Helz

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 11:08 PM (post #76)

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 9:45 PM (post #73)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #71)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 3:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Hard dis-agree. And my personal opinions of cops is fuck cops. I think they are extremely Overpowered and take away from scum hunting. An ability that just tells you who scum is, is very broken. Any game of mine ever, if it has a cop, will have hard counters to it, like millers, godfathers, lawyers/framers etc. I do that on purpose to teach a lesson that investigations aren't everything. Seen many games lost because people blindly trusted results. Behavior is and always should be king.

I mean, what he is asking for is basically what existed. Just at a higher %

GF was there yes, but there was also another scum. 4 days is the reasonable target for the game end with 3 being fast and 5 being slow. So if we go math nerd-

Yeah a 9-player game is usually about 3-4 day phases max.

We are looking at an alignment cop hitting at an 11.11% chance every night.

We are looking at a tracker hitting at a 22.22% chance every night.

Now that is talking about targeting perfectly. Scum has an option to block one of the two potentials which is more difficult to quantify. For the Alignment cop it drops them to zero for one night. For Tracker the tracker themselves had to be targeted meaning it started at around a 12.5% chance N1, became a 16.66% chance N2 and would be a 25% chance D3 to offset that 22.22% chance of guilty by RNG player count.

The math also excludes factors such as piecing toether town roles based on taking hints or breadcrumbs from the day phase. This was a weird game where claims weren't prominent early as they usually sometimes are, and dp2 ended too quickly for anything to come out, but I've played as scum with whiteflame or magic a few times where we've been able to pretty much POE out every or most power roles by dp2. Not everyone is capable of that, I understand. And you were not really afforded that oppertunity this game, again.

People following what I am saying- This is why I say scum got lucky as fuck. BD makes things much more complicated but simply put you could assume a 4 day phase game with a ~25-30% chance every single day of scum getting hit just by invests. Then add in an additional 11.11% that scales per day for a doc to block a kill.

This game was fucking tough. Scum did not win by skill. They got lucky. I could build a model around it but it would take me more time to explain what things mean than to simply say odds were in towns favor on this one by miles.

Don't underplay yourself, I think it took some skill, and I think you ended up convincing both rex and wylted that you were town based on behavior alone!

Oh, the math is trash. I excluded soooo many things and scribbled that on a phone post. I could break down more logarithmic functions and how they intersect and how. But how many people would follow that thought process. Giving very basic %s just kept it simple and got the point across.

I agree having to come up with creative claims is great. What is not so great though is when you do not know what names people on this site use for roles or what specific way they are used. Then its less about just figuring out what a good claim could be and more about not stepping on some intellectual landmine. That is what just sucks imo. It feels soo bad trying to come up with a fake claim and not knowing what is even considered normal or reasonable in the community. This will be a growing pain for this place I will call out.

Ehh, To the point, a variable result alignment cop would not have changed much of anything. And the GF was not even slightly an OP change to the setup.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #71)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 3:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Hard dis-agree. And my personal opinions of cops is fuck cops. I think they are extremely Overpowered and take away from scum hunting. An ability that just tells you who scum is, is very broken. Any game of mine ever, if it has a cop, will have hard counters to it, like millers, godfathers, lawyers/framers etc. I do that on purpose to teach a lesson that investigations aren't everything. Seen many games lost because people blindly trusted results. Behavior is and always should be king.

I mean, what he is asking for is basically what existed. Just at a higher %

GF was there yes, but there was also another scum. 4 days is the reasonable target for the game end with 3 being fast and 5 being slow. So if we go math nerd-

We are looking at an alignment cop hitting at an 11.11% chance every night.

We are looking at a tracker hitting at a 22.22% chance every night.

Now that is talking about targeting perfectly. Scum has an option to block one of the two potentials which is more difficult to quantify. For the Alignment cop it drops them to zero for one night. For Tracker the tracker themselves had to be targeted meaning it started at around a 12.5% chance N1, became a 16.66% chance N2 and would be a 25% chance D3 to offset that 22.22% chance of guilty by RNG player count.

