Wryly

whiteflame wrote:

Fair take. I balance them a little differently because Meow is so new to the site and it's harder to read him behaviorally, since he seems willing to just go off and do his own thing on a whim. Ultra's absence is more clearly behaviorally damning since his absence is a large part of why attention has consistently been drawn elsewhere. Don't tend to scumread lack of interaction, but this is excessive.

I initially townread his whimsy, and the fact that he told me to vote Mikal DP2. But after he told me everything he does is deliberate, I reconsidered. His votes were only ever on Kohai, me, Rex, and wylted. Three people I know are town and one I strongly believe is.

I remain confused as to which mechanic is the lie, since the flips so far seem to indicate 2 is the lie and the presence of fake claims indicates 3 is the lie.

MeowMix wrote:

If we suspect both of these people, we should target active scum over inactive scum. Doing otherwise doesn't make sense to me.

First target. Why do you keep saying second target.

Because it was the second one you revealed, I suppose.

ILikePie5 wrote:

The idea is that solving Ultra solves the 50/50 between REF and Meow. Both believe that Ultra is scum, so logically both would be bussing their partner. We know based on wagonomics that if Ultra was town, the lynch should’ve gone through especially with WF (who is at worse a TP) and Wylted on the wagon. I know I’m town, so that’s 3. 4th is REF, who you believe is town. Scum had the opportunity to use their leverage and hammer there, which no one would’ve faulted, but they didn’t, unless Ultra is scum.

If Ultra flips scum, REF is basically confirmed town and we lynch Meow, no questions asked

All right, this makes sense to me. I really loathe passing over the scummate who will be around to use his power tonight for the scummate who almost certainly wouldn't be around to use his, but I can't fault this logic.

whiteflame wrote:

I’m fine with letting this discussion play out so I won’t post a vote just yet. That being said, both Ultra and Meow are scum from where I’m sitting by a combination of POE and a lot of problems with both their claims. I get Wryly’s point about Meow in particular, but as I called out as the reason I was VTLing Ultra in DP2, it’s not just an issue of a bland claim and lack of presence in this and the previous DP. Ultra’s Vanilla claim isn’t the problem, it’s the specifics beyond that. No one else has claimed a generation subset as their character, posting an AI-generated version that conspicuously lacked text present in everyone else’s Vanilla justification, and then justifying it by saying that he fed it random pieces of his PM that conveniently excluded it. Dude doesn’t have a lot of posts to read, but a lot of them stand out, as does his almost complete lack of reads in the two DPs he showed up for.

I had forgotten that and I take your point. I don't think the generation outlier is conclusive, but the lack of Lunatician vanilla wording was conspicuous. Still not as much as we have on MeowMix imo.

What exactly is the holdup on MeowMix? In what way does Ultra seem a higher priority lynch here? If he's scum, he's not even active. But we all agree MeowMix's claim smells bad. We all seem to find it suspicious that his second target was whiteflame, a point he has only weakly engaged and for the most part avoided. He even stalled when pressed on which claim of whiteflame's he had chosen. My character cop shows Rex is Canadians. No one has made an effective case for how my cop was interfered with or why I am scum.

What do we have on Ultra? He's been inactive, his claim is bland, his posts have been lackluster. The strongest indicator to me is that the people in my POE have avoided targeting him even though he's easy meat, but the rest of you don't even share that POE. I don't think these evidence piles are equal. I think MeowMix's is bigger.

If we suspect both of these people, we should target active scum over inactive scum. Doing otherwise doesn't make sense to me.

You've pulled that before i'm afraid.

Let me get done and at my computer.

ILikePie5 wrote:

Wryly wrote:

"I can prove myself tomorrow" is a refrain that has no credit with you. I want your claim now. We all claimed except you. Meet me in the middle here man. That you're not even gonna tell Helz until night phase is troubling in itself. Does this mean you haven't claimed to Mikal or whiteflame?

Not tomorrow, tonight in my Mason chat with Helz. Yes I haven’t claimed yet per Helz’s wishes. I offered to claim whenever he wanted me to

Tonight as in after the day phase is over?

As for Ultra, it's conspicuous to me that neither MeowMix or Mikal ever went for him even though he's LHF. I mean wylted was a target that would at least fight back. So I think he's scum. That doesn't mean I'm positive, and my point that I want his dead weight on the scum team stands.

