Leaning

My views haven't changed from my comments #19 and #22 from below thread.

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/11231-ten-commandments-in-classrooms?page=1

I don't see a problem with an individual praying by themself, silent or out loud.

Since 1962, the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that school-mandated prayers in public schools are unconstitutional. United States law does permit religious education of public school students, along with voluntary prayer, during school hours under the principle of released time as "long as the teachers are not state-approved, public money is not involved, and there is no state coercion."[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer_in_the_United_States

Well, I don't worry about eating raw carrots, and I'm sure there's 'many plants one can safely eat raw.

I just know that there exist 'some where it can be inconvenient or worse.

Though I might worry about eating too 'many carrots.

Still, you've researched it more than be, and would likely live longer than myself in a crisis situation with less obvious food available.

"The potato is rarely eaten raw because raw potato starch is poorly digested by humans."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato

"Some kinds of raw beans contain a harmful, flavourless toxin: the lectin phytohaemagglutinin, which must be destroyed by cooking. Red kidney beans are particularly toxic, but other types also pose risks of food poisoning. Even small quantities (4 or 5 raw beans) may cause severe stomachache, vomiting, and diarrhea."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean

Bricks

"Why are you even pretending this is representative of the choices before you?"

I wouldn't say I'm 'pretending, it's the way I see it.

I think slowly over the last ten years or so, I've drifted Right.

It's 'possible I'm delusional, but I doubt it.

It's not as though I 'like Trump, and I must admit a worry that he'll inadvertently sabotage and make unpopular values that I like.

. . . Some people just 'really don't like the Left.

A single example is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

"The difference is that “Liberal X” is made up horseshit. There is no threat of liberals collapsing American democracy, that’s straight up right wing propaganda to an absurd degree."

I don't think either party is a significant threat to collapsing American Democracy 'immediately.

. . . I don't like liars and loopholes, but I generally think of 'most politicians that way.

'Other values and platforms matter more to me.

Ideally after a bit of time we can push back on the lying and poor cooperation between parties.

What I want to avoid, is Leftist policies being normalized to politicians or society.

"The fact that these shirts are selling at his rallies is a clear demonstration of his values. No president who cares about preserving American democracy would allow stuff like this to go on without at the very least condemning it, especially when it is a very prominent attack against the administration."

Trump is a crass businessman and opportunist.

Whether it's a physical coin being sold on TV or a Bitcoin, I've seen him peddling such.

Doesn't mean he will get or even 'try for a third term.

What I see is just the crass businessman. I don't see a 'serious Dictator attempt.

Judges

"Ok. And when Trump decides to ignore them, what happens next? You tell me."

I don't know 'exactly, I'm not finding any decent answers online.

Might lead to another 'first in American history.

https://www.lubbockonline.com/story/opinion/columns/guest/2019/03/03/its-debatable-can-president-ignore-order-from-us-supreme-court/984915007

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/what_would_happen_if_trump_ignored_a_court_order_law_profs_consider_the_iss

https://www.fjc.gov/history/administration/judicial-review-executive-orders

But I'm pretty sure Trump is 'frequently being prevented in this or that action by judges and courts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/trump-overruled

It's annoying that Trump uses the court system so much,

But generally when ruled against, he gets slowed and stopped I'd think.

Video,

Fair points, change is often minute, slow, hard to see immediate moment to moment.

'Perfect online documentation of objective information often hard to find.

But what you worry about Trump and the Right, slowly changing the country, other people worry about the Left.

I've heard some foods are easier to digest when cooked,

I wonder if that applies even in finely chopped or paste form.

Whether cooking even minced or chopped food, helps it digest easier.

I'd imagine strong higher quality life countries are more prone to war weariness.

If one isn't used to losing people, or being damaged economically.

There's also more to take away.

Ironic maybe, stronger one gets, weaker one's pain tolerance might get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvha2sVzAFE

Ukraine's New BOPP Strategy: The Big Oil Power Play

Heh, makes me think of H. P. Lovecraft.

