ILikePie5

Hola me llamo Leo Dooley

I do, they’re the best. I’m just asking cause you’re losing business and I want to see you succeed

Why’s your ice cream machine always broken

Yeah ngl I had like 0 idea how to approach this game from a lone wolf perspective. I genuinely thought you were town fmpov. No clue who was scum and had no actions at all to find clues

Ya, we were hoping you would signal to us or something some how, but otherwise acting townie was your best move

Sorry for darting out (if you even knew), next week is swarmed with work.

Nah it was honestly a good thing. I wish you hadn’t replaced. We would’ve lynched Earth and been done with it. WF should’ve always been scum to you if you chose to claim Absorber lol

I think it’s just a Mikal thing

Giving Earth 2 abilities based on OoT items and making him the OG Zelda was also kind of a dick move Mikal.

100% agree lol. I was baffled when I saw that even knowing that he was town

I knew it was a mistake to submit it before it was due. But I also thought I kinda suck at that game, so someone like Magic would top it with ease.

I was not predicting 95K tho. How long did that take you?

What was the item anyways?

For scum it was a redirector and for town a watcher

Also, Ragnar is insane for getting to 95K on that game. It took me 3.5 hours of nonstop playing to get to 110K. And I only submitted at the last second to ensure I’d win

btw you could've redirected someone into Casey's PGO for an extra NK. Some mods make Redirectors immune to the roles they redirect others to... Mikal is one such mod.

Yes, we could’ve. We didn’t see that though at the time cause both Casey and I were legitimately busy af with work.

Scum had many ways to get multiple NKs... in a 3v8.

We had a Lone Wolf who we didn’t even know till DP4 when Supa claimed my character. If we had killed him any of the previous NPs, with POE it would’ve been an autoloss

And as for the chats, all it takes is for one mafioso to gain someone's trust.

This was scumsided.

If you 3 weren’t connected, scum would’ve won that game easily hands down. After RT/Vader we only had one path to victory and that was convincing REF to run into Casey’s bomb. Literally one. Everything else had us losing the game as I told Mikal

Scum had many ways to get multiple NKs... in a 3v8.

We had a Lone Wolf who we didn’t even know till DP4 when Supa claimed my character. If we had killed him any of the previous NPs, with POE it would’ve been an autoloss

And as for the chats, all it takes is for one mafioso to gain someone's trust.

This was scumsided.

If you 3 weren’t connected, scum would’ve won that game easily hands down. After RT/Vader we only had one path to victory and that was convincing REF to run into Casey’s bomb. Literally one. Everything else had us losing the game as I told Mikal

You know I’m going to disagree with you on this game being scum sided. This was townsided because of the chat mechanic. Scum thrive on town not being able to coordinate their night actions without scum knowing.

Alright, I’m not even entertaining Vader/RT being town anymore. This is just laughable.

Realistically, he’s probably the TP cause I would be shocked if his scum partners allowed him to say this, meaning there are likely still 2 scum left.

With that being said. Who do you all think that pairing is and why

So with Ragnar’s full claim on the table, there are now three claimed JOATs and a confirmed one. At least one of us has to be telling the truth, and based on everything I know about both of them, they are.

Here’s the problem I’m having. Let’s say, I believe you’re town. That means you inherited a JOAT from Lunatic. Wonderful. Then you learned Ragnar’s role. A second JOAT. How were you not immediately sus of this knowing what you. Fine, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Then you learned that Mharman is ALSO a JOAT. That should’ve sent sirens in your head. And yet what you’re telling is that you believed it and yall went kumbaya and planned night actions together? I’m sorry but that’s a very very tough pill for me to swallow

Ragnar had no end of opportunities to kill Mharman if he chose. He knew exactly who Mharman would use his Doc on (him), and still the NK did not go through. Mharman was clearly a priority target for the NK, so he was likely right to protect himself. And as Ragnar surmised, I used my own protective role at the same time. It’s up to you whether you buy that story, but either Ragnar and I are both town or we’re both scum and this very elaborate story of NP2 actions is just made up entirely. Your choice on that front. 

