/backup only for now
/backup only for now
Also, I made some mistakes with setup balance. Originally the setup was gonna be 14p with 10 town (one of which would be a cop), 3 Mafia, and 1 third party ghost. I wasn't sure what to do with the setup balance since I only had 12p so I decided to remove the ghost and the cop. The result was a game which was too scumsided.
Yeah, it was a pretty scumsided game... That we still managed to lose LMAO! But I had fun either way.
Yeah, I can't blame you for that. Ironically, though, it's what got me back into the game
I learned my lessons with Ai cards. Even if they look cool. The amount j had to clarify lol
Having three near-identical roles in the game didn't help, either. Please don't do that again
Good job town! My reads were shit this game so it's good that scum screwed themselves over, and that the rest of the town played well overall. Banana and Magic played very well imo after their teammates got ejected, they just got PoE'd hard mechanically.
This was my role card:
Why are you dead?
Have you been paying attention???
Why do you think both are town?
I've been townreading Banana, Shining is more of a gut feeling
Well, guess I'm dead now. See y'all in the Endgame thread
Okay, did some speed reading, basically caught up. I'm fine with the Shining lynch, don't want to hammer yet. I do get the unshakable feeling that both Banana and Shining are town tho. If Shining flips town, take a second look at Rex and Awesome. Getting bad vibes there.
Hey I'm here and trying to get caught up before the deadline, tho I am still at work. how much time is left in the DP?
This is a good point. I'm starting to think I may excluded Rex from my PoE too easily.
Give me a behavioral reason to sus Kohai
Its Kohai and Banana. Sure of it now.
OMGUS much?
It’s not that she wasn’t hard scum, it’s that she was providing an out
How so?
I actually think it is. Cause Shining brought up how Alyssa wasn’t really a popular, more like a lynchproof
Not sure I understand your point here
Where?
I'd have to go back and reread, but I remember her being a bit more hesitant on the Alyssa wagon than most everyone else.
Even if Banana in a vacuum wouldn’t, she also has partners. ... The farming town cred is sort of a WIFOM argument
Yeah, she could have been getting help. Anything is possible. It still would be a change in her scum play. And I still find it hard to scumread her merely for not joining an incorrect wagon.
I’ve said that I’m 50/50 on Banana and Shining. Both have bad qualities and both have good qualities
Fair enough
Do you think Banana is scum? Who is if she isn't?
Regarding #736: I'm going to be honest, I straight up don't see the first post as being scummy at all. It's detailed, shows her entire thought process, and she leans scum on Thoth. Why should I scumread her for scumreading Thoth? Because she wasn't hard scum on him? That's weak.
And the next two are just her listing minor points of favor for Alyssa being town. Big deal. Wryly was doing the same thing and you trust her Cop claim. I was prepared to start a CW on Mestari as I said earlier. Though you might not trust me here, either... Okay. But you trust Wryly, right?
I get the mechanical argument against Banana. It looks bad for her, obviously. But you always have to look at behavior and mechanics combined. It's like with the weather, you look at historical trends to temper the immediate leading indicators of the weather. Nate Silver does the same thing with political forecasting: you look at the fundamentals, and you look at the polls, and you weigh both of them together, and you consider which is giving the stronger signal. For me, I just don't see the behavioral case against Banana. I know you brought up her defending Helz, but I actually don't think she'd do that as scum. As scum, I'd expect her to follow the bandwagon if the town wanted to mislynch someone. Trying to defend someone for towncred would be a change in her scum play, but being contrarian is normal for her town play. I also think she makes a really good point in #750; she hasn't been trying to farm town cred off that like she could.
Idk, obviously you disagree and that's your prerogative. But I don't see the behavioral case against her, and I think behavior has to be higher in importance over mechanics in this game. The lack of an NK isn't inexplicable if she's town, and I'm inclined to believe she is.
Unvote
Meant to do that in my last post but forgot since I'm a dumbass
I think shining has a higher chance of being a wolf than banana
I agree. Got out of work, will share more thoughts in a bit
You're not wrong about Shining being a mislynch magnet, but he does it to himself.