It's certainly looks long thought out, lengthy, and containing words most people don't use too often.

Buckminster Fuller, I think I've heard of that guy before.

Ah, famous, what I remember specifically was him and domes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

brick by brick

Bricks get removed, fall off, get replaced.

We've a blueprint of America, an ideal we work towards and can always 'eventually get back towards.

An eternal star in the sky, by which to set our course. Until it blows up some day.

I'd rather have bricks removed by people whose ideals line up more with my own,

Than have bricks removed by people whose ideals are different than my own.

Though I'd rather no bricks get removed.

They’re literally selling Trump 2028 T shirts at his rallies.

Big deal, I doubt there's enough such individual to matter. Most normal people would see it as a gag.

If Trump 'did try getting elected a third time, I doubt he'd live through it.

Old age of course, and other unstated reasons.

Please read some history.

I 'have read 'some history, though it's possible I've focused more on the obvious and sudden Dictators and their moments in history.

Trump has no Night of the Long Knives. No October Revolution, no outside powers intervening 'militarily for a coup.

Though I am 'aware of gradual steps as well.

And I am aware of January 6th, though I think people blow it out of proportion.

America, generally speaking is a stable state and society, the bricks will be replaced in time.

But that doesn’t mean he has no qualities about him that equip him to carry out such a terrible feat

Of course he has qualities and people that he 'could carry out X or X feat.

But that doesn't mean he did X or will do X.

Besides X, isn't as worrisome to some people as a Liberal X.

Even 'Biden has qualities and people, and potential.

Impeached again eventually, and removed from office this time.

I don't think all Republicans like Trump, or will support him in all things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign

I vaguely recall judges and courts 'constantly opposing various actions of Trump.

Whether Supreme Court or State Judges.

Just because the President pushes for certain ends, doesn't mean states always obey.

Nor even cities or individuals to state laws.

Democrats are 'always protesting.

Often nonsensically.

When the issue 'really matters, the protest will matter and be acted on.

World of politics existed before Trump, still exists separate of him, will exist after him.

"The constitution left that power to the states"

I don't think the 'Executive 'Order is going to stick for Voter ID, but Trump urging Congress and so on to pass it, might be Constitutional.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-he-will-order-voter-id-requirement-every-vote-2025-08-31

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_black_exclusion_laws

Ever since the Civil War, states lost so much power. Some might argue the loss of an amount of state power was a good thing.

"What has protected the United States so strongly against dictatorship was not our laws, but rather our norms."

I'd agree norms are a large part of what has protected America.

I wouldn't say I'm 'excusing each encroachment after another.

I just think people opposing Trump often oppose him in the wrong way.

His entire two presidencies have felt a mishandling of the situation by Democrats, though I'm not wild with how Republicans handled it either.

I also think government is 'constantly throughout history toeing the line of what is constitutional, if not frequently overstepping it.

Degree of cynicism.

"Italy or Germany in the 1930’s"

I think Italy and Germany had monarchs in WW1.

They can hardly be compared to America after some 200 years of Democracy.

Opposition to tyrants and dictatorships is very American culture.

We're on a large landmass with just two neighbors.

Unless we get defeated in war, nuked, or have a huge demographic change I don't see any Dictator coming.

If one 'did appear, I think they'd get assassinated pretty quick.

Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles

"It’s just excuse after excuse."

I wouldn't say 'excuses, I'd say theories.

I don't know what is going on in Trumps head, or behind closed doors in small meetings.

I think people attribute only the worst of intentions to Trump,

Accuse him of being a moron, yet often assume him to have intelligent plans or understanding.

Myself I can't tell.

" I’d really love to know who you are so confident in to stop him."

Various courts, politicians, protests.

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets impeached again eventually, and removed from office this time.

"Signed an executive order telling states how to run their own elections (mandating voter ID)

These aren't "well maybe" kind of actions, these are all definitionally authoritarian, along with the other examples I provided earlier.

