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whiteflame

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whiteflame

Finally have some downtime (yes, I'm finally home) so I'm catching up.


Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/10/2026 at 3:38 AM (post #4)

I know that I cannot expect all of you to read everything in the OP no matter how much I implore you to, but


FOR FUCK'S SAKE


PLEASE


Read the Group Chats section extremely carefully, and then read it again


Going to just quote this for everyone's sake. The chat mechanic is going to make or break this game, probably the single biggest difference in terms of game mechanics from Mafia generally. If you're going to read any portion of this OP closely, read this.

whiteflame

I promise I will be on for this game when I’m not in the middle of an early travel day, finally getting home today. That won’t be for another few hours at least, so this is playing second fiddle atm.


Still, checking in.

whiteflame

Alright, there's a lot of WIFOM analysis when it comes to who would be more likely to take the bullet vs. Casey and if I'm being honest, I'm not sure I buy either one all that well. Casey was just gone for a lot of the DP, so it's a fair chance that whoever was their partner had incentive to eliminate them just because they might not be active at all this DP. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Casey asked to be killed, though probably not until after DP1 ended or at least later into the DP. I'm going to re-read a bit, then make a decision. And no, this one isn't coming with a mile long explanation. It'll just be a vote.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 8/8/2026 at 10:24 AM (post #183)
I'd say both have small points in their favor and against, though if I had to pick now, Mag1c does seem like a more likely pairing with Casey than Thoth. That in part comes down to Thoth having more to say about Casey last DP, but it's also down to what we know from the two town-confirmed players who have been eliminated.
Casey really didn’t say much last DP. All I noticed was the friendliness in trying to greet people, which kinda looking like trying to get townread based on vibes to me.


I mean, I agree there wasn't much to say about Casey, I'm not arguing that you should've written a ton. And I recognize that you've been absent, so you just generally would have less to say, not that Thoth said a lot. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the limited thoughts on Casey, it just means I'm hesitant to put much weight on them. It's why I still haven't voted.

whiteflame

Well… I got kicked off my flight (overbooked) so that won’t be an impediment until Monday. Love getting up super early, standing in line for hours and having to do it all over again two days later.

whiteflame

Heads up: I'm going to have to call it an early night because I've got a 6 AM flight tomorrow, so I won't be on for long tonight. I will be on for as much of the day as possible tomorrow (and on very early in the morning), but I can't guarantee my participation through much of the morning or the early afternoon. I'll read and consider everything you guys post, but that may mean I don't vote until I get back home.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 8/7/2026 at 12:25 PM (post #170)
I get off work at 10. I can chime in more then.

current opinion is that i still lean toward my reads list from yesterday. I’m going to consider Whiteflame being scum but I feel like I nailed it DP1.

I don’t see Thoth-Casey unpaired at all


Alright, guess we’re in a holding pattern.

whiteflame

Alright, I'll give my thoughts in full on both Thoth and Mag1c, at least to the extent that I have any kind of read on them based on both their posts and those of Awesome and Hyper. I'd also base it on Casey's posts, but looking back, they had barely posted last DP and didn't give any reads. There's not a lot to go off of there, and I think that may have been the point of eliminating them. Or maybe Casey was just that busy and I'm reading into this too deeply.


Anyway, here are my beefier thoughts on both players:


Thoth -


Thoth being absent for long stretches of time is NAI, and not caring about this specific game is just unique to the game, but given it's a test game, fine, whatever. I still don't love the pushback on providing thoughts about the game last DP, but if he was just exhausted, I get it. He called out Mag1c as scummy in #124, but that was mainly reactive to Mag1c calling him out as scummy, which isn't much use to me. He called out Casey in #138 and #146 as well, giving them a small towntell in #139, so a bit of waffling there. Doing all this near the end of the DP and then voting Mag1c rather than Casey strikes me as odd. That's the main thing holding me back from just giving a solid read here - I think this could have been a last ditch effort to put some distance between the two of them knowing that Casey was exceedingly unlikely to be the lynch target last DP, but not wanting any chance of it actually happening.


As for DP2, I haven't seen much yet, but his ruminating on the possible reasons why Casey was chosen only to end with a shrug is kind of weird. Trying to push the DP to end faster just tracks with his desire to start his own game. He knows me well enough to know that I won't be pushed into voting without thinking it through, but doesn't want the game to just keep going in circles this DP. I'm waiting for that ISO.


