I 'do think it makes sense to seek the views of many people,
And that it is good to avoid yes men, who are not actually thinking for themselves, just parroting.
In debates, practical view is often a mixture of two extremes,
Rather than on extreme or the other.
Also quick note to self,
Too many cooks, single vision better sometimes,
Weak compromises, half measures, no one happy,
Multiple correct answers sometimes.
I am fond of Egoism and also define myself as a Nihilist.
. . . Course I am not wholly either of those. In a sense.
Not 'so selfish, not 'so nihilist that I fall as puppet with strings cut.
I definitely borrow a good chuck of my foundational philosophy from 'common sense', not practical otherwise.
Have to agree to 'some rules and definitions, otherwise can't play the game of life.
. . .
I don't know what Normative Ethics 'really is,
But I've sometimes mused that such 'is mine and most people's Ethics.
Their norms in Nature and Nurture,
Though admittedly people often want to 'change their norms, They don't 'always want to change them 'so drastically, only a little bit, or only while keeping to norms and traditions they are used to.
I mindfully do not follow my morals and ethics because they are 'right, maybe.
But because they are what I am used to.
People 'easily justify post decision/action/existence, I have heard.
In debates, I often see people of fine ability, able to justify either side.
Good debater, good rhetoric, not the same as good person, I think some Greek once said.
. . . Some people disliked the Sophists I think I have heard.
But I am veering conversation into pointless Nihilism.
. . .
Individuals and crowds, ability to make estimations.
. . . It 'does seem better to me, that per your first post, that crowds 'have some justification that you agree with,
Not have it be an appeal to crowd or authority,
Though it can be difficult to 'avoid such.
Knowledge can be difficult to obtain, see, and understand.
Uneducated person guessing at jellybeans, is worse than mathematician guessing at jellybeans, maybe.
Even if both use laws and theorems,
As 'everyone has laws and theorems maybe, but maybe professional and long term mathematician better at it.
Well, I've got to go for a bit, back in an hour or few.
I'd imagine the first argument people think of against child pornography is they see it as an evil act, depiction or real person.
And that experiencing it vicariously is an evil shameful behavior.
. . . Used to be more censorship on violence, gore, torture, nudity, sex, in America I think.
. . . I suppose CP is maybe more niche than the other categories, or perhaps simply seen as more evil/sick/perversion.
Regular TV after all maybe less explicit even in depictions.
. . . Then again, some horror movies awful explicit with the gore and torture.
. . . I'd 'assume that privacy and right to dignity, is reason News outlets ideally don't show executions by terrorists lopping people's heads off, or why there was some outrage about people spreading video of Charlie Kirks death.
. . . Not that News Outlets would show 'depictions of fictional events either.
. . .
I 'do think crowd is useful for measurement, gauging of a situation.
Though as a rule of thumb.
Crowds 'can be wrong, or manipulated.
Plenty of mobs in history killing or destroying unfairly,
Panicking over nothing.
. . . Though there is difference between short term and long term crowds, I suppose.
Though even short term crowds can be useful, sometimes the Dam 'has broke.
Even in the long of it though,
People can be fond of norms, controlled by institutions, or environmentally pushed to wrong conclusions.
Eh, I think women are able to serve in war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko
But it depends a bit on 'how they serve in war, which varies by country.
Your reproduction argument for instance, varies by country.
America is big on Freedom, Individuality.
Less so on Tribe of 'People, Ethnicity, Religion.
Lot of Women's Rights in America, they're not just Reproductive Machines.
There's also the problem of implementation,
Lyudmila Pavlichenko 'great soldier I'd assume.
Maybe she could and maybe she couldn't pass USA modern standards for soldiers.
Maybe she would maybe she wouldn't get injured by some trainings, requirements, expectations we have for soldiers in America.
Maybe we have many uneeded harmful trainings, requirements, trainings for soldiers.
I 'think women 'are physically weaker than men, 'generally speaking.