There is no reasonable doubt about his motivations. The pattern of behavior is clear and blatantly predictable, and there is no alternative narrative that explains them all, certainly not one at the least which the administration has provided."

Voter ID on it's face sounds a good policy to me.

Or at least 'some type of accountability, vote by mail for instance has one's registered address.

But I admit I don't know much about the voting process and accountability.

"You really seem comforted by the idea that his term will end and that will be it. Maybe that will turn out to be the case, but to think the system will hold simply because that's what we're used to is naive and wrongheaded."

. . . I suppose revolutions 'do happen in other countries,

Dictators sometimes seize power,

. . . But America seems mechanically designed 'against a single dictator taking power.

Seems socially, technology, and culturally 'motivated against such an occurrence.

I think we'll see a popular people's revolution before a dictator.

. . I think Trump is egotistical and selfish to such a degree, that Ideally it will be difficult for anyone to 'inherit his power, movement, style.

Though I 'really wish Republicans had united during his first term, against many of his actions.

. . . Even 'with his irritating erosion of good government oversight, I read history and see a 'lot of government actions I dislike.

We survived them, we'll survive Trump.

"I do share your belief that democracy will ultimately hold, but your comfort is deeply misplaced. And what's most remarkable to me is that we seem to agree that it will likely hold in spite of him, not because of him. That is remarkable, and I have no idea how you justify even having the temptation to vote for him knowing that."

It's a question of lesser evils.

There are a lot of Left ideas I dislike.

Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles

It 'could be shifting the Overton window.

But I think there are so 'many possible reasons.

Maybe it's a red herring to distract from the Epstein List.

Maybe he 'thinks this is the most effective method to clean up homelessness, crime, or illegal immigration.

I know we talk about Trumps lies and dishonesty, , But he's not necessarily divorced from a love of America or wanting to fix problems that 'he thinks exist. Whether they do or not.

Maybe he's just trying to show that he's following through on his campaign promises.

Maybe it's some budget loophole due to DC budget failure.

Though, I'm doubtful such would 'work.

In history I 'have heard of countries using soldiers for tasks other than war in peacetime.

Farming for instance.

Or construction.

Something I dislike about Trump, is my difficulty in assessing him.

Is he stupid? Intelligent? Cunning?

What does he 'want?

Does he 'have good self control?

Ability to keep secrets?

'Can he 'actually plan anything in detail and depth?

"The facts just don't support that view." Double_R

I 'do think you make a good argument on him maybe having more yes men in his second term.

But president is 'still a temporary position, cult or not, I find a third term incredibly unlikely.

He's an old man, might die or age out sooner rather than later.

I'm also poorly educated on political appointees various scopes of power and how long they remain in said positions.

I know that they 'exist, and would rather have people I approve of, but ideally most of them will wash out eventually.

. . . A previous coworker of mine voted for Trump, because they were just so angry about politics in general, and wanted the system shaken up.

People 'are getting that I suppose, As many of Trumps appointees 'are unusual, again I think of my view of him as a showman, rather than politician.

The people he connects with similarly are often of showbiz.

. . . I don't think I'd call it 'good, but it is 'different.

"He's already sent military troops into 2 US cities" Double_R

Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles?

And heck if I know 'why exactly. Lots of 'possible reasons, none really hitting my Coup Warning.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/national-guard-dc-trash-pick-up-trump-b2818830.html

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/national-guard-troops-in-washington-are-now-carrying-firearms-including-handguns-and-rifles

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/04/trumps-blue-city-law-and-order-crackdowns-are-also-about-immigration-00544545

"While they will not conduct arrests, guardsmen have the authority to temporarily detain individuals to prevent imminent harm, ensuring that custody is promptly transferred to law enforcement authorities, he said."

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/4277906/guard-assisting-law-enforcement-in-making-dc-safe/#:~:text=While%20they%20will%20not%20conduct,law%20enforcement%20authorities%2C%20he%20said.

I think it's ICE, not the National Guard arresting people?

I admit I don't care for 'how Trump is handling immigration,

But that is one of the 'frustrations of government.