This is all WIFOM, I’m basing my reads off of cold hard facts. There are now 3 claimed JOATs. I just don’t buy that. And I don’t buy that a Town WF would townread those claims from Mharman and Ragnar.

And speaking of other JOATs, one thing I haven’t mentioned yet is that Healer role Mharman had. He chose to use it NP3 on Rex, I imagine in part because he figured he’d be the target, but also because he knew town wasn’t using a role that would inflict an injury. The only one that could have? Earth’s PGO, which injures prior to killing. Maybe scum have access to a role that does something similar, but it’s striking that they haven’t employed it yet. Mharman’s role confirms the existence of some role that injures, and Earth’s PGO is the only one on the table.

And scum Earth would know that. Master Sword as PGO makes zero sense. Something that injures? Definitely. But not PGO. And Lens of Truth makes absolutely zero sense with a Tracker. The claim is atrocious cause of the soft claim and role claim.

Seriously, where is Pie? In any other game he would have detailed reads out and yet nothing.

I was busy with work. This time of the year is the worst for anyone on FP&A with a normal FY. But this is super ironic coming from you. I’ve posted my reads multiple times throughout the DPs. How many times have you done it? Zero.

If I’m in your POE at this point, then you should be mistrusting everything coming from my connections, which also means that you’re currently sussing, at minimum, Vader, Ragnar, Earth and me. And if you think I’m partnering with anyone but Ragnar, then you’d have to somehow believe I gaslit him into a strategy that prevented the NK NP2.

Like I said, I sus everyone at this point except REF. Some I obviously sus more than others

Also, since when are we at MYLO/LYLO? There are 7 players left. Wouldn’t that mean we’re assuming either three scum or two scum with a TP that would choose to win with scum?

I was always running under the assumption that there could be 2 scum and a TP who could joint win. Thats been the case since DP1

Well, this is my real claim. Do you think I am faking my claim, and if so, is it my character or role claim, or both?

I don’t know, you tell me. I’ve already explained that Lens of Truth doesn’t make much sense for a Tracker. Master Sword definitely doesn’t make much sense for a PGO.

Secondly WF already touched on this, but I can hardly be considered a JOAT and there are already like 4 JOATs in play.

But you’re townreading someone who says they’re now a JOAT, when there’s already a JOAT that’s dead and is town (Mharman). Let’s say you’re not a JOAT, because you only have 2 abilities. Fine. That means there are still 2 JOATs. And you’re choosing to believe that?

You can say I am CCing Rex, but I'm town, so maybe Mikal just wanted an extra tracker *shrug*.

And he wanted 2 JOATs in the game on top of that. Why not just give everyone a Vig at point right? You have to draw a line at some point.

WF is a much worse mafia player than he is as town,

That is not true at all. And your post in DP1 even said that lol

and I think if WF has endured 4 DPs of scrutiny and multiple Mason PMs, hes town. I masoned he because I wanted a PM with him.

Not because you townread you?

My point was that there are multiple pseudo-CCs on the table. In fact, there’s a lot of odd with the roles that are out there, but I happen to know that several of them are real based on the flips and the specific info I have access to. I know there are numerous pseudo-CCs in play and, as I’ll get to in a bit, multiple town JOATs as well. That set me off when I learned of it, too, so I get why it would have you on edge, but if every individual pseudo-CC and instance of a JOAT is going to do that, then you are going to have way too many people to sus. At this point, that list would include at least four of the remaining players. But there’s a difference between having some pseudo-CCs where a single role in a JOAT aligns with another in a different JOAT and having a multi-use role be fill a very similar niche to multiple JOAT roles.