People following what I am saying- This is why I say scum got lucky as fuck. BD makes things much more complicated but simply put you could assume a 4 day phase game with a ~25-30% chance every single day of scum getting hit just by invests. Then add in an additional 11.11% that scales per day for a doc to block a kill.

This game was fucking tough. Scum did not win by skill. They got lucky. I could build a model around it but it would take me more time to explain what things mean than to simply say odds were in towns favor on this one by miles.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:13 PM (post #70)

But because claims were so impossible. The town was so overcrowded having absolutely everything just about every claim I could think of would be in question. That and dealing with a hard flavor split on top of it was rough.

This is crazy to me, because I don't think this game is really hard to find claims on, you had a list of tons of claims for example, even if you didn't pick within the 4 I gave you, you had tons of claim options here and knew the theme split which is a major advantage, town didn't even know the theme split, I just told them it was "easy to figure out" which could still mean a lot of things. That and I just didn't put a ton of effort into making justifications fit flavors, you can see from some of the flips, it would be incredibly easy to justify almost any claim. I don't even think claims were like a major focus this game.

And really, the scum team almost lost just because of claims.

I mean even with everyone pointing out the discrepancy with how PGO worked, it still seemed like most of the major talking points weren't about that, you even had wylted convinced you were town by the end of the day phase. I think your behavior easily over-rode mech analysis, because you played well.

I will admit that balance wise it probably swings to town a bit more in the grand scheme of overall power, though some of that was intended. Roles like roleblocker, and busdriver are just as capable of screwing with the town. They are also usually harder roles to buy as being scum, so I figured it afforded scum mislynch potential. And thoth was an actual mislynch with one of those roles, so I can safely say that worked in your favor. Regardless, you guys played very well and I definitely seen you guys face a pretty big challenge in LYLO, for a bit there I thought scum was cooked, but you guys pulled through. Good job!

Well for flavor I did not mean that was the issue. I am always sensitive to flavor being AI because I feel like its an entire different game from mafia. Instead of knowing the game of mafia you have to study some other thing like an actors movies to even get possibilities and even with an anti-claim you still roll the dice and have to match that flavor to a PR making claiming an entire situation.

I did ok this game. But what made it really hard was the amount of PR. Reguardless of what the town could have done and if we lucked out or not just consider the claims-

Could we claim any sort of invest? No. Detective + Alignment cop

Could we claim any sort of protective? No. Doctor + BD + Modified RB

Could we claim any sort of redirected role? No. BD and this site does not use OoO to sort situations with multiple redirects.

That basically left obscure utility roles, town killing in a 9p (which is very rare) or citizen claims in a game where almost everyone is a PR and Citizen is a scummy claim. I ended up claiming a negative utility of PGO because I felt any positive utility I thought would look awful. That and I did not even believe Banana's cit claim. Legit thought they were the real soldier which is why they pegged Wylted as town so hard.

I am really not mad about it. I really enjoyed the challenge and had a great time even if I got in my feelings about site meta almost screwing me. It was a super cool experience. But independent of what the town could do the scum were not left with very much room for role claims that would not create a 1v1 and be damning from flips which is why I say its one of the hardest games I have ever played.

Thank you for hosting and I apologize if I sound critical. My tism is showing and I really do appreciate the experience you gave me.

At the end of the day I felt it was one of the toughest games I have played. Not even because of the mech. We just lucked out there.

But because claims were so impossible. The town was so overcrowded having absolutely everything just about every claim I could think of would be in question. That and dealing with a hard flavor split on top of it was rough.

And really, the scum team almost lost just because of claims. Nothing play related at all. Thats the part that was frustrating to me. We made 1 sub optimal play in mech and did a great job keeping town off balance to the point that until the very last second every single town player was possible to lynch but town was so stuffed with PR we did not have any breathing room.