For example, citizens say we think X should be illegal,

Government says, so you want the maximum penalty for X, that will actually make the problem worse?

Citizen, no.

Government, well the other option is the other party, and they don't want to outlaw X.

Citizen, Carp.

. . . But the problem of Trump, in my mind has long been his 'skirting, not breaking of the law.

Technicalities and loopholes, reasonable doubt.

Wryly's not wrong in how many people view Trump,

"He didn't say that and if he did he didn't mean it and if he did it's not illegal and if it is everyone's doing it and if they're not she did something way worse."

Even if I and many other people don't like 'how Trump is doing something, we often want 'something done.

Not nothing or the inverse.

I still don't see Trump as 'functionally an Authoritarian, he may have such desire and 'style, but he does not have the actions of such.

There is still Technicalities and loopholes, reasonable doubt, precedents of sorts.

He is likely 'still out of office when his term is up, not a dictator.

"The school thing is a BS cop out, just like the trans women in women's sports. This isn't about the children, it's about bigotry against trans people." Double_R

I think it can both be bigotry and for the kids.

. . . Bigotry seems a bit of a loaded word though.

Surely 'all people are bigoted towards 'something?

These people have an idea of what is a right way to live life, see trans as harmful, as lies and delusion.

Why should they 'not try to prevent their children from normalizing or being indoctrinated by it?

Whether it 'is bad or not is a different question,

What 'matters is that people think it is bad, (For various reasons).

Thus they support laws, culture, and 'leaders like Trump, who oppose it.

"Because you're probably listening to right wing propaganda," Double_R

Well, not that much I'd say.

But I could probably be better in what I Google, Youtube, Reddit.

. . It's more I don't pay much attention to politics and news in general. Which isn't admirable.

"Do you know what a sanctuary city is, or why they exist?" Double_R

"A sanctuary city is a municipality that limits or denies its cooperation with the national government in enforcing immigration law."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

Charitably, because people want more equal rights and humane outcomes for humans nearby, even if they're illegal.

Less charitable, (Expunged)

"Then why would you even be tempted to vote for the most divisive president we've ever seen?" Double_R

Maybe I'm a tribalistic, individualistic, generally traditional person.

I think I line up with more ideas on the Right, than the Left.

Even if I dislike a lot of 'how said ideas are carried out by the Right.

I dislike a 'lot of ideas I see on the Left.

I suppose a pocket watch could be called a gizmo,

Don't need electricity to wind a clock.

Though, might get a bit rusty, fresh or seawater.

Metallurgy also, maybe a bit difficult.

Could always create air chambers I suppose, for various tasks and preservations of materials.

"downplaying the severity of this"

Well, I must admit that Trump makes me glad for American President term limits.

"Fascism can be used to describe a government, or an ideology."

"If I had your child in the back seat of my car while I'm doing 100mph, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be comforted"

I suppose I see it more as the car going the speed limit, within sight of the cops, but driven by a person who would 'like to go 100mph.

A lot of people believe in ideals I don't like, but so long as they don't significantly 'act on those ideas, or are quickly brought back into line by society and law. I'm not worried.

I think a 'lot of people have ideals I don't like, things they 'could be, but as they can't and don't act on them, I don't worry too much.

Maybe 'most people have ideals I don't like.

I view it more as a person who would 'like to do 100mph, but but is constantly within sight of the police, so they don't.

I don't see him as an 'ideal person for American function or interaction with other countries,

But I'm not sure he's the worst.

If we could without coercion get part of Canada or Greenland to join into America, I think that would be a positive for our country.

I think Trump did alright in the Israel Iran situation.

. . .

I still don't like him, divisive to America, trying to blackmail people such as Ukraine president. I'm doubtful about the wisdom of the tariffs.

But even that can be seen in another light, as just politics,

I've a pessimistic view of politics and politicians.

Though I 'do want better than Trump.

But I don't think he's going 100mph.

He'd 'like to, but a 'lot of people would like to.

I think he's within the speed limit.

"the spread of his propaganda."