Where did he say this? I’m pretty sure he just claimed his ability.
I thought he said something about it being automatic and not an action he has to take? Maybe I misunderstood or am misremembering. Hopefully he'll clarify
Has Awesome been scum yet on DC?
Neither of them have contributed much to the game at all, and neither have been engaging in questions asked of them. I know I said earlier that I was rethinking my stance on Shining based on his claim, and I don't retract that. I would expect him to come up with something better as scum. But with both him and Awesome, the only things that make me want to townread either of them are there claims. Behaviorally, there's little to nothing there to townread that I can see.
A couple things are bothering me about this DP
Who do you want to lynch behaviorally and why
Shining and Awesome are my least favorites overall behaviorally. I'd like to hear them both answer the question I posed earlier
Okay, but that role also doesn't suck at all.
because my role sucks lmao?
Motivator does NOT suck, what???
Alright, got some good responses there. I often think back to the first game I hosted, Ace Attorney Mafia, and the town v town fight that broke out there, and how they weren't really willing to consider the idea that they were both town. Savant actually did get a good read on the real mafia, but got convinced out of it. Sometimes I feel like I learned the lesson from that game too well, however. It feels like I can always see the reasons to townread someone, but I'm bad at finding the right reasons to scumread someone. I'll often end up passionately defending someone who ends up being scum after all. But I was right at least once when I defended someone no one else did, when I defended Owen in Atypical mafia. So I think that maybe what I have to do here is just share my thoughts out loud and see what everyone else thinks, and I have to do it now bc I'm a dead player walking.
But something about Banana's behavior reminds me of Owen's in a way. I remember that as scum, she was always very combative when pressed. Here, she's still kind of indignant, but also pliant. But she did also give her reads when pressed. What I can't stop thinking about is that exchange where she said she wasn't even an Avoider at all, that her role did something different, before realizing that she was actually basically an Avoider after all. It struck me as very towny. If she were scum, she'd have prepared her fake claim and know what it was.
And then there is Shining. To be honest, I find him practically impossible to read behaviorally, since he never gives us much to work with. But I do think I understand what he was getting at earlier. In all the games with him I can remember where he was scum, he was always a lot bolder with his claims - Town JOAT in Recycled Roles, Strengthener in Ace Attorney, Brainshocker in Deltarune. I don't generally like self-analysis as an argument because if you can prove that you know how you act as scum, you can choose not to act that way, but I'll concede that there is a difference there. What struck me when I ISOd him was the way he described his character card, being a kind of lazy AI-generated thing. I haven't seen many others talk about that yet, though maybe I just missed it. I've missed a lot, but it lines up with my card as well.
In the end, Shining is a low-engagement player, so I guess it's not going to be a huge loss if we lynch him and he's town. Somehow, though, I've got bad vibes. And sometimes I'm just too naive as a town player, so maybe I'm just wrong. Earlier, during DP2, I was doubting that Alyssa was scum and was actually considering a counter-wagon on Mestari (since he's the other one who knew Mikal as a mod and would know he himself was a common fearkill). So maybe I'm onto nothing, but that's why I asked the question I did, to make sure we explore these other possibilities, and to help get reads on other players. Seeing someone's (alleged) thought process can be quite revealing. And I will say that I really liked the way Whiteflame and Kohai responded. Not impressed with Awesome's lack of a response.
Anyway, my break is over already, but some food for thought.
Hmm, okay then.
Going to wait for some more responses to my question. Will ISO Awesome tomorrow. It's the only way I can read him since I don't know him. Has he been scum yet? Gonna go to bed for now. Be back tomorrow
Why did you decline?
With Awesome, I'm just kind of null on behaviorally, but I do think his claim makes sense. It's another instance of my seeing the likelihood of Mikal authoring that role for Airmax, and I don't think Awesome is terribly likely to have come up with it, nor for that matter is Thoth nor Alyssa.
Wait, what's Awesome's claim? I missed it
I'm gonna ask everyone here a question, similar to the one I asked DP1. Let's say that Shining and Banana are both town. What does this mean for you? Who is scum in this scenario?