Im a bit of the opinion that maybe its Cain, Maybe its Random. But in almost every situation its Brand as the other Mafia
Im a bit of the opinion that maybe its Cain, Maybe its Random. But in almost every situation its Brand as the other Mafia
Made it back in time. My eod timing this game has sucked.
A-Bleys wrote:
I will almost certainly be able to pop in at least for 3 minutes to change my vote if you are Deidre work out a solve that the two of you buy more. Please think about some of the things I pinged you about earlier
Will do. A part of my mind feels that Random/Caine are WvT and never WvW
But also pretty much all roads lead to Brand being scum. A part of me wants to just hit there but its also a lazy response and I need to dig and solve.
A part of me feels Rand/Caine is peoples focus but pretty much everyone views Brand as scum..
I need to read more given D and Bleys both are focused on Caine
I am pretty hesitant on Caine. It requires a hard wolf eating wolf play for them to be scum imo and thats just not something that happens. I do not think I have ever seen people do it outside of when I am teamed with them and make it happen.
Wrapping up Mother’s Day stuffs. Should be home in an hour or so.
skimming the thread people need to chill. Independent of winning playing a game is about having fun and I think some are not having that
A-Bleys wrote:
I'm more focused on the necessity of jailor/regent both being in the game to balance the setup than why they shouldn't claim.
Well the game is difficult to balance with the role list. Jailor absolutely felt necessary. My bet was Regent+Jailor+Coroner/1 shot super cop.
With the lack of a real invest I felt that self confirming roles existed. Jailor was the only protective and also covered kills. Regent is the crier and had self confirming ability as well as had the ability to coordinating the town from a confirmed town voice without revealing. Those two made a lot of sense.
Im fighting my confirmation bias to just say its exactly Random/Brand right now. Randoms ATE is something my lizard brain is chewing on because it felt like genuine "Fuck you guys I am town"
Caine still has the potential of a super deep wolf play eating a wolf for town cred but I have not really moved from town reading them tbh
Bleys seems good enough as a player that I will stay paranoid but unless I identify something that really pings me I doubt I will land there..
Its honestly not that bad of a thing that we did not end up having to deal with Jailor counter claims but a part of me woulda loved a hard 2v2 showdown for the entire game. Only seen that happen once before where wolves put all the chips on the table that hard.
Im quite surprised that both Julian was legit the Jailor and no scum made a move for the claim.
I will confirm I was not jailed
Nearing hammer time and I have lunch with my mom in a bit for mothers day but I will try to wrap up my thoughts and see where I land. Without tracking the positions it feels like people are split between Caine and Random and everyone seems to suspect Brand.
A-Bleys wrote:
Llewella, may you elaborate more on the game balance point you made here?
I will say for a second time Jailor should never reveal. Take that shit to your death if Regent is alive. I think its highly likely they exist because game balance may not be possible without Regent/Jailor both existing.
Bit of hyperbole. I think the community has a toxic habit of both claiming and demanding claims. In that moment it was about a Jailor not bailing themselves out of pressure with a fast claim and instead using their words and such. That hiding a Jailor keeps the Regent alive and they should fight under pressure without leaning on mech kinda deal
A-Caine wrote:
Can we please get some activity going?
Closing up social obligations for the night but it was a birthday party for an army ranger. You can imagine how much I can give to focus right now.
Off the top of my head there were multiple potential roles that could screw with last wills and such in the setup
This is also why I so strongly thought there would be a Godfather btw.
I expected one. The thing I believe this setup is based off of is called Chicago. A variant of mafia where janitors clean roles/last wills and coroners invest checking the dead to get info and learn who visited them (depending on the version.) I said something about it D1.
But no. Im just VT. Part of why I was trying to look like a PR flying under the radar. That did not work out apparently.
And yes, I claimed Prince while reference a post seeding my pronoun thing for being given a female flavor but a male role.
Pretty sure when I first made that pronoun comment people picked up on how out of place it was without making the connection.
A-Deirdre wrote:
I'm still chewing over why Fiona would have such an epic crash-out. Maybe it's because he just wanted to do this his own way and wasn't willing to listen to his scum partners. Maybe it's because those same scum partners weren't super active, which would hardly be a first. That's not to say I'm sussing people who were offline for much of the last DP, especially since certain players are more likely to do the work even if they have limited time (can think of a couple). Fiona could've done all this to get bussed, maybe thinking he just wanted out of the game and to flame out in a way that could help his partners. Each of those would lead me in different directions for sussing, so this is still pretty complicated.
Yeah, I have eaten a wolf for the town cred before. It is possible.
For claims I think you should pick the order they claim in. You are the only one thats unquestionable as potentially teamed.
If I had a vote I would say Brand claim first.
We should wrap up claims before we move into votes imo
To be fair those kinds of mistakes happen.
My trick to preventing them is I use a different browser for anon games as I do for anything else. Can't even say how many times I have screwed that up accidentally.
I need more time to look deeper into Brand/Random.
Gotta do that birthday thing but to stay concise two bits that are stuck in my head are-
Fiona voices "We have five minutes. Just go with the larger wagon" (Potentially saving Brand?)
Caine was on Flora and waps to Martin tieing the two wagons. (Hard choice made here to pick Martin over Brand)
Im mind melding with quite a bit of what Bleys is voicing as I dig through the thread and follow their thought process.