An issue though is there is 'some truth to the propaganda, not the way 'he says there is, he exaggerates and lies obviously.

And I'm not saying the Left is to blame.

But undocumented immigrants 'are a problem,

Gay and trans 'are reaching out to schools and younger generations, I don't mean grooming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hour

I suppose one could argue avoiding drag queens is like avoiding people of other races,

But the fact of influence remains.

I don't hear about Conservative cities being used as sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants.

Some places such as San Francisco 'do look run down.

. . .

Of course I 'do think it's horrible the 'amount of distortion Trump uses,

Illegal Immigrants are mostly just 'people, same with Democrats and Drag Queens (Probably)

. . . But even without the lies and distortions, I don't think the Right 'likes illegal immigration, trans or democrats spreading their culture, or values in schools.

The 'apparent amount of support for trans surgery on kids,

'Probably only support for situations that need it.

But that's not the way they come off.

The Left and their minority history and representation above merit.

Unfortunately of course, I see even myself regurgitating propaganda without stating sources, people, statistics,

But I don't entirely blame Trump,

I've always had a problem with exact facts and statistics,

. . . But politicians have always had a problem with what they 'say and what they 'do.

Public statements and laws passed, there's so much one has to keep track of.

Loud small opinions.

"online forums in the late 2000's"

If the entire population was on social media in the 2000s, I think there'd be the same amount of stupidity maybe.

Maybe only a certain portion and type of people were on the internet back then.

Maybe the internet hadn't configured quite yet for the 'visibility of crazy people.

. . .

Divisive politics 'isn't something I want, even if I don't really like a number of other peoples values and policies. And I doubt the wisdom of people of different ideologies mixing so much.

I 'do think people should worry about an inch and a mile, worry about sliding slopes.

Certainly he isn't my ideal of presidential behavior,

Though I sometimes wonder what other presidents in history have publicly said and announced,

I've not read enough to know.

Might be even in written recorded documents, that there's more embarrassing moments that we might expect.

I also suspect the internet and social media age might be partially to blame.

. . I'm also not well read on politics in general, I'm unsure about other politicians, whether local America or other parts of the world.

Maybe they're also more impolite that we'd realize.

. . . But I also don't think Trump is a 'norm for politicians anywhere. I don't consider him a politician or even a businessman, so much as a showman. Though he 'is of course a politician and a businessman.

I 'think I've said in the past I think he 'would be a facist if he could get away with it, but I don't think he can, so in a sense that matters to me, he's not.

Though I still think he shares many similarities with facists. Cults of personality, Grandiosity, Lies, Showmanship.

Like Putin or the Kims, displays of supposed prowess or macho.

. . . Well, even Democracies might like a bit of fanfare I suppose, grand displays and ceremony.

Heh, lot of Americans thought Adams a bit pompous though, his ideas for presidential titles.

I 'do think POTUS is an important job, and what one says in that position has effects.

Trumps style isn't one I care for, nor the lightness he treats his statements to the public from his position.

. . Though one could argue it has a degree of effectiveness in stirring popular support. . It's too selfish a support for my liking. Harmful to the whole.

. . . . . . But I can see where some Trump supporters are coming from.

Even if Trump is an idiot, even if he is harmful to the whole, he's less damage, than a candidate from the opposing party. (Ideally)

Maybe he even ends up taking actions that benefit their values. Judge appointments for instance.

People on the Right, maybe don't like Clinton taking away guns, don't like Wokeness, and much more, that often 'seems to take place when the opposing party get's into power.

Seems like it 'could take place, would take place, might take place.

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

One 'prevents 'evil from overtaking one's society, by not 'allowing it at all.

Why should one 'cooperate with evil that surely wants more than one small concession, what 'they want is to entirely change society to their way. Destroy our Culture, Traditions, and HIstory.

They only 'compromise, because they can't 'force their way, 'yet.

Compromising only gives them more power to force their evil upon us!

I'm not saying X is evil, or that I think the above quite.

But I reckon it's how many people view it.

. . .

