Casey_Risk

So it's just SOP to vote based on almost nothing in DP1?

I wouldn't say 'almost nothing'. Sometimes DP1 can have some really substantive discussion. That's just not how it's happened this time around.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm really tired after a long day at work and am struggling to think coherently, but here's a few of my thoughts. Magic feels town to me. I wasn't sure at first, but his analysis tonight feels genuine to me. I can't put my finger on it, it just feels a lot more like his town play than his scum play.

I have no idea how to read Thoth. I've only seen him in one game before and I was the mod, so I can't say for sure how I would have read him had I been town. I respect his effort, at least.

Luna tilts town because of the whole LotR thing. Fakeable, but feels genuine. Also tilt town on Wryly for the interaction about his character. Feels like it represents an actual town thought process.

Still lean town on Mikal and RT for the instaclaims. Null on everyone I haven't already mentioned.

Need more soft claims. Perhaps we could say if our character is a protagonist or antagonist?

I actually don't think softclaims are the way to go here, especially this late in the DP. I will say this: it would be helpful to me, personally, if everyone claimed whether or not they are from Araluen, and if so, what Fief they are from. But obviously, that would put the town in danger of narrowing things down too much and benefitting scum, so I don't actually suggest we do that. But there is a particular reason I bring this up. (It'll make sense later.)

If we do have antagonists for one scum, then it's a near guarantee the theme split is just protagonists vs. antagonists

I disagree, Pie's theme splits tend to be very non-obvious.

VTL Casey

Is this just for activity? Because if so, fair.

Also, fwiw, my character is actually female.

CC = Counter-Claim? Either way, why would one be a pseudo-CC of the other?

Because trying to directly target a Hider will cause the intended night action to fail. Or at least, that's how I implemented it in my last game (before Deltarune). I guess Hider is a role with many common variations now that I think about it.

Hey all, sorry for not being more active. Truth be told, if this site had a larger player base, I probably wouldn't have signed up for this one. I'm working overtime every day this week, and this weekend I'm going on a road trip (going to Cleveland to see Nine Inch Nails live!) So I'm pretty busy, but I'll admit I could be at least a little more active than I have been. Give me a moment to get caught up.

Any idea what that’s about?

Seems pretty obvious to me that the names correlate to the numbered list given in the OP.

Still don't get how Asceticiser and Compulsive Hider complement each other.

It's about interesting and often complex role interactions, a staple of Pie's games. The Asceticizer could end up stopping the Hider from actually being able to hide.

Though, come to think of it, I suppose one could also be considered a pseudo-CC of the other... Will have to think about Mikal's claim a little more

I think the key here is that the claim feels too stupid to be scummy. I find it hard to believe that he claimed a character one would only have to think is a decent fake claim with some exceptional research and/or knowledge, and then would still have argue against the perception of it being a deep pull when it’s kinda middling, and then slap on a stretchy justification, all while claiming off the rip with no pressure.

One would think if you have an aggressive claim you want to try as scum, you’d want to make sure you have a darn good justification first.

I agree with this reasoning. I have a hard time seeing RT come up with this fakeclaim on the spot. Either he's scum straightclaiming, or he's town. I don't think the former is very likely, either, just because of how reckless that decision would be, so I'm leaning town pretty hard on RT.

Follow-up: Why did you each pick the numbers/players that you did?

Honestly, I just chose randomly. I had no idea where you were going with the numbers but wanted to just let you cook. I figured you wouldn't do anything stupid based on our numbers at least.

I'm curious how characters are split into town versus scum. I would think that protagonists are town and antagonists are scum, but Deltarune had enemies as town and protagonists as scum, presumably because, and Casey can confirm this if she hasn't already and I forgot, there weren't enough heroes to fill town.

Yeah that's partially it, and also partially because I like to have more interesting theme splits than good vs evil. Pie does as well, so I wouldn't assume that the mafia side of the split is made up of antagonists, nor would I assume that any antagonistic character is necessarily mafia. In a previous Pie game, Inheritance Cycle, one of the town characters was the main villain of the entire series, and from what I can tell, he was meant to be a particularly evil guy. Luna ended up leading the lynch on the one who claimed him, only for him to flip town.