Really enjoyed the game. It was a super cool challenge that I did not expect to win. I think scum played decently but also got lucky as fuck to pull this one out.

Well, in FM games anyways. No clue how many times I have played it or played with it in other formats like ToS,SC2, Skype\discord, etc.

It works fine in those formats and is more normal although even in those I have seen more unlimited shot but active vets than flat compulsive

I could grab examples but it’s in the past. I have played a game on MU with a PGO who had to activate, I have hosted multiple games with that and I have probably played 10 or so around multiple sites like that. In all my games I think I have only seen 1 time where a compulsive PGO existed.

granted that’s my anacdotal experience but I personally see it as more balanced for the role. Instead of mass killing everyone always it adds a skill dynamic where the person can control how they are seen and bait a kill dealing with the conflicting wifom of invests and protectives.

I think compulsive PGO is kinda an awful role. It’s not fun to play or to play against; it requires no skill and just adds a weird dynamic into games that’s bad for balance. The best thing about it potentially existing is to be in a sem-open setup for wifom / fake claims

Originally Posted by Wryly on 11/11/2026 at 12:28 PM (post #36)

You played incredibly well and I hope you don't take this loss as any failure on your part. I was screaming for town to listen to you DP3 lol. Noticing Helz's TMI about whiteflame's DP1 post, correctly deducing the scum team despite wylted hammering me, how sound your arguments were DP3 -- mad props.

You guys do realize it was not possible for me to have TMI on WF N1. I still do not know how everyone did not glance at that post and recognize the PR perspective it comes from.

Yes, it did play into the kill target but I am still struggling to understand how everyone else (especially post flip) did not pick up that it was a PR soft the second they saw it.

I agree Banana played well. I felt bad wolfing against them. But I always feel bad wolfing. Personal problem.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 11/11/2026 at 12:19 PM (post #33)

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 12:03 PM (post #29)

Ya know, I am curious. How do you think the game woulda gone if we did not kill you?

You would have had a green check on me and I probably woulda claimed citizen. Do you think you could have sorted that mess?

Easily for the reasons I mentioned before. I would’ve 100% lynched Mago. Sorted you out later.

Kinda wish we coulda played that out. It would have been really fun. I would have been all about doing stupid shit like just no killing to break mech and going nuts in day chat. With Mag as my partner he probably woulda been down for whatever. We even talked about me bussing Mag for the giggles then winning D4 but I figured people were already upsetty spaghetti about the game timeline so I did not want to just troll people into playing an unneeded day/night cycle. Even if that shit woulda been epic and funny as fuck. Especially if it ended up with us loosing.

Oh, and fun fact killing you was a mistake. We literally thought you were the alignment cop and intended to keep you alive.

I posted the wrong name being busy with life and Mag confirmed without checking so you died. Kinda funny accident. We both laughed about it.

Ya know, I am curious. How do you think the game woulda gone if we did not kill you?

You would have had a green check on me and I probably woulda claimed citizen. Do you think you could have sorted that mess?

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 11/11/2026 at 11:55 AM (post #23)

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 11:51 AM (post #20)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 11/11/2026 at 11:43 AM (post #18)

This had me go into DP3 already incensed with him and suspicious of him. I started out wanting to generate as much activity as possible as we had literally nothing to work with since DP1 was dead and DP2 was cut way short. The way Wyted was acting after he had just royally fucked us over just wore on my nerves, because whoever went into DP4 would still have to find the last scum and us turbolynching someone DP3 would give them very little to work with. In the end I got pissed off and let my emotions get the better of me, but if Wylted had just actually worked with for even 2/3rds of the DP and helped to generate activity instead of endlessly whining about people playing the game I probably could have been convinced to go Mago. But when he voted me I figured he didn't actually believe that Helz and Mago were a scum team, which he had pushed all day, so it was kind of the final straw.

There was nothing original being posted for the last 24 hours. Even Banana recognized that. It was the same spam from Helz who was acting like he was doing something.

But once again, your only team was Wylted/Banana. Did you really scumread Banana?