The problem of course is selfishness again, short term gain, but can be long term loss.

I've heard some people complain about Newt Gingrich damaging cooperation between the parties.

. . . Maybe a lot of it is social media again, not that the past 'lacked social media.

Always been culture wars.

I've never voted for him, though I've been tempted to.

. . .

1st, I suppose I wouldn't take him seriously, just assume he's joking.

2nd, I don't think he'd be able to manage it even if he 'was serious.

Can't say I 'know much about Citizenship in America, history or legal.

But no 'obvious answers come to me of natural born citizens who were exiled or forcibly stripped of citizenship.

Jefferson Davis?

Slaves?

Native Americans?

Japanese Americans?

All a bunch of question marks for me, because I don't know much. But still, I doubt Rosie is going to have her citizenship taken away.

@ebuc #31

It's an oddity, I think people could be 'far more dangerous without guns than with guns,

But crazy people are generally too mad to plan murder rationally. . . Well, 'most of the time sane people 'aren't murdering others. In 'current America.

The oddity is that crazy people are more dangerous with guns, even though I think other means are more dangerous. The insane are less able to utilize said other means.

'Might have been less that 14 with a sword, unsure if the same person though.

Peterborough ditch murders - Wikipedia

. . .

@fauxlaw #17

"The Reagan admin shutdown all fed-controlled mental institutions"

I've heard of that before.

Personally it's another aspect that does not so convince me of the strongest sorts of gun control.

Treatment of the symptom, but not the disease, Strong Gun control.

A covering up of the real problem, and worse, by removing something I think makes America stronger.

People's concern should be making society 'worthy of power,

Not taking away all of societies power, and leaving them wretched.

@Debby

AquaSonic, I hear they might be releasing a CD this year.

"Scheduled release of album is in 2025. The album will be released both on digital streaming platforms and physically as an LP.

We would like to focus on sustainability and the relationship to water. Therefore, we are investigating alternative materials for vinyl, as well the possibilities of 3D printing a cover in bioplastic of e.g. shrimp shells or fish waste."

AQUASONIC ALBUM | betweenmusic

Aquatic animal musical bands,

Might be 'some good whale songs out there.

@Intel_06

"People have reported their singing voices are better in the shower."

But where are the shower albums and songs on the charts?

@Wryly

Fiction with underwater cultures,

I imagine a lot of gadgets and gizmos aplenty. Whosits and whatsits galore, perhaps even some thingamabobs.

Interesting how much science looked to go into Aquasonic.

Kind of feels like both to me, I'm 'part of everything.

. . . Predictive models can get pretty good at predicting responses I'd imagine.

Even regular people, can have decent predictive models of other people.

. . . With tech, maybe even better, EEG monitor on a person's head since birth.

. . .

“Zeno, they say, was whipping a slave for stealing. When the latter said, ‘It was decreed by fate for me to steal’, Zeno replied, “And to be beaten’.”

https://www.eoht.info/page/Slave%20stealing%20parable

Mencius said, "The woods on Ox Mountain were once beautiful! On account of its being on the edge of a large country, it had been attacked with axes and hatchets, and then how could it remain beautiful? The refreshing breezes of day and night, and the moisture provided by rain and fog, did not fail to give rise to sprouts of vegetation. But cows and sheep have been repeatedly pastured there, and for that reason it has remained desolate. People observe its denuded state and assume that it never had any good resources. But how could this state be the true nature of this mountain?" — Mencius, 6A:8

Mencius argued that "bad" human natures were produced just as the bad condition of Ox Mountain had been produced, so the answer to "bad" humans was to protect and nurture them from birth. He also thought that punishment does not do much good. It does not cure the root of the problem.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ox_Mountain

Marcus Aurelius said

"For at what do you fret? At the wickedness of mankind. Recollect the maxim that all reasoning beings are created for one another, that to bear with them is a part of justice, and that they cannot help their sin."

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/55317/55317-h/55317-h.htm

Yet, we often have the power 'to change, if we will but think of possibility and 'effort upon such.