So basically what I'm saying is, I wouldn't make any naive assumptions like that if I were you.

Whoops, kind of forgot about this game. Give me a moment to get caught up.

I saw Casey say something about the Asceticiser somehow pairing well with Hider, which is what I thought you were responding to. I'm more focused on why Casey would make that statement rather than RT and Mikal being involved somehow in generating that fake claim with Casey's backing.

When I said that, I was mainly thinking of the last game I hosted before Deltarune Mafia, The Russian Mafia. I included both a Hider and an Asceticiser in that game since I thought the role interactions there were interesting and made for potentially interesting play/counterplay. Though I suppose it is worth noting that the Hider in that game was also a 3P Survivor.

What's the justification?

I am an Asceticiser

Okay, not sure why everyone is claiming these roles off the rip... It does at least pair well with Hider, so I'm inclined to believe this claim, as well as Mikal's.

If you're going to claim your role, why not claim your character as well?

Like I knew anything about Deltarune? What goes around comes around.

Sure, most players weren't familiar with that theme, either, but Deltarune is also a super popular game right now, so at least it's easy to research. Though, a theme being hard to research seems to hurt scum a lot more than town.

3

I know literally nothing about this theme, so this one is going to be interesting.

You can actually tag more than five people in a single post now, at least on the Mafia forum, which is pretty cool imo

Would Anticlaim have nullified my Bulletproof? I speculated in mod chat, and maybe also publicly, that nullifying protective abilities was not the Anticlaim mechanic because my role weakness would be redundant. I am even more surprised given that, unless I missed something, the only protective abilities were my Bulletproof and Lunatic's Jailkeeper. Did Mafia know what the Anticlaim effect was?

Yes to both questions. Yeah, there was a little bit of redundancy with your own role and Anticlaim, but even so, two protective abilities in a 10-player game is pretty good, especially when one of them is every night and can stop the NK by targeting the killer or the intended victim.

Could McDonald's have used each of his abilities more than once?

No, no ability could have been used more than once.

Thats actually wild that the only ever time ive even heard of a beholder was when me and mikal discussed using it as a fake claim and he happened to actually get that role here lol crazy coincidence

Yeah, that really was a wild coincidence. The mafia should have capitalized on that opportunity harder than they did.

Endgame!

Night Actions:

NP1:

1. Mafia waives Anticlaim
2. McDonalds uses JEVILSTAIL on Wylted/Shining
3. Lunatic jails Rex
4. Wylted/Shining uses Role Cop on Rex
5. Whiteflame sings to RT
6. Pie follows Whiteflame
7. Mikal beholds Whiteflame
8. Ultra kills Pie

NP2:

1. Mafia uses Anticlaim: Whiteflame/Caroler (successful)
2. McDonalds uses THE WORLD REVOLVING on Mikal
3. Shining Redirects Mikal to Whiteflame
4. Lunatic jails Mikal
5. Whiteflame sings to Rex
6. Mikal beholds Rex (redirected to Whiteflame by Shining; blocked by Luna)
7. Ultra kills WF (strengthened by Anticlaim)

NP3:

1. Mafia automatically waives Anticlaim due to timeout
2. McDonalds uses DEVILSKNIFE on Rex
3. Lunatic jails Ultra
4. Mikal beholds Lunatic
5. Ultra kills Mikal (blocked by Lunatic)

Town:

whiteflame - You are Ralsei! "This is a world where we don't have to fight. I know if we try, we can all find another way..." Ralsei is the Prince of Castle Town and the healer of the party. As the first person that Kris and Susie are properly introduced to in the dark world, Ralsei explains the ancient prophecy of the three heroes who appear to seal the dark fountains and save the world from eternal night, with Ralsei himself being one of the three. In battle, Ralsei is the healer, able to cast healing spells as well as pacify tired enemies. At times, he can even sing to enemies to help put them to sleep. Therefore, you are the Caroler. Once per night, you may target any other player. They will receive three randomly chosen names, at least one of which will be Mafia-aligned. However, if your target uses (or attempts to use) any night action, they will not be at home to hear your song and thus will not receive any names. You may not attempt to target the same player two nights in a row. You win with the Town.