Oh, I really did have a monster post. I was not joking. I basically did full ISO's on every living players with breakdowns of analysis and interactions between them. I just saw Wylted at L1 and shrugged. Figured I would read the DP before hammering to be fair but I 1000% really was working my ass off yesterday building an over complicated breakdown of every player and association potentials.

I mean it would’ve just rehashed everything you had already said. It doesn’t do much against pure mechanics. Wylted/Mago was never a team here. Period. Then it’s just analyzed which of Mago/Helz and Wryly/Wylted is the scum team. For the former, both are scummy. For the latter, one is extremely scummy, and the other is extremely townie. The townie was scum last game that I was in, and it’s night and day. Therefore, they are town by behavior and role cause Luna always includes Vanillas. Hence Mago/Helz are scum. Pretty easy

I disagree. Wryly was dead D2. You are crossing names there with Banana.

Also you are excluding the factor that Rex was basically only town read because of the miller claim. From what I was tracking they were not ever town read in the game for another factor than that miller claim until certain parts of D3 unfolded.

(Side note, I told Luna I am good with Mafia chat being released to everyone. Not that its anything special but figured I would throw it out there. A lot of sites release it by default)

Btw- Did everyone really not see WF's Post #2 as a soft PR claim? I pegged that shit the first second I read it and felt it was super obvious. Was another bit I struggled to understand how everyone else did not see it coming from a PR perspective. Even post flip.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 11/11/2026 at 11:43 AM (post #18)

This had me go into DP3 already incensed with him and suspicious of him. I started out wanting to generate as much activity as possible as we had literally nothing to work with since DP1 was dead and DP2 was cut way short. The way Wyted was acting after he had just royally fucked us over just wore on my nerves, because whoever went into DP4 would still have to find the last scum and us turbolynching someone DP3 would give them very little to work with. In the end I got pissed off and let my emotions get the better of me, but if Wylted had just actually worked with for even 2/3rds of the DP and helped to generate activity instead of endlessly whining about people playing the game I probably could have been convinced to go Mago. But when he voted me I figured he didn't actually believe that Helz and Mago were a scum team, which he had pushed all day, so it was kind of the final straw.

There was nothing original being posted for the last 24 hours. Even Banana recognized that. It was the same spam from Helz who was acting like he was doing something.

But once again, your only team was Wylted/Banana. Did you really scumread Banana?

Oh, I really did have a monster post. I was not joking. I basically did full ISO's on every living players with breakdowns of analysis and interactions between them. I just saw Wylted at L1 and shrugged. Figured I would read the DP before hammering to be fair but I 1000% really was working my ass off yesterday building an over complicated breakdown of every player and association potentials.

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 11/11/2026 at 11:38 AM (post #16)

My understanding of my role was that I could tell you before the hammer falls to steal the DP and the DP would end in a no-lynch. I don't see how that could win us the game as I couldn't use it after they hammered, and so out them them after they vote, and if I used it before we would simply no lynch, it was 2:3, all our protectives were dead, they would kill one of us, and then we would be at parity and they would win. I was planning on possibly using in DP2 for role confirmation but Wylted decided to randomly lynch our doctor for no fucking reason.

This had me go into DP3 already incensed with him and suspicious of him. I started out wanting to generate as much activity as possible as we had literally nothing to work with since DP1 was dead and DP2 was cut way short. The way Wyted was acting after he had just royally fucked us over just wore on my nerves, because whoever went into DP4 would still have to find the last scum and us turbolynching someone DP3 would give them very little to work with. In the end I got pissed off and let my emotions get the better of me, but if Wylted had just actually worked with for even 2/3rds of the DP and helped to generate activity instead of endlessly whining about people playing the game I probably could have been convinced to go Mago. But when he voted me I figured he didn't actually believe that Helz and Mago were a scum team, which he had pushed all day, so it was kind of the final straw.