I lean towards the world and ourselves 'both being driving forces.

I think it'd be kind of cool if a game company kept working on a 'single sandbox game, but kept adding complexity, options, and choice.

If Skyrim was pen and paper RPG like Dungeons and Dragons, game might play out a lot different as a High Elf, maybe could join the Thalmor.

Or quit the Thalmor, and have to deal with the consequences,

Well, consequences would be much the same as when other people dislike you I suppose, assassins sent after you.

Certainly enough 'mods for some games that they 'could.

Joining the wolf Queen as an undead for instance and killing all of Skyrim.

. . . I don't really like the 'save function in a lot of games though, feels cheap.

Though clunky computer design, both in glitches and plot, make it feel a necessity in some games.

Something I like about Kenshi, is it has a mix of danger, but is not gamestopping.

Even if X many squadmates die, squad and game can live on.

. . . Still I'd reload if I thought deaths unfair from glitches, or I wasn't paying attention and didn't 'notice some guy being attacked.

Death risk should be chosen, such as choosing a dangerous ruin, those deaths are fair.

But X enemy stumbling upon a miner I'm not paying attention to, feels unfair.

Even if you'd written the Old Man and the Sea,

People might have criticized bits.

Water, swimming, ocean,

Are all cool mediums, useful, relatable.

One 'does often drift in the sea,

Sea is often murky deep and vast.

Maybe it 'is some deep part of the ocean,

Maybe the Earth has flooded like Waterworld, or it's some 'other planet.

I do like the story, though I don't 'know the meaning.

I've often had a desire of some sort of unknown end/goal/knowledge that I feel I'm gaining towards, some moments in life.

People do X for various reasons, some people want to find the bottom of the ocean, some want pearls to sell, some love swimming and fish.

Some run for the finish line, some run for the high, some for the exercise.

. . . The ocean 'does have a bottom, though I'm not so sure about some other physicality in existence, or concepts and goals.

"the diver himself was the foundation"

Is interesting, reminds me of something Zed said, I think.

About all our impressions and sensing of the world, occurring in ourselves.

Though the world may be, we've all our own impressions.

Same thinking as the blind men and the elephant I suppose.

. . .

But the world existed before us, possibly.

Forms us, laws of existence us.

I would still want to dive, and find the bottom of the sea.

. . .

I'm not really s- I've never been satisfied with Existentialism, Practical Realism.

I find I 'conform to it, but I don't like it.

I feel as though it is a lie, and worse for my 'knowing it a lie.

Yet I 'must follow it, but I don't like it, I dislike praising it.

I dislike Absurdity as well, it feels a surrender to a madness.

. . . Course Metaphorically, maybe there isn't a sea bottom. . . But I'm not satisfied with the sights on the way down, there is 'more, I can't help but feel.

I can't help but be 'sure, seagulls, fish, darkness, but there is more, in the darkness there are lights, angler fish, giant squids, goblin sharks,

I'm sure the bottom is down there as well.

"real separate from any God or simulation, meaning or purpose"

Is that 'human?

I'm doubtful, I think it's all that which 'made us human, all that we can not do without and 'remain.

"To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape."

-Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

I wonder what musical instruments would sound good underwater.

I'd figure most people would end up choosing Imperials,

Not as though other races have much reason to 'like the Stormcloak faction.

. . . Though trailers and starting race on the character select 'is a Nord.

Still, not as though all Nords support the Stormcloaks.

I don't think all mental illness is the same,

Nor do I think all people agree what is mental illness.

Also, I believe in slippery slopes.

"We can say 60% of people who drink and drive don't kill anyone. That doesn't mean they get to drive, or own a gun after killing others."

-Shoresy

"after killing others."

-Shoresy

Who has the dysphoria individual killed? additionally suicide is not homicide.

"More than 40% of transgender adults in the US have attempted suicide"

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/transpop-suicide-press-release

"We all know suicidal people sometimes take others with them, which is why you shouldn't give people with conditions like dysphoria access to guns, among other things to facilitate death."