Maybe get injured more.
. . . But does one 'need certain trainings, requirements, expectations of training we have for soldiers in modern USA?
Maybe not.
Bravery, good aim with a gun, maybe all one needs.
. . . Course, Russia was grinder in WW2 I've heard, not as if they had high intentions of people surviving all the time maybe.
Course there is other knowledge that is good, such as hygiene in field, awareness of leaving evidence for enemy intelligence, not smoking at night in view of sniper.
Lot of knowledge not 'physical though.
. . . I don't really 'know though. I don't have experience or study in subject of physical strength in wartime.
I 'suspect modern US military bit too focused on physical fitness and standards,
And training, forced marches, carrying heavy packs, maybe causes unnecessary injuries.
. . . Not that training or standards are bad,
Just maybe way US military currently is, harmful to body often.
At a certain size, does something stop being a vehicle, and instead a moving building?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawler-transporter
I'd figure the nature of a debate site 'prevents an echo chamber,
Since it's ideally people disagreeing with you.
Course, maybe that's more in the 'debates, than the forums.
My profile picture is close enough yeah,
And if I ever cut my hair or shave my beard, I'll update it.
Well, most my thoughts aren't likely to be applied yeah,
Still, it's a hobby.
Borgninism?
I recognize the actor name, but am not too familiar with him.
I was thinking on change in society,
One might inspire a people, but only 'partially I'd imagine.
People have their own minds,
The difficulty of getting a horse to drink, even if they are led to water.
. . .
And if one had some high ideal, or hatred of other's actions,
If one had the power and the will,
In the end it would be force?
At times, people with certain ideals, find certain situations unacceptable.
They try to drag the people out of a situation, kicking and screaming if they must.
. . .
But of course, such is only extremes. Well, for most people.
. . . What would the acceptable response to slavery in America have been for a Pro Abolitionist?
John Brown's Rebellion?
. . . But then, actions are tempered by Means and Expectations.
. . . Or if a worse situation might occur from force.
If you 'cannot force compliance, then persuasion and indirect means result.
. . .
I'm not thinking of anything in particular,
Just thinking on people in general,
Ideals we have.
Freedom for example,
One 'needs people often, to enact a change, in rebellion for example,
Because 'one person, does not usually have 'power.
"I think armies give you power." - Tyrion Lannister
Course once one 'has power, subtly and persuasion can be dispensed with to a degree, though they probably ought not.
And yet, in not dispensed with, one see's the lie, iron fist hidden behind a velvet glove so to speak.
The hypocrisy, two facedness of it.
. . . Even for fine ideals,
Force is the thing, just a question of how, what levers to use.
. . .
. . .
Course, the ideal of Democracy perhaps,
Is that people are generally good and/or selfish.
That they will generally choose good over evil, or prevent individuals and groups from being too destructive to the whole.
. . .
Does slavery fit into that second thought?
One creates a small outgroup. . . The 'whole can be convinced they can be without the small outgroup,
And if not inspired by ideals, or short term selfish, error ensues.
. . . A certain 'level type of self interest is required,
Not level, for it is perhaps not higher or lower.
. . . A recognition of small evils being a danger. . . But I think people often easily shrug away or tolerate small evils.
. . . Course there is still the difficulty of enacting good upon the unwilling.
I sometimes worry how much new media might be lost,
Sure some people don't like AI en masse,
But I think some of it's pretty good.
Not a huge fan or hater of Zeus myself, but I know a pretty cool song and animatic that includes him.
Thunder Bringer | EPIC: The Musical Animatic by Neal Illustrator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtKNgFftV5Y
Eventful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
Internet Bridge Troll - College Humor
I assume because breadboxes were common.
Maybe 20 questions used to be a more popular game.