Yeah, My take was that I was pretty much town read by everyone by my behavior yet my claim was so out of line with the site meta I was a huge problem. Honestly if everyone did not look so bad this game I woulda died instantly for that.

But I would beg people to consider this when hosting- That really fucking sucks. Its a homefield advantage to the people who only play here and nobody joining the site will know whats normal. It makes a situation where you can just loose for something that has nothing to do with how well you play. And whats the solution? Crawl through 50 past games to get a feel of the experience long term players had?

If this site is gona grow I would highly encourage breaking the meta and/or using more semi-open formats disclosing potential roles. The fact every time I need to fake claim I do not even know what names you guys use and I know that can get me killed is just uncomfortable and not fun.

That was probably one of the toughest games I have played.

Funny bits- Thoths initial plan of mass claim would have utterly destroyed the mafia. The flavor claim was tough to deal with and the Anti-claim was not that useful. Then the town was super packed with TPR to where other claims would hardly fit. And I do not know the sites meta which almost fucked me pretty good

(Really not happy about that still) I may start avoiding games that are not semi-open with listed possible roles. No offence but the meta of this site is very different than the rest of the world and a substantial amount of people seem to have only played here. The fact players think a PGO is always compulsive made me laugh. Its super rarely compulsive outside of this place. Kinda gives this weird 'homefield' advantage when newer players can not possibly know about obscure site meta without digging.

Wylted was right although really I feel like their D3 behavior and that D2 hammer crippled their chances. If they had argued their case differently I think we would have lost. And to be fair while we played ok, I was seriously trying D3 and really irritated about the site meta on roles, we also got super lucky. Detective + Sheriff + Doc + Bus Driver was gnarly. We got lucky on the mech side of things and still almost lost.

I feel like town played very well outside of not running a counter train until LYLO and slamming D2 super fast. Created a D3 where 2 people had hardly even given reads.

Gona throw this out there for giggles. This is what we were looking at to figure just flavor claims.

There is an updated version but ehh, I am lazy and it does not matter. Point being I was paranoid enough about the claims to crawl through every fucking Jim Carrey movie and figure out what would be viable to claim with. Figured that may amuse some people.

VTL: wylted

Yeah, I just cant see past the slip on the name of your role. That is not a mistake town makes. And bananas behavior hard arguing to speed hammer while I am gone looks pretty bad.

50/50 between Mag and Wylted. Ima roll the dice here. If I am wrong then GG. If I am right I am still not certain about Banana. They look pretty good in some ways but their certainty on Wylted is just so out of place to me. And their claim as a cit in a game with every else having roles? I just dono there. I do not want to default to them, all potentials should be considered and Mag looks bad to me. But their thread interaction screams unaligned.

We will see what the night brings. Scum can roll the dice to kill me and risk dying.

Well if nothing else I should basically be confirmed town now. Not like its possible for me to be scum with both Wylted and Mag.

Not liking banana trying to shove a hammer specifically while I am not in the thread. Seeing the same attitude Wylted is pushing of trying to get a hammer fast which makes me feel like they are coordinated.

Catching up. I guess I have to make a decision.

Thank you for your honesty. I am fine with moving things forward without me saying everything even if its the challenge I made for myself this game.

Rex and I need to get on the same page and make a vote. I figure thats what will solve the days elimination. I had to handle something just now but I will move things forward as I can. I do not want to place any vote before interacting with Rex at the very least.

And quite honestly, if everyone is so bothered about long day cycles its probably something that should be solved prior to starting a game. Not during a game and threatening to destroy the game if things do not happen in their timeline.

Originally Posted by Banana on 11/11/2026 at 1:08 AM (post #320)

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/10/2026 at 11:16 PM (post #319)

The mechanical focus on voting in the Lylo is good. I think the pre-flip association hunting focus is hurting independent reads.

D1 was dogshit. I think I literally had 2 or 3 posts and gave more than most players in the game. We failed to break RVS and I was part of that problem. I just did not have the time. We also failed to make a counter train.

