the scum in POE (basically a bus with guaranteed mislynches) it will confirm Casey in the eyes of town and allow her to avoid an almost certain lynch that was coming her way in a couple DPs without this gambit. If we kill her and she flips scum, we will exonerate the people in the POE, including her scum buddy. When you look at the incentive structure, this is a good play objectively compared to the alternative of her always being on the chopping block. Just wanted to get that out there in case they murderize me tonight.
When it comes to which person in POE would be her scummate, well that's an interesting question I need to mull on a bit longer. But my gut says Luna because he also had egg on his face from the Mago lynch, was damaged goods, and is good in a cagefight. Also, if she put two town players in who both would have otherwise gotten town cred for trying to save Mago... well that would be pretty diabolical, wouldn't it?
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
Mikal (3/6): Bullish (p#146), Banana (p#185), Lunatic (p#326)
Bullish (3/6): Helz (p#287), whiteflame (p#324), Mikal (p#329)
Not Voting (5): Casey_Risk, Mag1cman (p#127), RexFavilla, Shining, Thoth (p#338)
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day phase ends in 17 hours.
VTL: Lunatic
I think I'm going to start my own train, just because him being scum is the nexus of so many of my crackpot theories.
lol
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
But my gut says Luna because he also had egg on his face from the Mago lynch, was damaged goods, and is good in a cagefight
Not this game, I don't have the time atm to put up a good cage fight.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
I haven't rolled scum in so long, I may have forgotten how to play scum
Alright. Sorry to be inactive. Been a little busy these past days. Still not liking Lunatic. ISOing him.
Okay, so still not liking Lunatic. I honestly find it hard to believe we went from Lunatic Koolaid maning into the thread hours before DP1 ending saying Magoroth is totally scum and strong arming us into lynching him to Lunatic saying Casey is a little sus. His claim seems off to me as well. My PM is more justified than "lol Krypton means hidden".
Seriously though I am so stuck on this. I really want to townread Casey, but she's so good as scum and she's fooled me before.
I appreciate the compliment, but I am NOT good as scum 💀
More to the point, I've been thinking this game over, and the more I think about it, the harder I find it to scumread Luna here. He derailed my lynch which would make little sense if he was scum, and nothing in particular about his behavior this DP stands out to me as scummy. I like the way he's been analyzing results.
That leaves me with Bullish/Mikal by PoE, and honestly? I'm leaning Bullish here. His strong defensiveness and argumentative behavior feels very different from what I expect from him. I normally expect Bullish to just respond to an argument and then be like, "whatever. I said my peace, if you want to disagree with me you're allowed to be dumb." I do have a kind of conspiracy theory of my own here involving Shining and/or Magic as his partner. Magic was also in CoD Black Ops Mafia and was the Mind Controller. NP1 he mind controlled Shining and learned he was the Time Traveler. I can definitely see him of all people remembering that role and suggesting it to Bullish here. Magic is very attentive like that. (BTW Magic, if I am right about this, I'm sorry you rolled scum three times in a row. That sucks).
Idk, I might be wrong here, but my gut is telling me the solution is among (Bullish, Banana, Shining, Magic). Of course, this theory is all contingent on Bullish actually being scum, and I'm not 100% on that. But I do feel like he might be the most likely to be scum in my dream, which makes me want to vote for him here.