"I can prove myself tomorrow" is a refrain that has no credit with you. I want your claim now. We all claimed except you. Meet me in the middle here man. That you're not even gonna tell Helz until night phase is troubling in itself. Does this mean you haven't claimed to Mikal or whiteflame?

I suspect Ultra, but I would rather vote MeowMix or Mikal. I feel like Mikal and MeowMix may be trying to shift the vote to the scummate who is just dead weight, and I would rather they have that dead weight on them at MYLO and lose a functional scummate instead. Also I still don't have Pie's claim and just in case there's a world where I'm dead wrong about Ultra, I would rather put my vote on the one I'm most sure of, and that's MeowMix.

I'll still vote Ultra if there's no chance of a MeowMix lynch going through, but it's bad strategy imo.

Lunatic wrote:

MeowMix wrote:

p.s. fuck whoever is lurking and pressing the vote counter. you can literally scroll up and read the votes that you probably requested earlier. you don't need to autistically hit the button every single time someone votes or changes their mind.

add a name to who requests it so I know who to policy lynch on this website.

Honestly wish this had a 30 minute cooldown or something to it

Would be a hindrance during CFD's

ILikePie5 wrote:

There is nothing being “decided” in the Mason PM. Helz hasn’t said anything in more than 12 hours. I need time to reread all the threads. Would like ur full claim for sure. I’ve said a couple times in Mason PM that WF could be a variant of this role:

That's not the impression I've been getting from Mikal ig.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Monk

Regardless, I don’t believe WF is Mafia. At worst he’s TP.

Oh this is neat. Sounds like a more light-side spin on a 3P. If this is true then my arguments may face the added resistance of telling him he isn't halfway to meeting his quota as he might have thought when he read the OP today. :(

1) whiteflame doctored Mikal; I activated a Commuter. Which player did scum really target?

Mikal had been trying to get Kohai lynched even before that disastrous slip, and he was on wylted's wagon for two day phases in a row. He was instrumental in wylted's mislynch for complaining so loudly that we hadn't lynched wylted yet that wylted killed himself and I straight up threw in the towel. If Mikal is town he's been an effective unwitting tool for scum so far. So why get rid of him now? Were they afraid of who he might scumhunt next? Who was he likely to go for today? Rex? Rex challenged wylted's lynch and spoke up vociferously against a mass claim. He's been swimming against the tide all game. I don't see why scum does this. Me? I also held up wylted's lynch when wylted literally served himself up to scum on a silver platter. And who would my scum partners be? MeowMix? Why would I undermine his attempt to get Rex lynched, then?

2) MeowMix says he got a red check on Rex's wincon; I got a green check on Rex's character.

Putting aside the weak reasoning between Universal Backup and reparations, I don't buy that he wasted a Lie Detecter shot on whiteflame, and he stalled for ages before he finally answered the question of which statement of whiteflame's he selected. Looking back, I think he's only voted for Rex, me, Pie, and wylted, something I should've checked long before now. I'm most confident that he is scum, but that leaves the question open of who his partners are. It can't be Rex. whiteflame is role confirmed by both Pie and Mikal. Helz is townlocked. I presented counter-evidence to his red check on Rex. That leaves Ultra, Pie, and Mikal. I can easily buy Ultra, so from there I'm looking at who of the remaining two was most willing to vote Ultra until now. The answer has been decidedly Pie.

I didn't sleep last night and I'm really tired. I'm gonna claim and you can do whatever.

Each night, I pick a letter and receive the associated ability, but I don't know the ability until I pick the letter, and it must be used that night.

NP1, I picked the "I" at random.

Here's a paraphrase:

The I represents intersex. You're an anomaly of anatomy who doesn't identify with either gender and can't have conventional intercourse. Tonight you are the virgin, and if you're killed all lethal roles will be roleblocked the next day. You can be roleblocked.

There is one letter left. I won't know what it does until tonight and I likely won't live to tell you.

It has just occurred to me I may have been infected with the "no u claim" virus. Am I doing the same claim standoffs I have criticized in the past? Is this how it starts? Will I soon devolve into a mafia Gollum stroking my claims and whispering "precious"?

I think we're in a position where more is being decided in mason chat than in the thread, which was inevitable. Not much I can do about that except hope townies in the chat are smart, and that they'll give me the opportunity to weigh in on important points eventually. I'm leaving it here for today.

