Apocalypse Mafia - DP1

Lunatic - tossup

Don't like him not voting anyone for pressure this late. He's not really on top of anyone either, with is a scum tell of his. One thing though: His t/t t/m assessment of Pie v Kohai goes against the grain of what I'd think scum Lunatic would do... which is to take some shots and let town destroy each other on Kohai/Pie... unless he is paired with one of the two.

2:06 PM

It's a no-lynch. :(

Top theory is Whiteflame-Vader atm. Lunatic, Kohai, and JenKiggans floating around. There's still a world in which Banana, Thoth, and Pie are scum, none are lock town imo.

If I were to rank

Banana

Thoth

Pie

---------------------

Kohai

Lunatic

JenKiggans26

----------------------

Whiteflame

Vader

downgrading Pie to slight town tbh

admittedly i don't like how Pie disappeared for the end of this DP when it looked like he was going to be here for it

DP over. no hammer.

Well with that logic we wouldn’t ask for claims at all right? No idea is that let’s say he is scum, he uses the fake character claim. He still has to provide justification and the fake role. Thats where they get caught.

wait, how do you know it's a fake character claim?

Scum slip?

tomorrow we should get Pie's claim, jenkiggan's claim, and whoever we sus beyond that. Moving Pie back to tossup, maybe even solid scum... eh, tossup for now. He needs to be solved I think.

Originally Posted by Bullish on 9/21/2026 at 3:08 AM (post #126)

Official Vote Count

Pie (3/5) - Kohai, Thoth, magic

Kohai (1/5) - Pie

Not voting: Banana, JenKiggans, lunatic, Vader, whiteflame

DP1 ends 09/22 14:00 EST

OH 9/22

nvm we have more time smh

ok but that's where I'm at rn. Looking for a response from Pie on #156

why did I have 9/21 in my head?????

Official Vote Count

Pie (2/5) - Kohai, Thoth,

Kohai (1/5) - Pie

JenKiggans (1/5) - magic

Not voting: Banana, JenKiggans, lunatic, Vader, whiteflame

DP1 ends in ~23 hours, at 09/22 14:00 EST

Magic chill. DP ends tomorrow. Ill catch up soonish.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 12:01 PM (post #138)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/21/2026 at 11:19 AM (post #134)

If you want my full claim, just verbally say it, no need to vote me. I don’t want a mishammer.

do it so we can move on and least get one claim down... after that I might still want to look at kohai but i'm not liking lunatic's and whiteflame's approaches

Youre already on my wagon

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 12:43 PM (post #146)

Thoth - solid town

I don't think scum is likely to claim that their role contradicts the OP. Possible for town cred but it's drawing a lot of attention so it's hard for me to call Thoth scum here. Only argument is opportunism - that he voted Pie bc Kohai did. But that's not a given. I can see why town would sus Pie's vote on Kohai, so I can't blame him for it. That being said...

Pie - solid town

So, enters the DP immedately pressuring Kohai. Now that could be him distancing Kohai, or just looking to get a mislynch. His stated reasons are that Kohai folds under pressure and that town needs to generate activity. Seems like an RVS vote, maybe looking to get his claim just to nail him down bc he can be mislynch bait, or reaction testing, or all of the above. #19 #32 #72 #73 all seem consistent in that regard. When pressured, he does his strategy of making sure he claims at L-1 to ensure at least two townies want his claim... it's good for info.

I think Pie can fake all of this. But the consistency looks nice and something that can be faked is not inherently scummy; I'm realizing that I started out with the assumption of scum Pie when I shouldn't have. And nothing really strikes as off upon rereading him. So I'm gonna flip my read and go town on Pie.

Unvote

Kohai - tossup

Enters the DP, immediately on the defensive, challenging Pie. Voting off Pie voting him. For Kohai idt the OMGUS is scummy in this situation. Not much else to go off of. He's disappeared, but he's got a holiday today, and late yesterday.