I don’t think you’re understanding my argument. You are also in my POE. I don’t buy there being multiple JOATs, and I don’t buy there being multiple Trackers. The only factual pieces of info I have are:

1) You are claiming Luna was a JOAT when we have a confirmed JOAT in the form of Mharman.

2) REF is a Tracker and Earth is also claiming he’s a Tracker.

3) You are in a P-CC with Casey

4) You are in a P-CC with Vader

5) We are in MYLO/LYLO

I don’t understand, what’s convenient here? That I had a townread on someone for other reasons than one element of their claim?

Yes actually. A Mafia specific Roleblock and Asceticizer would be a hard pill for me to swallow. Now behavior is a different issue, but mafia specific Roleblocker would be sending massive alarm bells in my head.

And yes, since David full claimed what he did, I’ll out my role:

I’m Mario. I am a JOAT. My roles are:

Super Mushroom: essentially an extra life, functions like a BP with me surviving an NK (used NP2).

Power Star: immune to night actions that are not the NK (still have this).

Fire Flower: this is the mafia-specific RB.

I didn’t want to reveal my hand last DP. I’ve been clear in this one that I know the reason. I was straight with both Ragnar and Mharman about it.

And one of them is dead while the other one could be your partner since he’s all buddy buddy with you.

Let’s tackle this now. If you think I’ve simultaneously manipulated at least four people (possibly five if you buy that no one who has claimed to Mason me is my scum partner) in different chats, I’m deeply flattered. That would be my best game of all time. If you think I would then try, with a tremendous amount of insight into every other player, to claim this specific role with more pseudo-CCs and a JOAT flipped already, that would certainly be a choice. Both would obviously be sussed, and it’s much harder to draw attention to other instances of them when I’m engaging in them myself. And the only person who could realistically be my scum partner would be Ragnar at this point, who I have openly stated I had plans with during the previous two NPs, essentially tying us together.

This entire argument is WIFOM. Yes Ragnar could be your partner, but so could Earth. So could Vader. If you’re town, what reason do you have to townread Ragnar? For claiming a role can easily be disproven? Casey did the same thing as well. You can’t go both ways.

If you want to believe all of that is true, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s a mix of some incredible behavioral play across multiple Mason chats and some really strange choices that draw attention to me and the person you’d have to think is my partner for no reason.

It’s MYLO/LYLO, this doesn’t mean anything. And I know full well that you’re capable of this much manipulation. You’re probably the only one left who can do it

Full claim

1x absorber. The justification is that in the game Space Invaders I'm always under attack from alien misses and have temporary shields that can absorb some shots before collapsing. 

This shot was used on NP2 on Pie. 

Okay, you need to explain how this works. I did some research and normally, this is a passive role based on MafiaScum and MafiaUniverse. Are you saying it’s an active role? And if so how does it work?

Like you select a person’s role to absorb in the night? And you chose me? Why me? Why not Luna who was dead so you can see what their role is. I get that Supa made the decision, but if there’s anything that you know, you need to say it ASAP.

Even if you think my tracker role is a soft CC, my PGO isn't and Mharman's role directly confirms mine.

So you’re saying you’re a JOAT too? Mharman is a confirmed JOAT. Whiteflame is basically saying that Luna was a JOAT as well. I don’t see how you buy that. If you’re telling the truth, then WF should be scum from your POV along with Ragnar probably at a minimum.

Also, you still haven’t answered my question about why you townread WF.

I'll admit my claim is sketchy, but chew Mikal out for bastard modding. I have no idea why he didn't just make me OoT. Mikal said I am "Zelda as a whole", but it seems like I am the only person who is like that. My PM even has the release year in it, so what the fuck Mikal.

It’s not bastard modding if the claim is just a fake claim.

I'll admit my claim is sketchy, but chew Mikal out for bastard modding. I have no idea why he didn't just make me OoT. Mikal said I am "Zelda as a whole", but it seems like I am the only person who is like that. My PM even has the release year in it, so what the fuck Mikal.

