ILikePie5

Can yall respond to #26

To put everyone on the record and help future reads/DPs, everyone should say which of the 5 mechanical pieces of information they think is fake and why.

I will say prima facie, I think 1 is true because claiming TP as scum is basically suicidal.

2 I think is true because Luna loves Tailors and

3 and 4 don’t make sense to me side by side. What’s the point of talking about 4 if 3 is in there. I think 3 is the mafia made up lie. 4 doesn’t make sense coming from scum.

5 is most likely true because Luna usually has multiple Vanilla’s in his set ups.

Saying something shouldn’t be modkillable =\= endorsing it lol

Your not real

Okay so I can Copy paste my PM in games right? How will town know if I’m ever scum. Gimme a break lol

At this point you’re just repeating the same point and not addressing the heart of the issue. Not really sure what to say to you. Again it’s your game, you wanna bastard mod that’s on you. It just takes away from everyone else’s experience.

I stand by my actions. You’re the only one that seems to have a problem with it, which is fine with me. Most everyone seemed to enjoy the game

Nah I’m telling you to be realistic. This ain’t something that is happening or will happen and to say it is, is a slippery slope fallacy. At the end of the day scum posting fake scum pms will hurt them more than help and context matters

Thats exactly what you’re endorsing based on your premise that “scum could fake what you did.” They can fake a lot of shit including PMs, but that doesn’t mean it should be allowed.

Mikal wrote:

Are you town and can I buddy you.

Yes and Yes

The issue of middling severely impacting games, effecting balance, and being used with more discretion still hasn’t been touched. You just keep repeating that rule breaks should be immediately met with mod kills without discretion. 

If it’s a blatant rule violation and intentful, then yes. Rules are there for a reason.

Anyways, if there’s a Tailor we all need to be very careful. Everyone should investigate motives after flips ie would this person as this role really do that

You said scum not town. I am asking why scum can’t create a fake role pm and copy paste it? Town could easily just say it’s a lie and lynch them especially if there not even a warning from the mod

So if scum do that, and don’t get mod killed. What does that tell the townies?

You’re essentially endorsing Copy paste of PMs for every faction

Lunatic wrote:

Mago still didn’t kill anyone, not even Mikal who was using extreme OGI even after he said not to. As bad a mod as you thought he was, at least he didn’t ruin the whole game because of his ego like you did lmao

Mikal used OGI this game too, even though he lied about. The whole bus driver thing was a complete lie. I didn’t mod kill him for that. If OGI was against the rules for Mago, he should’ve killed him. It’s a false premise. I don’t think OGI is inherently AI. Mago does. But if he does, he failed to enforce it, which is his problem

Lunatic wrote:

I don’t understand this “scum could create a fake pm and copy paste it” argument. Why wouldn’t they be allowed to do that? Lol

Okay, so you’re saying town should be allowed to copy paste their PM?

VTL: Ultracrepidarian

are you going to be active?

Yall are retards

Fresh off the press from Mago.

Lol here is what Kohai said:

That makes no sense and is not what I am saying. I am saying context should matter and if its possible I could have made that PM up as scum and googled that info, then I was never "confirmed" by posting it.

Okay, then if you create a full PM and copy paste it, it’s possible to make it up and post it as scum. You’re still not confirmed. So you’re endorsing creating fake PMs and posting them as scum. That’s always been banned.

If he was enforcing his rules and banning everyone who didnt RP as their character the game would have been super gay because literally 70% of the player base it was super obvious to tell who they were. Your game ended up super gay because you handed out mod kills left and right, and took player control out of the picture, actively favoring the scum team by giving them a free mislynch.

I enforced the rules that have been commonplace for years. Your “paraphrase” was objectively not a paraphrase based on everyone’s assessment, as well as ChatGPT lol. Did I mod kill you when you first gave your justification? No, because it was a paraphrase at a higher level and you didn’t include every last detail almost verbatim. Here you did. As for Mikal, he was well aware that you can’t edit posts. He did it anyways. Not going to tolerate that.

I've talked to several of these individuals and have heard more nuanced takes lol. So they are either playing both sides, or you are lying. That said even if they do agree with you fully that I should have been modkilled they are just wrong. And thats okay. I dont care if people don't think it was a good enough paraphrase. I care about people thinking it should have resulted in a flat out mod kill. Most people I have talked to seem to agree that it was a bad paraphrase job, which I will admit. But most of them also think the straight up mod kill was too far.

Ive heard the opposite. Most everyone says it was modkillable. And again, it sets a bad precedent. Next thing you know, scum create a fake PM and copy paste it. It was not a paraphrase by any objective standard

Oh wow, once I presented what you did side by side to Mago, he agreed that it’s mod killable. And he said he told you before he saw the role PM. Nice try

You’re entitled to your opinion that it wasn’t a paraphrase but this is literally a Patrick vs Man-Ray situation lol.

And Kohai said you were retarded and should’ve been mod killed lol. So crazy meaning you were a retard to do that. I have the receipts of that. Never asked Mago, but it was probably before I had posted the flip.

But also, what you’re saying is if you fake created a full PM in the exact same structure, it shouldn’t be mod kill able, which is stupid.