Only thing that feels off is #51. LIke it could be preparing a bad claim/covering for one. Mafia typically has an incentive to have a rational claim, making sure it's air tight. Warnings like that are from players who don't have the strongest fake claiming. I can see Kohai fitting in that camp. But it's no guarantee. I can see Kohai actually just having a stretched justification, given what Thoth has softed.

I continue this in a second but I'm locking in and now I think we should move on from Pie and Kohai. Feels like a dead end.

Idk who to pressure rn.

Pie, and Thoth, what are your thoughts?

Nail Kohai and then go for the wishy washy people ie Vader

I promise I'll get into this more this evening, been running around ever since services this morning.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 12:53 PM (post #148)

Originally Posted by Bullish on 9/21/2026 at 3:08 AM (post #126)

Official Vote Count

Pie (3/5) - Kohai, Thoth, magic

Kohai (1/5) - Pie

Not voting: Banana, JenKiggans, lunatic, Vader, whiteflame

DP1 ends 09/22 14:00 EST

DP ENDS IN SEVEN MINUTES

it ends tomorrow bruh

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 1:13 PM (post #156)

Well with that logic we wouldn’t ask for claims at all right? No idea is that let’s say he is scum, he uses the fake character claim. He still has to provide justification and the fake role. Thats where they get caught.

wait, how do you know it's a fake character claim?

Scum slip?

It was a hypothetical. It could be the other way around as well. You still need a justification

I want to go back to magic because the more I look at his game, the more I don't really like what he's doing.

I don't think there's one huge smoking gun here, but his overall progression feels really safe. He's got a lot of thoughts and a lot of possibilities, but he doesn't seem to actually want to lock himself into anything until he knows where the game is going.The Pie/Kohai stuff is probably the biggest example of this.

Magic starts out with:

"If I were to suspect two players based on what I've seen so far, it would be Pie + Kohai again"

Which is a pretty convenient spot to be in. Those are already the two people involved in the main conflict, so magic gets to have both of them as potential scum without really having to pick one.

Then he votes Pie to get a claim, spends a decent amount of time entertaining Pie as a possible scumread, and then suddenly gets to:

"Pie - solid town"

And honestly, I don't really buy the reasoning for that switch.It's basically just "I went back and reread it and nothing really struck me as off anymore." That's not really a strong reason to go from voting someone and wanting their claim to calling them solid town. And then what happens? Kohai becomes the obvious person to focus on. That's what I don't like about the progression. It feels less like magic is actually solving the Pie/Kohai situation and more like he's keeping both sides available so that he can move onto whichever one becomes easier to push. The claim stuff also bothers me. Magic keeps wanting claims from people, but the setup specifically tells us scum can fake one role/character claim. So I'm not sure why getting a claim is being treated as some kind of major way to resolve these reads. It feels more like a reason to put pressure on someone than an actual method of figuring out their alignment.

I also think his read on Thoth is worth looking at. Magic has Thoth as a pretty strong townread largely because of the role PM stuff, but we've already seen that the PM information itself isn't necessarily reliable. So I don't really understand why that should carry as much weight as it does.

And then there's me.Magic's read on me is basically just "not enough on Lunatic" / "need to see more from Lunatic," and eventually I'm sitting in the same general pool as Kohai and Jen. But I don't feel like magic has actually tried to solve me. He's mostly just left me as a possible suspect because he hasn't decided what to do with me yet. That's the part that keeps bothering me. I'm not saying magic can't have wrong reads. Obviously he can. I'm saying his reads seem very easy to change depending on where the game is going. If Pie is scum, he can point back to all the times he suspected Pie.

If Pie is town, he's already moved away from that and can point to the fact that he reconsidered.

If Kohai is scum, he's got the Kohai suspicion ready.

And if Kohai is town, well, he was only a "tossup" for most of the game anyway.

There's not much risk in any of these positions.

That's what makes me uncomfortable with him. I expect town to eventually have to put themselves out there a little bit and say "this is the world I think we're in, and here's why."