-Shoresy

I do not know that suicidal people are more likely to be homicidal.

Nor do I know 'why individuals with dysphoria 'currently have a higher suicide rate.

"You always should work to make things better, no matter what. If you don't care that they are killing themselves, at least care for that one time a school gets shot up."

- Shoresy

I don't think the number of school shootings is significant to the point that it requires the abolishment of The Second Amendment.

I think there are methods other than guns that can kill people with equal or worse results.

I like guns.

. . . I 'am for communities, cities, and states removing their Guns Rights if they so wish, but I do not want to live in such a community myself.

Better. . . Everyone could wear helmets, knee and elbow pads all the time, maybe less death and injury from falling.

Doesn't mean I'd find the state of affairs better.

People could be 'forced not to eat sugar or greasy food, doesn't mean I think government 'ought have such power,

Nor do I want to live in such a society.

Note to self, 400 degrees, 35 minutes, is too much for sliced mushroom in the oven.

Chicken pot pie turned out well though.

From your source I see that roughly 60% of people with dysphoria 'don't try to kill themselves.

Thus I can see that 'just having dysphoria, does not mean someone will try to kill themself.

"More than 40% of transgender adults in the US have attempted suicide"

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/transpop-suicide-press-release

What is the 'correct percent at which to remove people's rights, property, and choice?

Among alcoholics, the lifetime risk of suicide is about 10–15%

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2872355

Why ought they be treated as a class of people, and not treated for their individual merits?

. . .

I 'could be faster to look up sources that disagree with me,

But I would not enjoy that as much in this conversation.

I might in my spare time look up sources that disagree with me, but currently I'm enjoying this side of the conversation.

"It's dysphoria. People with dysphoria kill themselves." - Shoresy

You gave no evidence for this claim.

I don't want to 'give suicidal people guns.

I am disinclined to forcibly remove from people their free will, property, and rights.

Not all Americans hold my views on guns.

You mean homosexuality is not in the 'current DSM

Doesn't mean every person or country agrees on what mental illness is.

"In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed the diagnosis of “homosexuality” from the second edition of its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM)."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4695779

How do you mean?

Because of their Dysphoria, or because of society reactions?

I've not heard any 'evidence.

If we're just talking theoreticals,

I can theorize that homosexuals have/had a higher rate of suicide, especially in earlier years when laws, family, jobs, culture were more unfriendly to them.

Doesn't mean I'd take away their right to guns.

While I might be willing to contact the police if an 'individual seemed homicidal, psychotic, or have plans of murder.

Or I might ask a friend or family member if I can take their guns from them when they seem suicidal.

I am not interested in taking away the rights of individuals for a bit of gender confusion or sadness.

I view people as having a choice with what they do with their own life.

Various X people of X belief/identity/lifestyle are at a higher rate of homicide, doesn't mean that group ought have their rights stripped.

Additionally, I'm not sure X people 'are at a higher chance of homicide.

https://csgjusticecenter.org/publications/addressing-misconceptions-about-mental-health-and-violence

I don't view school shootings as a crisis.

Are people upset by how 'many people die, Or are they upset by the 'concept of 'scary homicide using guns?

'Many 'more people die unrelated to mass shootings, Die of homicide, Suicide, Accident, Die from self indulgent pleasure such as alcohol and cigarettes. Than 'of mass shootings.

'Why remove 'Rights of Americans, That are 'instrumental to our Liberty and Safety?

"An estimated 40,990 lives were lost in traffic crashes in the U.S. in 2023" on U. S. Roadways.

Road Safety Facts | Association for Safe International Road Travel

"Each year over 3 million new chainsaws are sold in the United States. The operation of these newer saws combined with the millions of older chainsaws in circulation results in over 28, 000 chainsaw-related injures annually. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15027558

"An estimated 95,000 people (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually,15 making alcohol the third-leading preventable cause of death in the United States."

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/sites/default/files/publications/NIAAA_Alcohol_Facts_and_Stats_0.pdf