It’s not bastard modding if the claim is just a fake claim.

Doesn’t explain how he knew Rex’s NP1 night action and visited him the following night, by Rex’s own confirmation. I understand that the claim itself isn’t accurate to this specific game, and I was sussing him myself for his claim, but he’s also hardly alone in having a pseudo-CC on the table.

If he’s scum, then there are probably ways he can know. I acknowledge he’s in a pseudo-CC, but he’s in a pseudo-CC with the most townie player for me in REF. Between you and Casey there’s a pseudo-CC and between you and Vader there’s a pseudo-CC based on everything you’ve said.

I had enough basis for townreading him onto that point. The Mario claim and behavior were the biggest parts of that - played with him several times as scum and I saw no indication of anything after he recruited me. The claim of the RB was the only thing that made me second-guess what was still one of my stronger townreads at the time.

Fair enough, but it’s still awfully convenient, especially combined with everything you’ve said.

I absorbed his roles, yes. I had access to only those roles he had not used, so the RB was off the table by the time I got it.

Is there a reason you haven’t fully stated what else you got? Because at that point, you’re effectively claiming that Luna had a JOAT, and so you’re a JOAT, but Mharman is a flipped JOAT.

I do know why he’s flipless: my role. I said I was surprised by it because the flipless aspect wasn’t described in my PM. I asked Mikal after the fact and it was confirmed that my role was responsible.

So why’d you say earlier that you didn’t know why he was flipless?

I don’t know why you’re talking about believing Mharman’s role. We have his flip. He had a 1X Doc, plus a 1X Healer, though we still don’t know what that applies to. And, again, that’s pseudo-CC on two different fronts: protective and role blocking. Unless you believe both Ragnar and I are faking our roles, both apply to Casey’s claim.

I meant that there’s a pseudo-CC between Casey and Mharman, but Mharman’s was only 1x and Casey’s had the negative utility attached to it as well. Ragnar’s isn’t a P-CC against Casey imo. But you are right that you’re both ‘aligned’ in that sense.

I’ve already stated why in large part in my reasons for townreading Ragnar, which are all reasons for me to back his view. Aspects of Casey’s story don’t line up with what I’m hearing from Ragnar either, though I’ll have to come back to that later. I would like to understand why you’re townreading Casey.

I genuinely wasn’t townreading her going into today, she was in my POE, but everything that’s come out against her seems too good to be true. Not to mention it relies a massive part on if I believe you or not, which I frankly don’t at the moment.

Dude REF is confirmed. He’s the only investigative role. You need to unvote him and actually read. You got lynched with your other slot cause you were scummy af

Ragnar: He was made pretty thoroughly aware of plans that Mharman and I put together to manage the two back-to-back NPs, placing him or his partner in a uniquely advantaged position to execute an NK with little effort. Considering that could have put us at MYLO, I don’t think he’d pass that up. Aside from that, the Lightning Rod is a very odd choice for scum, since it’s easily disprovable based on literally anything hitting his target and not him.

So you told Ragnar the entire plan? Who knew the plan in it’s entirety?

Rex - those results track well with what I know of both Mharman’s night actions and Earth’s. There’s an outside chance that he has scum roles that he could use for Tracking, but this amount and this accurately stated doesn’t make much sense from a scum perspective.

REF is my top townie. Been that way for a while now. Plus he’s the only investigative role basically. His role is basically a CC of Earth’s, so right now my top scumread is Earth. I’ll expand more on that below.

Earth - similar reasons to Rex, though a one-time use just isn’t as foolproof. Rex confirmed what he did as well. The pseudo-CC bothers me, but not enough to shift my read substantially.

Here’s the issue I have with Earth. He soft claimed 1980s for his character. The Legend of Zelda 1986 is the only one that fits that. In that game though, there is no Lens of Truth or Master Sword. The link between Lens of Truth and Tracker doesn’t make sense nor does Master Sword and PGO. I’ve played OoT, MM, and WW. The claim doesn’t add up at all.