Magic seems to be doing the opposite. He's keeping multiple worlds open and letting the game tell him which one is safest to pursue.

Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's the thing I'd want magic to actually answer.

Because right now I don't really feel like I'm seeing someone trying to solve the game. I'm seeing someone trying to make sure he has a reason for whichever way the game ends up going.

VTL Magic

I'll be back after yom kippur formally ends, but I wanted to respond to a few points first

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/21/2026 at 2:50 AM (post #124)

did u vote pie because his behavior was scummy, or because u thought his demand for you to claim was harmful to the game? if neither, plz explain.

what specifically seperates pie as mafia here from his town aggressiveness to create reactions?

is pie a genuine read or just someone u are annoyed with?

In the previous game where pie and I were scum buddies the first thing he did was try and get claims. In the previous game, he did this by targetting Thoth and try and compell him to full claim day 1 under the guise of "he's a risk to town because of previous play."

In this game, I'm especially skeptical about people forcing claims early. The more claims we get the easier it is for scum to hammer out fake claims.

what were u hoping to accomplish with the counter vote?

Put pressure on him to drop the horrible idea of early claims + I had an early scum lean on him.

when u said ur character justification and role dont fit together, why did you reveal that information, and what did u expect town to infer from it?

You'll find out when I full claim. Unfortuntely y'all are stuck with me the rest of the game.

could that statement explain an incoherent fake claim you were setting up? why should we not intepret it that way?

who besides pie has treated your conflict oppertunistically in your opinion?

Will go in depth later on.

if pie flipped town and you were an investigator, who would you investigate and why?

JenKiggans2026 because this slot has given us nothing. I'd rather not waste a lynch on them and resolve them via investigative or wait until we have a replacement.

can you rank the rest of the players in order of most suspicious to least suspicious?

Will do so after yom kippur

Impressive detecting. I've always been really good at mafia irl but this being my first time playing it online it's proving to be difficult because I can't watch people's posture, follow their eyes, listen to their tone, etc. I might be a useless member of this round because I'm still trying to get used to it, sorry

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/21/2026 at 4:25 PM (post #168)

I want to go back to magic because the more I look at his game, the more I don't really like what he's doing.

I don't think there's one huge smoking gun here, but his overall progression feels really safe. He's got a lot of thoughts and a lot of possibilities, but he doesn't seem to actually want to lock himself into anything until he knows where the game is going.The Pie/Kohai stuff is probably the biggest example of this.

Brother, half the people in this game haven't posted much at all. Of course, the reads are going to be early, and of course there are a lot of possibilities.

Magic starts out with:

"If I were to suspect two players based on what I've seen so far, it would be Pie + Kohai again"

Which is a pretty convenient spot to be in. Those are already the two people involved in the main conflict, so magic gets to have both of them as potential scum without really having to pick one.

Then he votes Pie to get a claim, spends a decent amount of time entertaining Pie as a possible scumread, and then suddenly gets to:

"Pie - solid town"

And honestly, I don't really buy the reasoning for that switch.It's basically just "I went back and reread it and nothing really struck me as off anymore." That's not really a strong reason to go from voting someone and wanting their claim to calling them solid town. And then what happens? Kohai becomes the obvious person to focus on. That's what I don't like about the progression. It feels less like magic is actually solving the Pie/Kohai situation and more like he's keeping both sides available so that he can move onto whichever one becomes easier to push. The claim stuff also bothers me. Magic keeps wanting claims from people, but the setup specifically tells us scum can fake one role/character claim. So I'm not sure why getting a claim is being treated as some kind of major way to resolve these reads. It feels more like a reason to put pressure on someone than an actual method of figuring out their alignment.

Pre-lock-in vs post-lock-in Mag1c will have different reads. The more I read Pie the second time around, the more I realized I had started with a bad confirmation bias on him. And so I flipped the read.

I also think his read on Thoth is worth looking at. Magic has Thoth as a pretty strong townread largely because of the role PM stuff, but we've already seen that the PM information itself isn't necessarily reliable. So I don't really understand why that should carry as much weight as it does.