According to Wikipedia
"The breadbox is commonly used to describe the size of other objects,[1] a sense that has outlasted its routine use in the kitchen. The query "Is it bigger than a breadbox?" was popularized by Steve Allen on the American game show What's My Line?, where it became a running gag after he initially asked the question in 1953. It remains a popular question in the parlor game 20 Questions.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadbox
To the person below me,
What is something you have created that you are proud of?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics_in_learning_and_memory
I'm not sure that memory equates to instincts too well.
Whether in the short or the long of it.
Short, mother does drugs while pregnant, health consequences for that baby.
Long, some humans go somewhere with little sun or much sun.
Skin changes.
In either case, I don't think we'd say we have 'our ancestors 'memories.
Though it is true that our genetics can reflect past roads and actions of our ancestors.
Memory seems more to me something one 'remembers.
Not ability, talent, susceptibility.
If something has a strong talent for being aware to threats because it's parents were in a heavy predator location.
I still would not call such 'memory.
. . .
I think the scope of memory they said in Assassins Creed was science fiction.
Not that I've read any more on the subject of epigenetics than a few webpage skims.
I'm not yet convinced either, that I'd call epigenetic memory, memory.
But if it 'were classified as memory, I don't think there's enough of it, that one could have such detailed memories of past lives.
. . . Though one could argue that in Assassins Creed most of the memory is fake, filling in the blanks by the scientists and person remembering.
. . . But even then, I don't think there'd be 'enough memory (If there 'is any memory) to be useful.
. . .
Maybe a species other than humans,
or if humans were modified could inherit clear memories.
In Warhammer, some space marines can eat people's brains to gain their memories.
. . .
But having a fear of spiders because your great grandfather lived during the poison spider swarm in ages past and was bit a lot,
Isn't the same as being able to remember your great great grandfathers various sense memories or data acquired by great grandfather.
For instance his name, without ever being told, seeing, or reading about it.
. . .
I also don't think you 'remember or have 'memory about something, from indirect nurture consequences.
Parent is abused as child.
Parent abuses you as child.
You do not have 'memories of your parent being abused as a child.
You are 'effected by your parent being abused as a child.
There exists information by your parents 'actions towards you, that they may have been abused.
Still not memory in my view.
Tiddlywinks?
One Google later, ah yes, I remember those small flat plastic disks of various colors.
Never played the game though.
I thought it might have been a joke about stepping on some sort of toy such as Legos or Jacks.
Small chance of that with Tiddlywinks I think.
I have heard some argue a theory before, that Rome was run better when it's Empower was chosen by merit, rather than blood.
I don't know how 'true that is though.
. . .
'If a well trained hereditary heir survives, I imagine it 'could work pretty well.
Not 'so well if they die though, maybe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafes
Sometimes Civil Wars have erupted by multiple heirs,
But I'm not well read on the subject.
Sounds a fair point to me, but I'm poorly read on Political History and Theory.
I'm uncertain about how few Democracies there were in history.
Problems of definitions and degrees pop their heads for me.
"In Spartan government, the political power was divided between four bodies: two Spartan kings (diarchy), gerousia (Council of Gerontes (elders), including the two kings), the ephors (representatives of the citizens who oversaw the kings), and the ecclesia (assembly of Spartans)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_democracy
If a King is elected Democratically by the people, (I'm not saying Spartan Kings were)
Whether the King can be removed or whether it is (My master, Right or wrong, sane or not)
Checks on the King's power.
It's an interesting post, though I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion.
Regardless of the conclusion though, I don't think I'd really 'want to follow someone else as King, regardless of better quality of life.
. . .
I'd imagine there are different kinds of monarchies.
. . .
I don't think America would accept Baron Trump as King, 'maybe President for a time, some years from now.
. . .
Rich people, companies, and CEOs are kind of like Kings, I suppose, but 'kind 'of is the word.
"They justified the imposition of controls on the grounds that they would thus wrest profits from wealthy private merchants that could pose a threat to the state and bring them into state coffers; particularly, modernists claimed that salt and iron industrialists were "brutal and tyrannical," who employed thousands of workers that could potentially become rebels."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourses_on_Salt_and_Iron
. . .