ILikePie5 - You are Queen! "Kris Get The Banana" Queen is the main antagonist of Chapter 2 of Deltarune. A computer who tries to make everyone into one of her peons, Queen tries to capture the lightners throughout the cyber world. After finally capturing them successfully, she uses information from their search histories to fill their cells with items she naively believes will keep them content and not want to leave. You may also look at other player's histories. You are the 2x Follower. Two nights per game, you may target any other player to see what category of action they use, if any (informational, protective, killing, etc.). You win with the Town.

Mikal - You are Berdly! "That's LORD Berdly to you simpletons!" Berdly is THE nerd in Hometown, constantly flaunting his intelligence, much to the annoyment of those around him. As he later admits, however, his reputation as a smart kid only started after he won the school spelling bee in elementary school, and he became addicted to the praise and attention. Noelle is the truly intelligent one, and Berdly only does well academically because of her helping him study. Like Berdly, you can gain information, but only through someone else. You are the Beholder. Once per night, you may target any other player. If your target learns anything from an informational role, you will also learn that information. If your target dies, but would have received information had they lived, you will receive the information they would have received. You win with the Town.

Lunatic - You are Seam! (It's pronounced "Shawm".) "Around here, you learn to find ways to pass the time... or go mad like everyone else." Seam is an old shopkeeper encountered in the Card Kingdom. Previously, Seam was the Court Magician and a good friend of the Court Jester Jevil, but after Jevil went mad, Seam was forced to lock him away. If questioned about Jevil, Seam will give the party one of three pieces to the key to his cell and provide a hint at where to find another. Therefore, you are the Jailkeeper. Once per night, you may jail any other player, protecting them from lethal actions, but also preventing them from using any active abilities. You win with the Town.

RexFavilla - You are King! "To my people, I am a hero... to you? I'M THE BAD GUY!!!" King is a tyrant ruler and the main antagonist of Chapter 1 of Deltarune. Previously one of four kings who ruled the Card Kingdom, King became the sole ruler after pledging allegiance to the Knight, who created the kingdom's dark fountain. Angry at the lightners for supposedly abandoning the darkners in the kingdom, King pursued vengeance and declared war against them. After being defeated by the three heroes in battle, he falsely claims that he never really wanted war and convinces Ralsei to heal him, only to then attack and attempt to kill the party once again. Likewise, you may attempt to kill someone else if you are killed by a group of others. You are the Hunter. If you are lynched, the day will enter Twilight, during which you may choose to kill any other living player, taking them out with you. You may also pre-select a player to be killed if you are the lynch. This ability will not activate on a MYLO/LYLO day. You win with the Town.

RationalTheist - You are Spamton! "WHY BE THE [Little Sponge] WHO HATES ITS [$4.99] LIFE WHEN YOU CAN BE A [BIG SHOT!!!]" Spamton is an Addison encountered in Chapter 2 of Deltarune. At first an unsuccessful salesman, Spamton suddenly became hugely successful after talking with an unknown mysterious person on the phone, becoming rich and even earning a spot in Queen's mansion. Unfortunately for him, his life all came crashing down after the person on the phone mysteriously disappears. When he is first encountered in the game, Spamton is quite literally living in a dumpster. Due to his memorable and interesting story, speaking quirks, and deep lore implications, Spamton became an instant breakout character upon the release of Chapter 2, earning the adoration of fans and inspiring the official Spamton Sweepstakes, a charity/auction-cum-ARG which revealed many tidbits of Deltarune lore. Because Spamton is such a popular character, you are the Popular Townie. In order to be lynched, you require one more vote than it takes to reach a majority. This ability is deactivated at MYLO/LYLO. You win with the Town.