You'd have to assume he'd have a claim ready that early. Maybe scum were given a full claim, maybe they were given a character, maybe a role. We don't know, but it is obvious that his soft draws a lot of attention to himself. "My role PM contradicts something in the OP"... just isn't what scum says.

And then there's me.Magic's read on me is basically just "not enough on Lunatic" / "need to see more from Lunatic," and eventually I'm sitting in the same general pool as Kohai and Jen. But I don't feel like magic has actually tried to solve me. He's mostly just left me as a possible suspect because he hasn't decided what to do with me yet. That's the part that keeps bothering me. I'm not saying magic can't have wrong reads. Obviously he can. I'm saying his reads seem very easy to change depending on where the game is going. If Pie is scum, he can point back to all the times he suspected Pie.

I don't know what to do with you yet because I you've done a couple things that could be scummy and couple things that could be towny. I'm not swayed one way or the other on you yet. Not that deep.

If Pie is town, he's already moved away from that and can point to the fact that he reconsidered.

If Kohai is scum, he's got the Kohai suspicion ready.

And if Kohai is town, well, he was only a "tossup" for most of the game anyway.

There's not much risk in any of these positions.

Any bad townread, I'd argue is risky for me. Riskiest one is clearly Thoth based on you sussing that one. And you're ignoring that I've already put scumreads on Vader and Whiteflame.

That's what makes me uncomfortable with him. I expect town to eventually have to put themselves out there a little bit and say "this is the world I think we're in, and here's why."

Magic seems to be doing the opposite. He's keeping multiple worlds open and letting the game tell him which one is safest to pursue.

Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's the thing I'd want magic to actually answer.

Because right now I don't really feel like I'm seeing someone trying to solve the game. I'm seeing someone trying to make sure he has a reason for whichever way the game ends up going.

VTL Magic

Yeah, this is not a genuine case at all. I might vote you.

Originally Posted by JenKiggans2026 on 9/21/2026 at 6:06 PM (post #171)

Impressive detecting. I've always been really good at mafia irl but this being my first time playing it online it's proving to be difficult because I can't watch people's posture, follow their eyes, listen to their tone, etc. I might be a useless member of this round because I'm still trying to get used to it, sorry

So, you've been lurking the whole game?

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/21/2026 at 5:01 PM (post #170)

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/21/2026 at 2:50 AM (post #124)

did u vote pie because his behavior was scummy, or because u thought his demand for you to claim was harmful to the game? if neither, plz explain.

what specifically seperates pie as mafia here from his town aggressiveness to create reactions?

is pie a genuine read or just someone u are annoyed with?

In the previous game where pie and I were scum buddies the first thing he did was try and get claims. In the previous game, he did this by targetting Thoth and try and compell him to full claim day 1 under the guise of "he's a risk to town because of previous play."

In this game, I'm especially skeptical about people forcing claims early. The more claims we get the easier it is for scum to hammer out fake claims.

We do have to get claims at some point. I can agree it shouldn't be day one of a DP (Usually) but we need the info. The fear of a fake claim shouldn't deter us.

Ofc Pie's stated reason was just to see if you'd slip up, and generate activity. He did accomplish the latter.

At the gym right now catching up on posts. Been at work at busy all day and am transitioning into a new role so gonna be busy during the day most of the time

No, I actually was sick. I just got out of the emergency room this morning so I started at the top and read down to the bottom like two hours ago

Banana has a lot fo well thought out points and very good analysis so far right away. I really like the analysis here

Gonna be very honest because at that time I just saw that he was teasing something with his role and knowing the game mechanics being wrong and I think that itself wasn’t as fluff as I thought but I definetly see a case for him putting fluff more posts into the game.

Also, love your profile picture

I don’t want to act defensive/give strategy but I very rarely put votes to get L-1 to get pressure out of paranoia of scum quick hammer. I vote if I want to lynch