Mikal wrote:
You missed what I was asking. You said you scum read bullish. Why
It's a PoE thing. WF gives me strong town vibes and he trusts you. The way you've been interacting with others this DP feels organic and not faked to me. I also get the feeling that Bullish's magnet theory about you and WF may be accurate. All of this looks good for you, and I highly doubt all three players in my dream are scum. PoE therefore says that there has to be one scum between Bullish and Luna.
I wouldn't say it's accurate to say that my justification has to do with the "practical usage" of my element. It's simply based on what magnesium does at the biochemical level in the human brain.
Could you restate your role and justification?
Mikal wrote:
Why bullish for you?
I assume this was directed at me? He definitely could be scum, I'm not writing him off by any means. But his suggestion about you and WF being paired up in a chat as a scripted event, that's something that both seems plausible to me and something that scum would likely keep in their back pocket, at least for a bit. Less town knowledge = more town confusion = more chaos = good for scum
You said bullish was in your poe in that list. If not that then what
I don't quite understand your meaning here. Obviously if Bullish is town, then PoE says either you or Luna (or both) are scum.
Its unlikely that many investigative roles exist. Could they exist, sure, but its incredibly strong and personally it makes me take pause.
I think you're overrating the collective strength of these roles. Dreamer is very luck-based (I wouldn't have dreamt if anyone had visited me), and Motion Detector isn't that great either. Being time traveling does increase its utility, but only to a certain extent. Tracker is good, but still affected by the apparent redirection going on in this game. This game also had more players than usual, and we don't know what scum have.
Even if they all exist because pie is on Crack. Someone as town should take pause of that and not just assume that. It bleeds tmi
That's not unreasonable, but again the strength of this argument is contingent on how much I agree with you vis a vis balance in this game.
Why did you suddenly Unvote in #155?
Bullish wrote:
Is lunatic the only who's role is based off of his element's history rather than its properties?
This is a good question. I was about to say that my gut is telling me that Luna is scum here. Sharp observation!
I'm not sure it's actually so implausible that all the claimed investigative roles so far are real. I know mine is real at least and Rex seems pretty towny to me as well; I'm inclined to believe his claim. Bullish's is definitely the most sus one FMPOV, but Pie was the first one to include Time Traveler in one of his games and I can definitely see him reusing it, plus the justification makes enough sense to me. I also think it's possible to overrate how strong it is; unless someone claims that they moved when they didn't (unlikely), it's hard to unambiguously catch someone in a lie with it. This also seems to be a game with a lot of redirect potential especially given the town Strengthener, which weakens investigative roles somewhat. I also know that Pie as a mod intentionally includes pseudo-CCs in his games sometimes; Heroic Heroes being a good example (my role and JoeBob's were intentionally made very similar), and I don't think Tracker and Motion Detector being in the same game is too unusual anyway. The balance argument against Bullish is unconvincing to me personally
RexFavilla wrote:
Is there guaranteed to only be ONE scum in your results or could there be multiple?
Guaranteed at least one, possibly more than one. Obviously it's highly unlikely that I happened to get three scum in my dream, but two is a possibility. Right now, I'm leaning towards either Luna or Bullish, slight possibility of both
Bullish wrote:
I think it's possible, mechanically, that Mikal and whiteflame simply got put together into a PM as a scripted event, since they both claimed magnets. So it's possible no one will claim neighborizer.
Bullish wrote:
Neodymium and Samarium Cobalt come up as the top results for strongest magnetic metals.
This is actually a fascinating theory. I kind of buy it tbh
whiteflame wrote:
Casey_Risk wrote:
The justification makes passable sense. I think I remember a game with this role, but it’s a while back and I’m not going digging.
I think it was CoD Black Ops Mafia. There was a role like it in that game
Damn, you have a better memory for this stuff than I do. Well done.
I pride myself on having really good game memory. It's probably my best quality as a Mafia player imho
The justification makes passable sense. I think I remember a game with this role, but it’s a while back and I’m not going digging.
I think it was CoD Black Ops Mafia. There was a role like it in that game
Mikal wrote:
I was asking him how my role functions and how it would interact with other roles. He offered up how it worked with a bus driver without me even asking about a bus driver.
Okay. I don't know if we can necessarily assume a bus driver from that, but I wouldn't be surprised if one was in the game.
Lunatic wrote:
As for Luna, I was townreading them about as much as anyone going into the last NP, but I can't say I've got a solid read on him this DP. I get confusion in response to all this, but not so much the shrug that he gave in his last post. I still want to townread him, but it's moving towards null.
Hardly just "shrugging it off". I have asked both of you what your thoughts are on the mess and neither of you have a clear answer towards it but "All I know is I am town". I don't really see the point in talking to just you two about it, I would like to see others comment, banana, shining, helz, magic, rex, etc.
Gonna be honest, my head isn't quite right atm, so I'm having trouble making heads or tails of anything. I feel like more attention should be given to Helz claiming such a strong protective role. Given all the apparent redirection going on, it could be that his role just failed, but it could also just be a gambit. Have to think on this some more.
Mikal wrote:
Ogi but again pointing this out. Pie basically mod slipped there was a bus driver
Sorry, can you explain this one to me?
Thoth wrote:
Let me guess: The minor difference is that it works even if you were visited, so you can deploy that defense if someone claims they visited you.
Nope
I dislike the dreamer claim. Since mafia had questions. Its a very easy claim to send us off a cliff and it would be a gambit to claim it but since casey was a prime target would not put it past mafia to do this to get pressure off. If it failed casey was a prime target anyway. A hail Mary would not surprise me
Again, I softed my role in my very first post this game
Checking in, meant to be here earlier but my sleep is fucked right now. I think it might have something to do with the weather, idk, but I just haven't been getting much sleep lately. Which is a problem for me in this game. Will catch up on my break.