McDonaldsReal - You are Jevil! "I CAN DO ANYTHING!" Jevil was the Court Jester in the Card Kingdom until one day when he met a strange person and descended into madness, viewing the world as one big game. For this, he was forcibly locked away indefinitely under Card Castle. If the party unlocks his cage, however, he can be fought as an optional and infamously difficult boss. As the incarnation of the Joker card in the dark world, Jevil has access to a variety of different attacks. Likewise, you have access to a variety of different abilities. You are the Dreaming God. You have four different 'mystery abilities'. You may choose one ability per night and a player other than yourself to use it on, but you will not learn what it does until after the night has ended. You win with the Town. Abilities:

1. DEVILSKNIFE [If your target is lynched on the following day, you will gain a 1x Vigilante shot which you may use to target and kill any other player on the following night, in addition to using one of your other abilities.]
2. JEVILSTAIL [Your target's night action(s), if they take any, will be immune to interference from blocking/manipulation roles.]
3. CHAOS BOMB [Any and all actions directed at you will be deflected to your target instead and vice versa.]
4. THE WORLD REVOLVING [Your target will be informed that they have been targeted with an action, but not who targeted them.]

Thoth - You are C. Round/K. Round! "K. Round practiced self-care!" C. Round is a lowly little checker in the Card Kingdom who is instantly and inevitably defeated after a single turn in battle. However, upon reaching the end of the Great Board, it is crowned and turns into the mighty K. Round, able to endlessly heal itself. K. Round cannot be defeated through fighting and can only be defeated by getting the crown to fall from its head. You can become immune to fighting as well. You are the 1x Bulletproof. One night per game, you may choose to put on a crown, making you immune to lethal actions during that night (this does not count as an action). However, because the uncrowned C. Round is so weak and cannot win a battle, on every other night, you cannot be protected from lethal actions by any other roles. You win with the Town.

Mafia:

Wylted/Shining - You are Kris! Kris Dreemurr is the silent protagonist of Deltarune and the only human in Hometown. A quiet and troubled teen, Kris is often overshadowed in life by their well-respected older brother Asriel. In the dark worlds, however, Kris finds themself at the center of an ancient prophecy - one of three heroes who appear to banish the Angel's Heaven! You, on the other hand, are not one of the heroes of this game, as you are the Mafia JOAT.You have four abilities, of which you may use one per night, but you may not use any ability more than once. You win with the Mafia.

1. 1x Role Cop - Use the Check ACT to learn more about an opponent. One night per game, you may target any other player to learn their full role PM.
2. 1x Janitor - Gather up all the things from where you sealed a dark fountain and stuff them in the closet. One night per game, you may hide the flip of the NK target, causing the character and role to be revealed only to the mafia. If this action fails, it will not be refunded.
3. 1x Redirector - Use your authority as the party leader to direct other members' actions. One night per game, you may target any other player to direct their night action(s) (if they use any) at the target of your choice.
4. 1x Rolestopper - Rip out the very SOUL residing within you and assert your own free will. One night per game, you may target any player to cause all other actions directed at that player to fail. (However, this will also prevent your target from being affected by lethal actions, including the Mafia NK.)

Ultracrepidarian - You are Susie! "Quiet people piss me off." Susie is the local bully in Hometown. After falling into the dark world with Kris and learning her place in the prophecy, however, she begins to grow into her true potential as a person - that of a hero. You, however, are not the hero of this game. Rather, you win with the Mafia and have the following abilities:

1. Susie is at first very resistant to playing her role as a hero, paying little attention to the prophecy and trying to use violence against everyone she encounters. After being criticized for not acting like a hero, she even joins the side of the antagonists for a short time before eventually agreeing to rejoin the party. Therefore, you are the Prideful Mafioso. If you are targeted by two or more actions on any given night, all actions used on you during that night will fail.
2. Susie is known as the local bully and even threatens Kris with violence shortly after she is introduced in Deltarune, yet we never see her get in any real trouble. In fact, despite her reputation, several people develop a crush on her - Kris, Noelle, and Berdly are all shown to be catching feelings for her. Therefore, you are also the 1x Ninja. One night per game, you may perform an NK which cannot be detected by any informational role.