D2 was also dogshit but because Wylted decided to fast hammer before conversation could even be had. There was hardly even a train. We had a pressure vote and they just shut out conversation with a fast hammer before the player could even claim. That looks scummy in itself but put us in a situation where we basically are having a D3 with just about a D1 level of knowledge. And yet again there is pressure to just shut up and vote? No. Not just no but fuck no.

Pairings and mech are useful. We could really use more individual reads though. Explanations of positions and reads. If people thought I was posting walls before wait until I drop what I have been working on. Lol.

But yeah, I think rushing the day for a vote is just a bad idea. And I think we should all focus more on basic reads and hunting than hypotheticals. If I was scum right now I would not just be positioning for todays kill but setting up for the next days kill demanding 2 people are paired to lock in the win and argue tomorrow "Well this person flipped whatever so that other person must be the scum"

with all due respect, if u r going to be posting read walls i think the only person who may be affected by them is potentially rex. im basically skimming most of what u write, unless its in regards to u convincing me u r more town than rex. thats the only behavior that matters to me. i have basically written of mago as scum and wylted as town, no read on them will impact me.

Fair. And I appreciate the honesty there.

I will just say this as simply as I can. There are things you do to convince others and be seen doing things and there are things you just do for yourself to say "I did everything I could"

I never regret the games I lost that I put it all out there. Where I worked hard and did everything I could. I very much regret when I play a game and just half ass it. The last game I got a win and I still regret having it knowing how much more I could have done.

Even if everything I say nobody listens to I signed for this game and I will damn well play it. Its a principle thing independent of the impact I have with what I do and say that matters to me. Same as the challenges I give myself.

I do secretly have the hope of changing the meta of this site into something that can grow but thats a separate ambition I am poorly following through on.

The mechanical focus on voting in the Lylo is good. I think the pre-flip association hunting focus is hurting independent reads.

D1 was dogshit. I think I literally had 2 or 3 posts and gave more than most players in the game. We failed to break RVS and I was part of that problem. I just did not have the time. We also failed to make a counter train.

D2 was also dogshit but because Wylted decided to fast hammer before conversation could even be had. There was hardly even a train. We had a pressure vote and they just shut out conversation with a fast hammer before the player could even claim. That looks scummy in itself but put us in a situation where we basically are having a D3 with just about a D1 level of knowledge. And yet again there is pressure to just shut up and vote? No. Not just no but fuck no.

Pairings and mech are useful. We could really use more individual reads though. Explanations of positions and reads. If people thought I was posting walls before wait until I drop what I have been working on. Lol.

But yeah, I think rushing the day for a vote is just a bad idea. And I think we should all focus more on basic reads and hunting than hypotheticals. If I was scum right now I would not just be positioning for todays kill but setting up for the next days kill demanding 2 people are paired to lock in the win and argue tomorrow "Well this person flipped whatever so that other person must be the scum"

Im gona cut back to working on the other thing I am doing. But I will simply put my entire view of mafia like this-

As town you have 2 things-

1- Be transparent and allow yourself to be read. Explain your positions clearly so others can solve you

2- Read others well and figure them out. While this is more difficult and we all fuck it up gotta try

As scum you have to do 1 thing-

Survive and kill the town.

Whats making this game so difficult for me is Town #1 is just not happening much. People voice a view and speak it as a hard take and the reasoning is just not there. Town #2 is also not being done much. People disagree with some of my takes and others while we are not actually getting productive explanation for things and its ending with people staring at etchother like cats. I can explain any view I have in extreme depth but I can not even do that if people just shift around reads without reasoning and do not ask for the clarification of what I was thinking to even try to read me.

I can not read others when I ask over and over how they reached a conclusion and I am left with so little. Literally everyone looks scummy to me and its just impossible for everyone to be scum. Its just a lot. Slapping in some weird Mafia drama with emotional demands to act quickly for no reason and it just makes a messy game. I will drop more thoughts when I am done but I am interested in hearing more from Rex and would like to see more from Mag.