A-Bleys wrote:
A-Llewella wrote:
A-Bleys wrote:
Why not Caine?
I am not sure I understand the question.
As far as todays elimination I just generally felt they were towny digging through the Fiona situation. I looked at how each player interacted with Fiona and how Fiona interacted with them between you, Brand, Random and Caine. Cain was the one who looked good to me hard shoving Fiona D2 that looked far past bussing to me.
The question is irt when you told me after I replaced in that you saw 2 scum between me, Brand, and Random.
I haven't finished catching up yet, but I'm eager to read the interactions on the Fiona lynch.
Reading back through the day so far looks like I did not respond to this.
"They were the first to push consideration on if we were in Mylo and such. They were shoving Fiona prior to the claim situation and then they hard shoved Fiona throughout the day. I think its unlikely they are Mafia bussing especially given Fiona was not pushing back on them as I typically see with theater. Fiona was appealing to them which comes more from a wolf trying to placate a town."
This was my reasoning for saying that as I entered D3. Paraphrased from my LW.
In general I walk into day phases with players I intend to focus on and sort. This one I town read Cain from D2 and Geralt overall, Regent is confirmed town. That left You, Brand and Random.
I do not see 3p as being a part of the game. My lazy thought was simply game balance. Game already feels quite scum sided for balance but the Mafia played greedy and got hurt for it allowing for the 2 confirmed town situation.
But to unpack 3p potential-
Gunsmith- Nobody claims getting a gun, We have not seen an extra kill. So no
Associate- Possible? Have not seen any hard defending yet and they could simply claim and both sides would want the extra vote
Rogue Ty'iga- No flip so far so super unlikely. Also so weirdly built I doubt mag would even run the role
Sadist- Only 1 jailing report. LW reflected they interacted with their target. Does not mechanically fit and does not exist
Executioner- Extremely unlikely
I do need to evaluate a bit more given Deirdre voiced concerns and they are the other player I view as town and want to triangulate reads with but in general after digging quite a bit N2 I walked into D3 looking at a focus of Random, Bleys, and Brand. (And yes, I did town read Garald I can post my thoughts of them from my lw if anyone is interested in what I was looking at there)
A-Bleys wrote:
Why not Caine?
I am not sure I understand the question.
As far as todays elimination I just generally felt they were towny digging through the Fiona situation. I looked at how each player interacted with Fiona and how Fiona interacted with them between you, Brand, Random and Caine. Cain was the one who looked good to me hard shoving Fiona D2 that looked far past bussing to me.
I like to kill off weaker or less active players because I want a challenge interacting with the more engaged and accurate players. I feel like Llewella would view things the same way. There's nuances such as Llwella not having final say over who to kill, etc, etc, but I don't want to delve too deep into them because this is more of a note of interest than an actual read.
I will say that yes, I do often like to target down inactives to improve games. That depends on my team though. Generally as Mafia I will ask players if they care more about winning or having fun and I work with what the team wants or sometimes I do silly shit for fun like RNG it but instead of a normal RNG we name players in the game after marbles and watch a marble race video together. If your not having fun playing a game then what is the point?
A-Deirdre wrote:
We are really shooting ourselves in the foot as we feed scum info and ideas before they role claim.
If scum don’t know this much, I’d be shocked, but fair enough.
Sure, but they may not have considered that they could potentially claim Jailor without a CC and then we gotta debate if they are confirmed town or if the Mafia got a lucky shot off. I will be more suspicious of a "Last claiming player" situation claiming Jailor.
(That said pretty pretty please can we not say another word about about this very specific subject until people claim. Like very litterly not even one after this post until claims happen)
A-Deirdre wrote:
A-Caine wrote:
A-Bleys wrote:
Maiden, I have 1600 posts to read through before I have behavioral reads.
I think you misunderstand my concern. I understand that a jailor exists. What I am asking is if anyone has been jailed after the Mafia used their illusionist. I want to confirm that we know the jailor is not dead before we give a jailor claim a free green check.
This is actually a great point. Everyone needs to claim if they had been jailed or not.
I have not been jailed
I haven’t either. I guess there is some chance that the first NK on Julian killed the Jailor, since their jailing of Pie should have happened before the NK resolved. If that’s the case, this is going to get dicey.
We are really shooting ourselves in the foot as we feed scum info and ideas before they role claim.
Claiming jailed first just cuts out the potential of a Mafia being forced to claim first and getting it wrong easily solving the day mechanically. (Or they put their entire team on the line and we solve the game today with more information to play with)
A-Caine wrote:
A-Llewella wrote:
Don't you mean Jailor should claim first and then get verified by a person confirming they were jailed?
No because mafia can fake claim jailor and fake their partner as tbe person they jailed.
I would prefer that. Then the Mafia have to bet their entire team in 1 swing.
I think it would be cleaner to get claims from everyone, then Jailor verifys their target, then player confirms. Lessens the chance of a 1v1 with a 50/50 standoff on 'who claims target first'
If the mafia does it and gets it wrong they die, easy day
If the mafia does it and gets it right its the standard 50/50
If the town does it first mafia will just echo the claim and its your standard 1v1
All thats a gamble they would probably not want and we will just narrow down the PoE cleanly
Don't you mean Jailor should claim first and then get verified by a person confirming they were jailed?