Factional Abilities:

1. Night Kill - Once per night, you may target any non-mafia player to attempt to kill them. If both members of the Mafia are still alive, you must decide who will carry out the kill.
2. Anticlaim - Once per night, you may name any player and a role. If the named player has the named role, they will be unable to be protected from the NK by any protective roles. This may NOT be used on a player on whom you have successfully used Role Cop, unless that player has publicly claimed their role. If using Anticlaim on a player you have Role Copped, you must cite the post where they claimed their role. You will be told if your Anticlaim attempt was successful or not. Once you have used Anticlaim on a player successfully, you may not use it on that player again.
3. Fakeclaim help - Kris and Susie are two of the three main characters of Deltarune. As such, you may well be able to get away with claiming your actual characters. If you decide to fakeclaim, however, you may use this list to help. At least two characters in the list are not in the game, but beware, because at least one character is in the game: Jevil, Lancer, Noelle, Rouxls Kaard, Spamton

It was as if your very SOUL was glowing...

IT'S A TOWN VICTORY!

Mafia: Wylted/Shining, Ultracrepidarian

Town: ILikePie5, Mikal, Lunatic, whiteflame, RexFavilla, Thoth, McDonaldsReal, RationalTheist

Commentary:

So, that went well for the town. In large part, this was due to a really inactive mafia. Wylted scarcely had any presence at all this game. He was on briefly during DP1 and then vanished completely, both from the public thread and from mafia chat. Shining subbed in, but tbh, that did very little to improve activity. I can hardly imagine scum chat being much more of a ghost town than it already was. There was hardly any discussion of potential fakeclaims or what other players might be. In fact, during NP3, Shining had to submit for Owen just before the deadline. He chose to kill Mikal, but somehow forgot that he had already claimed, so he ended up waiving Anticlaim, allowing the NK to be blocked by Luna. Though, at that point the Mafia was already in a tough situation anyway.

I knew this game would be pretty swingy even before I started it, and it ended up swinging pretty hard toward the town, though that's partially because the scum team let it happen that way. Going into NP2, I think the scum team had a really decent chance of winning. Mikal looked sus, moreso than Shining, and there was even room to push a potential WF/RT team. DP3 is where everything fell apart for the scum team, however.

As far as balance goes, I think this game may have been a bit more townsided than I realized at first. There were several ways for the town to get information, but there was also room for counterplay. I think the Mafia JOAT was pretty strong, and Ultra would have been hard to investigate/interfere with. The Caroler was helpful, but also could have ended up targeting scum, and the list of town players it could theoretically sing to was fairly narrow. Plus, even the town Jailkeeper could have interfered with that. If the mafia had decided to kill RT instead of Pie during NP1, this would have been a very different game. I'm open to thoughts and constructive criticism regarding the balance, tho.

Town MVP goes to Whiteflame for getting not one, but TWO carols successfully sent out, which was extremely helpful to the town, even if Rex didn't even see the carol sent to him until after the game was over, lol. Also, I would like to compliment our new player, McDonaldsReal! You did fantastic for your first game on here! Certainly much better than I did in mine. Also, I just want to say that I saw your softclaim during DP1, and it was perfect. No one else seemed to catch it since no one else was nearly as familiar with the theme, but that ended up being a good thing since it led to a CC.

In the end, I hope everyone was able to have some fun with this one. GG!

Was trying to skate by and seem scummy enough to not be NKed and to potentially be lynched at the end. When I'm lynched the DP enters twilight and I can choose someone to kill. If I was in the final three was going to try vote myself and trick scum into quickhammering so I could kill them.

Well, that would have been bad since your role would have deactivated at MYLO/LYLO

/in Finance