In all due time I will. Just have a little faith. Right now we’re on the same side, but I need to know the whole picture to solve.

You're not the detective, you're a potential suspect, and I find myself unmotivated to clarify the last of my role when you have yet to clarify the beginning of yours. It *is* your turn, you know.

But like I said, I'll spill if it becomes a sticking point to enough people. @whiteflame @Helz @Rex, lmk if it has. I'd like to starve scum of information, but not at the expense of town trust.

ILikePie5 wrote:

Thanks. I would like to know your other 2 abilities and why you chose not to do anything NP1. We have to resolved the 50/50 between REF and Meow

I would like to know your role.

MeowMix wrote:

That implies it is voluntary.

It's been voluntary every time I've been neighborized. 🤷‍♀️

ILikePie5 wrote:

Good lord of course yall flood the DP when im out.

I need concise information from Wryly and MeowMix in one post:

1) State your Character

2) State your role(s)

3) State your justification

4) State WHEN night actions were used and WHO they were used on

#145

MeowMix wrote:

It's not, but whatever you like I suppose.

Hmmmm this post was debunked by the zestiest nigga in the thread.

There needs to be a captor/captive relationship for Stockholm's. There's no such relationship in mason chats, it just cultivates in-group loyalty.

If it was MeowMix and Mikal, and the third were Pie, it wouldn't make sense for Mikal to recruit a scummate first. If the third were whiteflame, Pie wouldn't be able to verify whiteflame's power. Could it be Ultra, Mikal, MeowMix? With whiteflame being town and Pie being 3P?

I really don't want MeowMix to be scum, he is the only fun thing about this game rn.

I'll have to think more on this tomorrow. For now, videogames beckon.

Is there literally anything I can do to hear no more about what is going on in mason chat

MeowMix wrote:

Wryly wrote:

The problem with mason chats is they by nature create an in-group intimacy, an us vs them dynamic, that almost feels wrong to violate. You strategize, you joke; it's a dopamine and oxytocin boost; and then to think critically you're fighting that dopamine for control over your mind. I remember how reluctant I was to suspect anyone in my guild in Solo Leveling mafia.

It's called stockholm syndrome you dummy.

It's not, but whatever you like I suppose.

The problem with mason chats is they by nature create an in-group intimacy, an us vs them dynamic, that almost feels wrong to violate. You strategize, you joke; it's a dopamine and oxytocin boost; and then to think critically you're fighting that dopamine for control over your mind. I remember how reluctant I was to suspect anyone in my guild in Solo Leveling mafia.

I'm divided on whether my Character Cop indicates that the lie was "There is no theme split" or not. Would Lunatic really give me that just so I could have one shot at catching the German?

It really doesn't look like there has been any tailoring so far though, and would they really wait this long to use it if they had it?

I'm dying 😂

MeowMix wrote:

We use the big bags to freeze meat normally and we ran out. Please understand.

Of course. Meat comes first.

So hopefully that clears up things.

Not at all, but worth it.

This humble listener remarks that the roach clearly got what was coming to it, that freezing it in ziploc baggies was clearly the only way to prevent disaster, and laments only that you did not have a gallon ziploc baggie to make its frozen entombment more expeditious.

Mikal wrote:

https://letters.hookedonphonics.com/us/read-guaranteed-G27-2396-v11.html?vc=HPG1&pc=SHPGBR&tracking_id=1021f42a020030bdee2c9a2bb988b7&url_id=5874&oid=710&vid=1855&cid=4194&hid=14509&utm_source=google&aff_id2=%7Baff_id2%7D&utm_campaign=%7Butm_campaign%7D&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=BrandDollarPacks&gc_id=184380999&h_ad_id=788588042088&src=G&qid=3&msvid=v2&utm_term=%7Bkeyword%7D&tracking=%7Bkeyword%7D&ap=true&gclid=Cj0KCQjwornRBhCrARIsAON5exHey1yGcGhEjdPVDa9vhDuxdzK4lo4zx570yb4J4QZIMrSGuKXqnCQaAhcAEALw_wcB&persona=Default+close

Even your links come with unnecessary diarrhea

I'll assume it was just a hooked on phonics page. The irony of this is perhaps so extreme as to be inexpressible. Imagine if I handed you a 5 gallon bucket of my own shit with a post-it note buried inside, and then said "why haven't you read my note, learn how to read."