I agree with your take that Mag vs Wylted is likely TvW. Its just that everything reading the thread for me makes me feel they are both scum while their interactions do not seem like a bus. If their ATE arguments in the thread today are theater they are doing some of the best puppet show I have seen. Felt like there was real heat in their words and I also feel like the depth of play for what Wylted has done does not match what I think they would do as a player.

They just both look so fucking scummy. Lol. Mag lurking then saying its intentional while fumbling a fake claim and having minimal interaction with the thread justifying it by saying they want to be the last town standing. I have personally not seen them offset their entire play for a role before which makes me call that out. I get everyones ignoring my statement there but its substantial in my head and I have known them for something like 10 years.

Then Wylted just looks equally bad. The awful takes through the game, the fast hammer D2 followed by the weird pressure to act fast today. The really weird certainty on reads they either can not or will not explain. Forgetting their own role name. They just look awful to me.

Positionally in the hypothetical WvW to pivot suspicion onto me with a peek of Pie checking me is a weak play to begin with when they could do more. Anti-confrontational? Sure. Its safe. But then they scream at everyone in the chat to hammer right now and even threaten to destroy the game if they do not have it happen right now. That went from looking scummy to me just being confused. Its such an illogical move as any alignment that it just seems like they got into the wine too hard or something. I struggle to make any sense from that.

I think Rex poked at it but I agree. You + Mag makes little sense. While you could be bussing there honestly you seem less likely to be the type to make such a play. You are passive and analytical although I do not think I have seen your scum play yet. What gets me about you is both you and Wylted mutually seem to have super strong town reads that I just have not seen the logic on.

I get that you do not see exactly what I am looking at on issues but I also am not seeing clear understanding on others positions. Most of them seem built on "Well I have this other assumption so given that this other thing must be true" which is just rough. This is exactly what you are describing with Wylted. You do not seem to town read them so much as see a position where you think they must be town. It makes it really tough to read people when everyone is reading around the people as opposed to reading the person themselves for me.

Originally Posted by wylted on 11/10/2026 at 10:04 PM (post #308)

the case on mag is that he literally isn't hammered yet. he would be dead if he was town as banana is town from any sane person's pov. he lied about his role and back pedaled. if people are allowed to lie about roles at MYLO than I guess e just have to let scum win every game because apparently catching them in lies isn't good enough.

you need the scum team to specifically be me and banana to justify not lynching mago and your vote is literally not on either of us.

Well its LYLO so yes. My vote will go on nobody until I am sure that is my end of day vote. Mags shift on his claim did look bad to me. But I have some thoughts on that.

A S! Mag would probably not make that mistake. They would walk into the day expecting to claim and have a pre-made claim. A T! Mag flys by the seat of their pants and does crazy bullshit that pops into their head. I see this as less of a concern.

The greater concern I have is that I do not see that same pattern in their other interactions. They have not been recklessly pushing all over the place this game and their justification that they wanted to lurk to be the last town is trash imo. That does not make sense to me.

But on that issue yeah, I see that but I also see it as a much smaller issue than you forgetting your role while the thing I really see as a problem you do not seem to take issue with.

Is there any other point you can make about Mag than that one issue? I have seen a few problems personally but I am much more interested in how you have this absolute certainty that they are scum. Or why you and Banana town read etchother so hard with reasoning I do not understand.

Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 10:02 PM (post #307)

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/10/2026 at 7:15 PM (post #277)

Why do you take their role claim for granted? It looks overcrowded for PR's with a flipped Doc+BD+Alignment Cop+RB before even considering the claims.

two investigations isnt absurd for games here, more than 2 i would prolly start raising my eyebrows. their is a lot of scum roles on the town side it seems as well. but anyways im not really taking his role for granted, its more his slot and the way things happened this dp hes pretty lock town for me.

