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Debby wrote:

The Old Testament does not portray the coming Christ as a God, but a Messiah a human anointed leader from the line of King David and not as God incarnate.

it is only in the New Testament is Jesus exalted to God.

That is incorrect, Debby. There are no scriptures in any part of the Judeo-Christian Bible where Jesus is "exalted to God." But if you insist, suppose you provide us with your first three set of "trinity" scriptures. Do that, and I will show you how the context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters) does not agree with your interpretation.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

linate wrote:

Elders and Presbyters: The Greek word presbuteros (often translated as "elder" or "presbyter") appears frequently in Acts and the Epistles. Christian denominations hold different views on these offices:

At the time of Jesus' instructions to his apostles at John 20:22-23, the title "Elder" existed but not the title "priest."

The Catholic Church came up with the title "priest" at the end of the 2nd century or almost 200 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene and returned to heavenly life.

"A priesthood developed gradually in the early Christian church as first bishops and then elders, or “presbyters,” began to exercise certain priestly functions, mainly in connection with celebration of the Eucharist. By the end of the 2nd century, the church’s bishops were called priests (Latin: sacerdos). "

https://www.britannica.com/topic/priest-Christianity

We can't come up with religious titles and apply scripture written hundreds of years prior and then turn around and claim that long-existing scriptures apply to religious titles that we invented later on. It doesn't work that way, linate.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

linate wrote:

So you just ignore the early church on confession and trinity?

The bible says jesus and the father are god... do u take reservation on the spirt being god?

The Bible--when context is paid attention to--doesn't say that at all, linate. Context refers to surrounding words, verses, and chapters.

Please provide your first three supposed Trinity verses, and I will show you what I mean about the context.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Debby wrote:

1 John 5:7 and the three are one.

1 John 5:7 is a fabrication, Debby. The King James Version is the only Bible that refuses to remove it. Even the other Bible versions that were translated by Trinitarians no longer include the ending that says "and the three are one." Below is a source confirming it.

"1 John 5:7—"RSV scholars say that this verse is an interpolation, a concoction, a fabrication.

Among the thousands of careful English translations available, the King James translation is the only one which includes this ending to 1 John 5:7—"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one."

It is abundantly clear that the King James translation made a serious mistake here, for this passage is found in no original Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century. Its inclusion probably resulted from a scribe inadvertently incorporating a marginal comment (gloss) into the text as he copied the manuscript we find a similar incorporation in the ancient Samarkand Qur'ān :"

https://unchangingword.com/en/references/interpolation

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

linate wrote:

The apostles in the bible appointed men to replace and follow after them. They also set up priests and elders in the bible. Notice jesus breathed the holy spirit on the apostles not everyone

There is no mention of priests in the entire Judeo-Christian Bible, linate.

Jesus was speaking directly to his apostles (shortly after his resurrection) when he gave the instruction found at John 20:22-23. At that point in time, the apostles received the Heavenly Father's holy spirit. The holy spirit of the Abrahamic God (Jehovah) enabled the apostles to resurrect dead people, to instantly heal people that were sick, and to forgive sins, as stated below.

"After saying this he [Jesus] blew on them [his apostles] and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.

If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.”

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

linate wrote:

The phrase "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" comes from Matthew 28:19 in the New Testament of the Bible. [1, 2]

So you're telling me that the mere mentioning of three entities within the same sentence equates to "they are they same god"? So, let me ask you this: Does the mentioning of you (linate), your biological father, and something owned by your biological father--within the same sentence--means you are all three the same human being?

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Debby wrote:

Gradual burning in hell appears less painful.

Scripture, please.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Debby wrote:

The Holy Spirit only came after Jesus was resurrected and taken to heaven. The Holy Spirit was Jesus’s replacement as part of the trinity.

Where does scripture say that God's holy spirit is part of a trinity, Debby? Please provide no more than three verses of scripture from the Judeo-Christian Bible where it indicates the Abrahamic God is a trinity.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

linate wrote:

This verse is found in John 20:22–23 of the New Testament (Christian Bible).

The Passage (NIV)

“And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.’” — John 20:22-23

I don't see any mention of a priest at John 20:20-23, linate.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

linate wrote:

# Confession, priestly absolution, the apostolic and institutional Churches, and the Freedom of God’s Mercy

Confession to a priest is one of the great spiritual gifts of Christianity. It provides accountability, humility, spiritual guidance, and the healing that comes from bringing hidden sins into the light. The Church has long understood the priest as a spiritual physician who helps restore the soul, not merely as a judge declaring guilt or innocence.

Please quote scripture that supports your belief that confession to a priest has any value whatsoever in the eyes of the Abrahamic God. Also linate, be sure and provide Bible book, chapter, and verse.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

MartinLuther wrote:

The Trinity

This trips many people up because it genuinely doesn't make sense, but ask yourself on an axiomatic level if something can be true without being comprehensible to the human mind. If something can't be true if it doesn't make sense to you, that means you think you are intelligent enough that your intellect can exhaust all of reality, but the human mind is limited and fallible. So there is a difference between asking "does scripture teach this" and "is this the way of interpreting scripture that makes sense". Sometimes the way that makes sense is a way that distorts the higher divine truth being revealed in scripture, which gives us a limited glimpse into something beyond human understanding. To deny the Trinity because some heresy is easier to understand is to forget how far above human comprehension God really is.

There are no scriptures in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, in support of Christendom's Trinity. The portions from paragraph of your OP that I bolded, above, are contradictory. You stated at line one that the Trinity doctrine "genuinely doesn't make sense." But then you turned around at the end of that same paragraph and apparently others to accept a doctrine that "genuinely doesn't make sense" because God is "far above human comprehension."

Tell us, MartinLuther, what has the Abrahamic God to do with a doctrine that is not supported by his inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible?

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

RemyBrown wrote:

I was an atheist for a long time because I didn't want to worship a god that burned people in hell forever for temporary stuff. He defined hell as departure from god.

Then I realized how many liberals who thought that would want to burn others in hell forever for things like misgendering, any comment they deem as misogynistic, etc (and they still want worship). You see how many trans people and women want men to worship them (trans men want normal men to admire them (aka worship))?

That realization made me realize that is god all loving? No; but he's more loving than the left.

God bless America and God Bless the First Amendment.

There are no scriptures in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, that speaks of literal hellfire torment. Literal hellfire torment is a false doctrine that has been used by religious "leaders" for centuries in order to control the masses.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

GajarMooli wrote:

I have been debating theists from multiple religions, mainly Christians from America and Canada, Muslims from Pakistan, India many from Europe too. And Hindus from India.

. . . .

All is good and well till this point, until you challenge the layman theist about thier religion, because you will be getting arguments from them which you have never heard of, which you can't answer, as an atheist. Someone said to me, why is the universe so perfect ? I said, no it is not perfect, it's just random stuff, which lead to evolution, which makes you think that it's perfect from a human perspective, but outside human interests the world in itself seems ro have no meaning. Out of all the things I said, he picked 'randomness' and asked me to exaplain what I meant by that, I have read "the God delusion" I just copy pasted the lines from my memory to speech, and the next thing they ask me is, to take a box of mechanical parts and shake it to a point till a watch forms 😂

I find it interesting, GajarMooli, that you consider some theists to be mentally ill because of their beliefs, while you have no problem stating your own religious belief that our fine-tuned universe is "not perfect" but is the result of "random stuff, which lead to evolution...."

Not only is it impossible for "random stuff" to result in fine-tuning such as is seen in our universe, but evolution is nothing more than a theory that Charles Darwin borrowed from the pagan Greeks.

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)