Mag1c -


The back-and-forth of his read on me last DP settled into more of a towntell rhythm from where I was sitting, and not just because he landed on seeing me as town. I think his analysis made sense and that he would have put more focus on where he feels it's uncertain if he was scum. Maybe that assumption was a little too much, though, considering if he is scum, he left Thoth alive and I was already sussing Thoth a great deal last DP. If he was trying to put the focus on me, he would have killed Thoth and left Hyper alive. The reads he left last DP looked OK to me, though in retrospect, the read on Casey was a bit loose. That may just be due to the lack of activity from Casey, there wasn't a whole lot to build a read off of.


Nothing yet from him this DP.



I'd say both have small points in their favor and against, though if I had to pick now, Mag1c does seem like a more likely pairing with Casey than Thoth. That in part comes down to Thoth having more to say about Casey last DP, but it's also down to what we know from the two town-confirmed players who have been eliminated.


Hyper is the more instructive of these. They called out the plausible pairing of Casey and Mag1c multiple times. Admittedly, while they unpaired Thoth and Casey, that was stated to be a pretty weak read. That was, however, before Thoth came back and made a case against Casey. I wouldn't be surprised if that sentiment grew stronger at that point. Hyper did also say that there was some chance I was paired with Casey, but I'll leave that for you two to discuss.


Awesome is comparatively more difficult to read. He sussed me, ignored a lot of my posts by his own admission, and then said we should sheep Mag1c despite him townreading me. So clearly, he townread Mag1c. He didn't give any clear opinion on Thoth, though his position at the end seemed to be that we should all just vote Thoth.


So if they both had a choice and it wasn't informed by Casey's flip, then I'm sure both would advocate lynching Thoth. But with Casey's flip, at least Hyper would almost certainly advocate for Mag1c's lynch. Harder to determine what Awesome would do since we don't know the basis for his townread on Mag1c.


I'll leave it there for now, but those are my mostly complete thoughts. Mag1c, anytime you can, chime in.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/7/2026 at 5:12 AM (post #163)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/6/2026 at 8:11 PM (post #161)
I’m unclear. Why would Casey be the obvious kill with that pairing? I can see a basis myself, but it’s not 100%. Would you say you’re sussing Magic more than me right now? Is this your only reason?
Yes, I am. I should have explained my reasoning. I could be wrong, but I think that Mag1c is an overall stronger player than Casey, so it would make more sense to keep him alive.

Now that I think about it, I figure you are probably better than Casey, and Mag1c too, so that reasoning can go out the window.


Alright. Both Magic and Casey were getting some light attention last DP. Most of the attention was drawn to you and Awesome by the end, but Magic’s absence almost made him the default choice, and Casey was on some level in everyone’s POE. I think that might explain the choice to remove them. I recognize that, given I was widely townread, that puts a spotlight on me, but I call it like I see it.



Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/7/2026 at 5:13 AM (post #164)
Call me a scumlord, but I would like to end this game today, i.e., after I wake up in the afternoon Central time, so that I don't have to wait another day to run Blood on the Clocktower.


I’d like to at least hear from Magic, but I’m not intent on dragging this out too long.



Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/7/2026 at 5:14 AM (post #165)
Imma have to ISO both of you and see what each of you said about Casey. If it's Mag1c, that's annoying since I have much more to work from there. I know I could have contributed more too.


Feel free. I don’t have too much to dig into for either of you (I’ll still do a light ISO), so I’m going to try something new and see what I can surmise.

whiteflame

Pretty slow start. We don't have to drag this DP out, but I do at least want some of the thought process from each of you. I've already given some of mine, and I'll add to it if desired. Likely not staying up late tonight, so I'll pick up wherever you leave off tomorrow.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/6/2026 at 8:33 PM (post #160)
I can't say for sure that it's Magic/Casey, but I can say that a Magic/Casey would have 100% killed Casey rather than Magic. Possibly irrelevant now.