Sure they could have made a 'different fake claim' but we could WIFOM that all day. Going direct 1v1 would be open confrontation and it does not seem like Wylted handles that well. Any thoughts on them forgetting their own role name and openly admitting they do not consider the other role they claimed to do the same thing they do? Seems like something that you would not forget. Would be a smudge below forgetting your alignment.

listen, u wont convince me that wylted is anything other than town. i dont think picking apart his mistakenly calling the role the wrong name is a good look either. u seem to be nit picking wierd things, just like u r nit picking me for incorrectly remembering by sussing u more than he did. u spend an unnecccesary amount of time picking at things like this, and really don't spend a lot of time looking into ppl like rex and mago, i think that is interesting. u r trying to turn this into a me and wylted vs everyone else scenario. thats the main reason i have doubts about u. admittedly rex doesnt look good either, but u convincing me rex is scum is ur only real play here, because i have thrown my lot in with wylted. i know i am town, and i voted with wylted so if mago is town he would have been quick hammered. there is no reason for that not to be the case. i am not buying into any elaborate bus theories between wylted and you or wylted and mago. the only option for scum pairing in my eyes is mago/you mago/rex. thats it. u would have a better use of time trying to convince me that rex is the scum partner, otherwise u r wasting ur breath.

or u can try and convince rex that the scum team is me/wylted, and if u go that route, which is probably ur best route if ur scum, i will probably be sold that u r scum in that scenario.

Do you even feel my poke that you were wrong about Pie suspecting me is even wrong? How is that unreasonable?

The only reason I had to keep shoving it was that nobody would look at it. Its like it takes an act of congress to get this community to look back at an ISO. Coulda been a small quick point and turned into an entire thing but do you even think its an invalid point?

Do you even think my point on Wylted is invalid? It is weird to claim a role then not remember the role you claimed as town. And you are treating them as lock town even as they throw a fit demanding everyone act right now or else they will destroy the game.

Im glad you openly acknowledge you are unwilling to shift a position. Saves time even if I think its unreasonable. But the same as I do in debates while I understand you are not willing to change your opinion I am open to changing mine. Can you explain to me why you are so committed to your town read of them? I very much would like to hear your thoughts on the subject to get a better understanding of both you and them.

And I am not ignoring other slots. I just have not posted my thoughts on them yet and again- have an entire life and another 48 hours to work with. I budget my time in life. Not for the optimal thing for the obscure online video game I play but instead for my actual real life obligations. This game gets what it gets and I hold myself to the game timer. That is what it means to Adult.

I still think there is just something you do not want me to find which makes me want to search more.

How about instead of screaming at me to vote Mag right now you make a consolidated case as to why Mag is scum? You have no idea what I am working on right now. There is a reason I pop in with massive wall dumps of detailed info.

I will not be bullied into just doing what you want by you threatening to destroy the game if you do not get your way. Thats gross.

Feel free to make a stronger case against Mag if you want my vote there. As of right now I favor voting you over Mag and you are not doing anything to change that.

You still have never explained what your rush is. What is the huge hurry? We have time. What the fuck even is the problem with us using it for you to act this way?

Look. Some of us have lives and obligations. I like turbos. I have played hundreds. Its cool to blast through a game.

I also sign up for long games so I do not need to stress on how I use my time. I have played games with 2 week day cycles before. But I acknowledge what I signed up for and that everyone else probably has a reason they agreed to the thing they signed up for.

Not game related but I do not appreciate you threatening to destroy a game if people do not just do what you want. That is not cool. I also do not appreciate the repeated disrespect you are showing me on a personal level. That is not cool.

Its a game. Calm down and let me play how I want to play. Your behavior right now is inappropriate in multiple ways.

Originally Posted by wylted on 11/10/2026 at 9:41 PM (post #297)

While I am confident you are scum I need to draw a harder conclusion on Mag.

then vote me jack ass.

if you know who is scum you eliminate them. it's mafia 101

if you don't already know magos alignment then please for the love of God do not weaken the genetic pool be reproducing.

Ok. Maybe lay off the alcohol and go drink water. Im good with just not speaking to you for a bit right now.