Black Mage: How, in the ten thousand hells of the Great Lord Chaos, did a man of your grotesque stupidity become the leader of the most powerful nation in the world?
King Steve: Well, my dad was king, so now I'm king. But now that I think about it, genetics is not a very good system of determining executive power. Even the most capable and caring and beloved leader - much less my greedy, thieving dad - can have an incompetent son so mindbogglingly stupid that he could singlehandedly flush the world's greatest nation down the sewer before the populace at large has a chance to notice - which is exactly what the Cornerian press used to say about me before I decreed that it was the civic duty of the press to never ever question my rule which I then also decreed to be absolute and perfect. So now even thinking that I'm not a perfect benevolent leader is a crime. So now I can do crazy stuff like drill for mana in Endangered Species Forest. Weeee!
Red Mage: You don't actually drill for mana.
King Steve: We do now!
https://www.nuklearpower.com/2002/06/19/episode-163-king-steve-is-stupid
Supposing that necessities were provided,
I wonder how many people would choose deportation to Antarctica, instead of some other countries.
It would be funny if all the votes of people who didn't vote, went whatever third party candidate had the most votes.
@#8
While I 'do think there 'might have been drugs, and 'maybe the intelligence/law enforcement community hasn't (yet) released whatever evidence.
I imagine we'd have more evidence if they'd not blown the ship up, but had instead boarded it and arrested the people.
"Trump claimed the boat was operated by the Tren de Aragua gang, which was listed by the U.S. as foreign terrorist organization earlier this year."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-carried-out-3rd-fatal-strike-on-alleged-drug-smuggling-boat-in-the-caribbean-trump-says
It feels a bit as though they were classified as terrorists 'just so they could be hit in such a way legally. Rather than fitting the mold of most terrorists, maybe.
. . .
What about due process?
If we have the ability to easily capture a criminal or enemy,
I might rather we did.
Rather than Bonnie and Clyde them, or Duterte Philippines War on Drugs them.
What other debate sites have you tried?
I find the idea of AI or machines using brains as neural networks, interesting.
The AI being people but lacking ability until commandeering a brain. . . .
Though I'm still not sure the AI 'would be a person, so much as the brains would be,
Just be that the 'body would be overriding the brain. As even human bodies do sometimes, the mind is a plaything of the body, as the saying goes.
Course the body is also a plaything of the mind, chicken and egg.
. . . And then there's the possible error of mind/body, why not just body?
But will people be 'convinced by AI?
Various real humans already exist on either side,
. . Also various public speakers and personalities are perhaps better debaters than most people,
So most people are already replaced, as they watch said debates with real people.
. . .
Still, , , People might end up using AI for their arguments more 'personally.
Online common conversations for example.
Theoretically I could be using one here right now (Though I'm not)
. . . Depends what one 'wants out of debate maybe.
If one wants to 'win, maybe AI is the best tool.
. . .
I sure read and watch a lot of other peoples works, rather than figuring them out myself.
So maybe for a lot of people, just reading what an AI would argue for their personal viewpoint would be enough, would feel like learning.
And to an extent one 'is learning I suppose.
. . .
I'm still more fond of thinking for myself though (Generally).
Working out my own thoughts.
. . . Hm, but there 'are a 'lot of various government run services in America I think.
Post office, Prison, Police, Road Maintenance.
So assumably the state 'can calculate prices,
Though I might worry they calculate poorly.
. . .
Private business has the problem 'of motive and profit.
Searches for the cheapest materials, and encourages people to throw away devices, upgrade, so they can sell more more more.
Not very good for environment or conservation of material.
. . . Though consumerism can be a force, I'm doubtful that it's something we should 'want. When money spent in cheap consumerism could be used to more useful ends.
Could go dual model, state and private enterprise.
State produces bare bricks bones cars.
None of that fancy electric windows or leather seats.
People can still buy more expensive wasteful cars,
But government could build more efficient and available cars.