I’m unclear. Why would Casey be the obvious kill with that pairing? I can see a basis myself, but it’s not 100%. Would you say you’re sussing Magic more than me right now? Is this your only reason?

whiteflame

Given how widely townread Hyper was, I’m not surprised they were the NK target. Casey being scum was always a concern, probably why scum chose to eliminate them. That makes it much more likely the second scum is Magic than Thoth, as I agree with a lot of what Hyper mentioned about Magic and Casey being a pairing and Thoth and Casey largely being unpaired. That’s at least my initial thoughts. I’m open to some discussion, obviously no one should vote on the off chance that scum just quickhammers.

whiteflame

I’m leaving shortly and I don’t see a point in delaying this. I’m going to trust that Thoth is just exhausted and give him the benefit of the doubt. That makes the choice easier.


VTL: awesome5000

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/5/2026 at 6:32 PM (post #125)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/5/2026 at 5:25 PM (post #117)
Why are you like this, man? We’ve wanted you to talk for a while now, and you suddenly show up with 35 minutes left pretending there’s any uncertainty.
Couldn't sleep last night, was going to post, instead took ultra-high-dose melatonin in hopes I would be awake and mobile in the forenoon, ended up rolling around in bed from 3am until 10, am now barely awake and dragging my tired eyes across the thread.


Well, I’m sorry sleep was so elusive man. That sucks.

whiteflame

Well, not much of what’s been said is helping at this point. I’m still fine with choosing Awesome, even though Thoth stands out a little more to me right now. I agree that his posts since he’s been back haven’t helped his case.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/5/2026 at 6:29 PM (post #122)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/5/2026 at 5:21 PM (post #113)
Yes, I’ve seen him as scum several times. Generally speaking, he tends to draw attention to himself the more he posts
More as town than scum lol


Lord it over me why don’t you?

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/5/2026 at 6:23 PM (post #114)
If y'all want me to talk, I have about 35 minutes to do it.


Why are you like this, man? We’ve wanted you to talk for a while now, and you suddenly show up with 35 minutes left pretending there’s any uncertainty.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Hyper on 8/5/2026 at 6:18 PM (post #111)
To be honest, I'm sensing the game is a little bit cooked unless it's actually just awesome5000/Thoth (which feels like too much to ask for), so I don't have a particularly strong opinion on who goes this day phase as long as it's not one of the people posting decently. Was hoping for a slightly more active game for my first one in years, but that's just how it is sometimes.


Yeah, it’s been a pretty light game for posting, even taking into account that there are only 6 of us. Hopefully you’ll join for future games, this activity is not normal.



Originally Posted by Hyper on 8/5/2026 at 6:20 PM (post #112)
Also, it's a small thing, but I'm somewhat confused at how awesome5000's "sheeping Mag1cman" (#100) meshes with his scumread on whiteflame considering that whiteflame is Mag1cman's second-highest townread (#74).


Yeah, I don’t get that, either. I’m guessing he meant sheeping his scumreads and nothing else, but carving out what he feels matters from Magic’s reads and leaving the rest aside stands out a bit.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Hyper on 8/5/2026 at 6:14 PM (post #110)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/5/2026 at 3:10 PM (post #109)

Originally Posted by Hyper on 8/5/2026 at 6:06 PM (post #108)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/5/2026 at 3:04 PM (post #105)
I’ll be here until about 20 minutes before the DP ends. The fact that awesome has been more active makes me want to lynch Thoth, who came on just to give an excuse for why he didn’t think activity mattered at all.
Do you see activity as alignment indicative? I think it's generally beneficial to your alignment to be active regardless of being town or scum.

I see pushing back on being more active, specifically by Thoth, as being off of his usual playstyle. Stand-out elements like that are mainly what I’m considering when it comes to lynches. The reason itself is NAI and just being absent for long stretches is kind of his thing.
Got it. Have you seen Thoth as scum? The way I typically use meta is as a way to prove seemingly scummy behavior is standard for a given player's town playstyle; in contrast, there are a lot of reasons why a player might play differently than their usual style, and I see Thoth's explanation of not taking the game seriously here as consistent with that, even if it's frustrating. I hesitate to actually townread it, of course, but it contrasts with awesome5000's return, which really moved nothing at all for me.