Mag1cman wrote:
So, a dreamer. How does Pie justify that with your character?
Sorry for being late here. So, I'm Magnesium. Basically, in the brain I regulate GABA and NMDA signaling, decreasing arousal during sleep and leading to an effect known as "REM rebound". My role pm was very highly technical and a little complex, this is my best attempt at simplifying. Dreamer in my case works as it normally does with one minor difference, which I will avoid revealing for now
Hello everyone, I am back. Sorry for my absence, I forgot about this game. Still catching up on Day 1. Given that it's almost 2 AM where I am and my phone is almost dead, I'm not going to be online for long tonight, either, but I'll be free all of tomorrow. (it's Veterans Day after all.) But in the meantime, I do actually have results
At least one of these is scum.
And I did actually breadcrumb this role. I did it in my very first post, in fact.
Helz wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
Thoth wrote:
I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little
is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.
So... hmmm...
On the one hand, I want to just townread this because it's such a weird pull. I'm not familiar with Oganesson (it was only discovered in 2002 and in general any of the ones listed under the "unknown properties" section of the table is beyond my limited knowledge), but it's an odd part of the Table to grab from, especially if you're looking for a fake claim. There are probably 3 scum in this game so it's possible that one of them would just go for it rather than waiting to ask questions, but this doesn't seem obvious, nor does the whole "I discover my role 4 DPs in" aspect. It's weird that that's so delayed, but in a game with this many players, reaching DP4 is pretty likely.
On the other hand, I don't get this as an SOP claim. It's an unknown role, not an SOP one. Maybe this is just Thoth being extra cautious, or maybe this is him trying to give himself some towncred out the gate in hopes he'll avoid investigations. I don't like the decision, even if I kind of townread the claim itself.
So my challenge this game is that I can't use flavor at all which now seeing more setup details I am unhappy about. On the mechanics side though I think a claim is NAI given the scum team is given questions to verify. Also given that Mafia could ask about specific elements there could be some sort of anti-claim function in the mafia roles. Players may want to be careful about declaring what they are until we know more about what kinda PR madness we are dealing with.
Why do you give yourself these random challenges that don't improve your win odds? Whyyyyyyyy?
Magoroth wrote:
A bunch of thoughts:
a) Whiteflame did not say he was Town. On one hand, yeah kinda scummy? On the other hand if he was scum he would probably be more careful and say “yes”, maybe even woulda jumped at that word even more attentively than he did here.
b) He could be annoyed at the question because he doesn’t like rolling scum and rolled scum this game I guess?
I don't think him not explicitly saying "I am town" is scummy at all. Scum actually want other people to believe they're town more than town do.
Kohai wrote:
Casey_Risk wrote:
Thoth wrote:
I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.
I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town
Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas
I used to do this sort of thing all the time in games, pushing for soft claims from everyone. I don't really like it anymore. It helps scum figure out what other players are and the constraints it puts on scum claiming aren't generally as useful for the town as one might expect.
whiteflame wrote:
Thoth wrote:
I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little
is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.
So... hmmm...
On the one hand, I want to just townread this because it's such a weird pull. I'm not familiar with Oganesson (it was only discovered in 2002 and in general any of the ones listed under the "unknown properties" section of the table is beyond my limited knowledge), but it's an odd part of the Table to grab from, especially if you're looking for a fake claim. There are probably 3 scum in this game so it's possible that one of them would just go for it rather than waiting to ask questions, but this doesn't seem obvious, nor does the whole "I discover my role 4 DPs in" aspect. It's weird that that's so delayed, but in a game with this many players, reaching DP4 is pretty likely.
On the other hand, I don't get this as an SOP claim. It's an unknown role, not an SOP one. Maybe this is just Thoth being extra cautious, or maybe this is him trying to give himself some towncred out the gate in hopes he'll avoid investigations. I don't like the decision, even if I kind of townread the claim itself.
I agree with the first half of this. I think Thoth's claim reads as towny. It sticks out as risky to me, the sort of thing scum would generally be very reluctant to YOLO on DP1. I disagree with the second half; it's very possible that the role is actually negative utility for the town, and if he waited until he actually found out what his role was to reveal it, it would end up looking WAY worse for him. Again, see Atypical Mafia
Thoth wrote:
I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.
I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town
Thoth wrote:
I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little
is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.
Assuming this is the truth, this is probably the right move. I remember a Luna game (Atypical Mafia) where Owen was a hidden role that turned out to be a Miller. It didn't end well for him
Checking in, meant to be here earlier but my sleep is fucked right now. I think it might have something to do with the weather, idk, but I just haven't been getting much sleep lately. Which is a problem for me in this game. Will catch up on my break.
Actually, if it's not too much to ask, could you wait to start the game until Thursday? I'm going to be really busy tomorrow, but after that I should be free.
/in
Lunatic wrote:
What rule break specifically? Because I don’t see any. Mago told us we could do something and we did, then back tracked on it later.
I mean, people were already dancing all over the line about maintaining anonymity, which is why Mag begrudgingly allowed it. I agree that allowing it, then backtracking was a... Questionable mod decision, but after he gave people strikes in-thread for not engaging with anonymity, I think it was reasonable for me to expect people to try and follow it. Mikal largely did not (and I'm not just referring to accidentally posting on his main).
Lunatic wrote:
When you have an end of game with both town and mafia players saying the game should be shut down because of a players behavior there is obviously a big problem
I think that stems from Caine being salty he lost tbh magic and Casey seemed fine though
Kohai was definitely much more upset about it than Magic and I, but none of us on the scum team were happy about the rule breaks. I agree that they definitely aren't why we lost the game, but I still wish they wouldn't have happened at all.