Social pressures of people buying more efficient cars might encourage most of society to use the government cars.
USSR food shortages, might have various explanations, that would not apply to America.
https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3033&context=dlj
https://www.cato.org/commentary/barack-obamas-war-free-press
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/zuckerberg-says-the-white-house-pressured-facebook-to-censor-some-covid-19-content-during-the-pandemic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission
Course, Government Cancelling is different than Society Cancelling.
Technically bipartisan,
Recent history has leant Left though I think, in the publics mind.
The definitions and examples of such are not very clear in my mind.
'Most cultures I think, tend to be outspoken against cultures they dislike or think morally wrong.
Being against violent video games or movies, feels a bit Right,
But then, being against scantily clad women in video games like Mortal Kombat. . .
Hm, different 'reasons maybe.
Right: Showing and Leering over women is morally wrong according to traditional morals.
Left: Depicting women in such a way is degrading towards women, and is not doubt a plan of the patriarchy.
. . . It's a bit of 'established norms, vs new norms I suppose.
The Left, tear down historical statues, spit on founders of universities, write history to castigate America more, take a knee at football games.
They are cancelling out the norm culture.
Right members protesting drag show or something, would technically be cancel culture I'd 'think, but it's not such a social norm maybe.
. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture
Hm, politically incorrect speech, cancelling careers, widespread protest.
Protesting just has a 'sense of being more 'Left I suppose.
Sometimes I get a sense of people with too much time on their hands.
Don Imus, Stuart Baker, Jordan Peterson at campus's, Punch a Nazi, Gay wedding cake.
. . .
Not that some things 'shouldn't be protested.
. . .
Hm, I didn't really care about Papa Johns personal views, I buy a pizza if I like to eat it or not,
It would be a lot of work to vet 'everything I consume.
Separate the work from the artist.
Didn't really pay attention to the Harvey Weinstein situation, but from what I vaguely know, I'm glad that guy got cancelled.
. . .
Just been more activity or visible of Left and actions and news networks on the left for a while and big social changes, changes in laws and values.
While intelectually I realize fiction is fiction,
Emotionally it doesn't tend to 'hit that way for me.
One of the reasons I dislike evil fiction, I'd suppose.
. . .
The 'purpose of representation graphic, often 'is to trick the mind into acceptance of fiction as reality, illusion, sensation.
I get people who say it's just fiction, intelectually I get it,
But emotionally it bothers me sometimes.
. . .
Ought experience be experience, even if illusion?
If one cannot tell the difference, does it matter?
. . . Perhaps, perhaps trauma might be lessened if one realizes something they were experiencing, was 'not.
Horror pranks for instance, but such instances are 'short in duration of experience, and quick after revealed.
. . . Well, one can theoretically always stop reading fiction, and there is always that 'slight sense of unreality, except the point of fiction is often to captivate 'despite such.
If we had a machine that gave the illusion of the hand being burned, if pain receptors fired,
Hm, peppers perhaps,
Well, the fire is an illusion perhaps, but not the pain,
. . . Can pain be an illusion?
. . . It 'can, one can over react to pain, 'think and fear it will be more, then no pain comes,
Other times though, I don't think the pain 'is an illusion.
I sometimes dislike the idea of people creating evil fiction.
Though I 'have heard before, that the map is not the territory.
The concept in itself, being given some physical form, through paper or sound, bothers me sometimes.
. . .
. . .
Fable 1
Losing village, dad and sister 'was probably pretty sad,
But it being at the start meant limited time to build connection.
Losing the mom later, hm, maybe more of an anger moment.
I don't remember if I teared up, it was a long time ago.
. . .
Hm, I don't 'remember tearing up from any video games, but it's been a while since I've played a lot of them.
Dragon Age Origins
'Maybe? I seem to remember getting immersed in that and the characters pretty well. Possible I teared up some years ago.
Hm, I suppose there are different types of tears.