Yes, I’ve seen him as scum several times. Generally speaking, he tends to draw attention to himself the more he posts, which I think he might be actively avoiding here. The reason for it might appear somewhat reasonable, but I can’t say it’s moved the needle in a positive direction for me. Awesome just hasn’t moved it at all.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Hyper on 8/5/2026 at 6:06 PM (post #108)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/5/2026 at 3:04 PM (post #105)
I’ll be here until about 20 minutes before the DP ends. The fact that awesome has been more active makes me want to lynch Thoth, who came on just to give an excuse for why he didn’t think activity mattered at all.
Do you see activity as alignment indicative? I think it's generally beneficial to your alignment to be active regardless of being town or scum.


I see pushing back on being more active, specifically by Thoth, as being off of his usual playstyle. Stand-out elements like that are mainly what I’m considering when it comes to lynches. The reason itself is NAI and just being absent for long stretches is kind of his thing.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Hyper on 8/5/2026 at 6:02 PM (post #104)
Thoth's explanation is frustrating but plausible, unfortunately. I don't think it's particularly alignment indicative (perhaps slightly towny if I had to choose, since I'd expect his scum partner, unless it's exactly awesome5000, to be telling him to take the game a bit more seriously).


I’d agree, but low effort seems to be the name of the game at this point for most of the people in here. Maybe he is scum and his partner’s also inactive, or maybe he’s just not interested. That much would be NAI, but specifically pushing off of posting more actively is just beyond me.

whiteflame

I’ll be here until about 20 minutes before the DP ends. The fact that awesome has been more active makes me want to lynch Thoth, who came on just to give an excuse for why he didn’t think activity mattered at all.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by awesome5000 on 8/5/2026 at 5:38 PM (post #98)
This game literally isn’t very active lmao

Isn’t the way these things work is people post as if it’s a turbo starting 1-2 hours before EoD?


I won’t pretend this has been an active game, but let’s not pretend there’s been nothing to respond to. And yes, people do tend to get more active before EoD, just unusual for someone to be almost entirely absent and suddenly show up for the last hour or two.



Originally Posted by awesome5000 on 8/5/2026 at 5:40 PM (post #99)
My style is literally skipping over walls (other than when my name is mentioned) and reading live posts

sue me


Alright, at least other people are reading them.


Honestly, I think sheeping magic might be the right play here


Can you explain that at all? Why do you think Magic is town? Do you agree with his read on Thoth? Why?

whiteflame


Originally Posted by awesome5000 on 8/5/2026 at 5:32 PM (post #92)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 8/5/2026 at 6:41 AM (post #67)

Originally Posted by awesome5000 on 8/4/2026 at 10:25 AM (post #32)
I decided to vote the GLOBAL MODERATOR so it wasn’t completely random lmao

(also you can check the database on MU for my games, I don’t feel like linking it because I got temp banned from that site)
So, what do you think of Whiteflame’s reaction to it?

I think it’s wolfy tbh

he hedges so hard to just call me “odd” as if that’s supposed to be a real conclusion but also says “not sus” to not look bad if/when i flip


Considering I've fleshed out my read on you a couple of times now, I don't love that this is the only response you have to everything I've said about you.



Originally Posted by awesome5000 on 8/5/2026 at 5:34 PM (post #93)
p#75 scumreading my activity is cringe lmao


I'm not alone in that, but hey, glad you could join us again. You've successfully posted more times than you have all DP in the last 10 minutes.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/5/2026 at 5:09 PM (post #90)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/5/2026 at 4:08 PM (post #89)
I mean... I literally have no history of just laying down or turbolynching anyone DP1. Don't know why you'd think that would change here.
It says host test game. I can't imagine Kohai was especially interested in having us take a bunch of time that delays testing.


If he didn't want this to be an active game, he would have made the DP 1 hour or less and told us to just wing it with our votes. The OP likely wouldn't include mechanical changes that will affect future DP/NPs, either. It's your choice if you care enough to participate, but I don't get this point that the game was setup to avoid showing any kind of effort.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 8/5/2026 at 5:04 PM (post #88)
I know y'all are wondering why I have been posting so little. I didn't realize that y'all were going to take this game remotely seriously. I thought we would just turbolynch each other at random so Kohai could test the host dashboard.


I mean... I literally have no history of just laying down or turbolynching anyone DP1. Don't know why you'd think that would change here.