Pie - role confirmed, largely townread behaviorally, and Rex getting a result on him consistent with his. Pie’s been at an interesting crossroads with him being the sole contact at night with Rex, and I have little reason to disbelieve him, but it’s the least confirmation of anyone I’ve already listed.

Can confirm that I’m town.

Vader - if we’re being honest, I don’t think Vader or Casey is more scummy. They equally stand out. I’ll just claim for him since Vader’s taking so long: he claimed Space Invaders and 1X Absorber. So many issues:

That’s definitely an odd claim.

it’s a pseudo-CC of my role

When did you find out his role?

he didn’t seem to understand how the role worked when I questioned him, saying he could be given a Vig shot, which did not make sense. The role absorbs non-killing roles used on it.

Vader getting Space Invaders? Really?

the justification is entirely unclear. He mentioned something about a Fragment Shield generator and, despite my best efforts, I haven’t found any information on what that is let alone how it works. Asked two days ago, haven’t heard anything since.

Ya not much we can do until he comes back

Casey - Casey’s main problem is just how many pseudo-CCs there are, and here’s where I’ll out a bit of information: when I absorbed Luna, he had already used an RB role, one that would solely have worked on scum

Wait you absorbed Luna and he has a Roleblocker that exclusively worked on Mafia? That’s really really unusual. How did you townread Lunatic off of that?

(yes, I’m aware that Ragnar is also a pseudo-CC on that). That plus the existence of a Doctor (Mharman’s role) and a protective role from Luna (I’ll provide specifics later) means that Casey’s Alien role is pseudo-CC’d twice, both as an RB and as a protective role.

So Luna also had a protective role in addition to a roleblocker that only worked on scum? And you absorbed these roles. And you don’t know why Luna’s role is flipless? I’m having a heard time believing that. It all sounds like awfully convenient evidence against Casey. The only thing I can believe is that Mharman had a 1x Doctor. Which is yes a pseudo-CC of Casey’s role, but Earth also has that with REF.

I also haven’t liked either of their behaviors. I have reason to back Ragnar’s view of events between him and Casey, and Vader just vanished after some pretty weak attention to the DP and some defense of Casey, which stood out to me.

What reason do you have to back Ragnar’s view of events?

I discussed this with WF, but there were a few candidates, but I settled on Rex because I still didn't get a good feel on him and my other choices were you (not a good pick for fairly obvious reasons) and casey. Its possible WF is fooling me, but I townread him, and Mhar was a gut town read for me.

Okay, here’s a question for you: why do you townread WF?

Why did you choose to see what REF did?

Knowing what you know right now, what’s the order of most scum to least scum for you? Rank each person from 1-7.

I am Legend of Zelda. Apparently I am Zelda as a whole because my two actions are "Lens of Truth" and "Master Sword" and neither of those are in the orginal Zelda. Lens of Truth allows me to Track who someone visited the previous night and Master Sword is a PGO I can invoke and any and all who visit me get wounded and die the next night. NP2, I targeted Rex and saw that he visited Pie NP1. I have yet to use my PGO.

Hmm, that’s a borderline CC of REF’s claim. The PGO is also interesting. What’s the reason you didn’t use it NP1 or NP3?

His being flipless is not at all associated with his role, I can confirm that. As for why my role removes the flip, I couldn’t say, but that’s what it did. I’ll take it since it means scum don’t know about my role now.

So you’re confident that the flipless isn’t part of his role or that maybe he just hid it from you?

Vader in particular, actually. I don’t mind claiming after he does, but he’s been radio silent in our chat for 2 days and hasn’t confirmed any night actions. I think he should be the priority claim at this point, especially since I’m apparently the only one who knows his character and role. That should be public information up for discussion at this point.

So neither of them have revealed their character and role to you?