As for modding methods, that’s a completely false equivalency fallacy lol. He didn’t bother enforcing rules. But those rules were stupid and unique to that game. My rules have been the rules since the beginning of mafia. You can’t use 90% of the same words, in the same order, and in the same structure and call that a “paraphrase.” That’s anti-thetical to the definition of paraphrase. WF, Kohai, Helz, Mikal, Casey, all agree with me, and I’m sure Mago will too, so nice try.

Lunatic wrote:

I am not arguing that it wasn't identical. Just that it was changed, even if slightly. And that is a paraphrase. Also you convienently missed the bulk of my argument about how mod kills severely impact a game and should be used with more discretion. But I take it you did that because you know you fucked up but don't wanna admit it. It's cool at the end of the day it was your own game you ruined.

Thats not what a paraphrase is lmao. If you did what you did in the real world, it’s plagiarism. Idk what definition of paraphrase you’re using but copying 90% of the words is not a paraphrase by any means. And yes it influenced the game because it was basically a copy paste of your PM, which we all know is banned. Objectively it was justified, which everyone pretty much agrees. You’re welcome to die on your die, but for the integrity of the game, it was mechanically similar to you copy pasting your PM, which should always result in a modkill.

Lunatic wrote:

Mikal should’ve 100% been lynched DP2 for a couple of reasons

Hmm… I felt like that was about happen. Maybe something happened to prevent that from happening? I don’t remember.

Do you really need me to go back and highlight exactly which words were 100% identical? I can do that. But paraphrasing means you explain at a higher level and in a different structure. If you had said it talks about chemical properties at a high level and then explained a few instead of stating, every last one, I would’ve been fine with it, but we can ask ChatGPT lol.

Casey_Risk wrote:

GG, congrats to scum on their win! Sorry I've been so inactive lately, I'm going to try to be better in the future.

My two cents on modkills ending the day: they should if the modkilled player is town but should not if they are scum. That way it will always hurt the team of the player who got modkilled, thus maximally disincentivizing rule breaking.

Ya I thought about that. In hindsight sight, probably should’ve let the DP continue with Mikal’s mod kill. Would’ve still been MYLO tho

I’m going to disagree with your town sided assessment. I think yall could’ve gotten multiple kills off. Not to mention yalls claims weren’t that good, which is your own fault. But all the counters were there

Lunatic wrote:

The mod kill was retarded in every way. I paraphased. That was an L decision but if you want to wait months just to ruin your own game thats on you. GGs to everyone else. Mafia were cooked if the mod did cater to them by giving them a free mislynch.

90% of the words were verbatim. That’s not paraphrasing. Paraphrasing is restating something in your own words. How hard was it for you to at a high level state what your PM said without using word for word the same thing in your PM.

Perfect time to post the cats 💀

Endgame is up! Thanks for playing!

NIGHT ACTIONS:

NP1 Action:

Banana: Chat between Mikal/WF

Casey: Bullish, Lunatic, Mikal

REF: Track Whiteflame - Visited Shining

Bullish: MD WF

Whiteflame: Lightning Rod Luna actions to self

Magic: 50/50 Helz or Bullish —> Success on Bullish

Luna: Hide behind REF —> Success

Mikal: Redirect Luna to Shining

Helz: Vaporize Kohai —> Success

Resolution: 

Mikal redirects Luna (intercepted by WF). WF redirects actions on Luna to self and visits Shining (via scum Redirector) and gets Vanillaized. REF sees WF visit Shining. Bullish receives “yes.”

———————

NP2 Actions:

Banana - Chat between Helz & Thoth

REF - Track Mag1c —> Vanillaized 

Bullish - MD Mag1c NP1 —> YES

Mag1c - Protect Helz

Mikal - Redirect REF to Shining

Helz - Vaporize Banana

———————

NP3 Actions:

Bullish - MD WF NP2 —> NO

Mag1c - Protect REF —> Fails

Mikal - Redirect Thoth to Mag1c

Helz - Vaporize REF

———————

NP4 Actions:

Bullish - MD Shining NP4 —> NO

Mag1c - Protect Bullish

Helz - Vaporize Mag1c

———————

NP5 Actions:

Bullish - MD Thoth - NP4 —> NO

Shining - NK Bullish

TOWN:

Banana - You are Carbon. You are tetravalent, meaning you have four valence electrons available for covalent bonding. This lets you form up to four stable connections at once, placing you at the center of molecular frameworks. In organic chemistry, this makes you the backbone of complexity—able to link atoms into chains, branches, and rings rather than remaining isolated or linear. You don’t just participate in molecules; you determine how they are built. You also exhibit catenation, the rare ability to bond with yourself repeatedly to form long carbon chains and complex networks. This is what allows hydrocarbons, polymers, and biological macromolecules like DNA and proteins to exist. You are not a passive element—you are the scaffold on which life is constructed. Thus, you are the Architect. Each night, prior to the end of the NP, you may choose two players. Those two players will be able to chat privately with each other during the following DP (and only during this DP). You may not select yourself. You win with the Town.

Thoth - You are Oganesson. At atomic number 118, you sit at the extreme boundary of nuclear existence, where stability is no longer guaranteed by simple periodic trends but by rare, delicate quantum effects. Like electrons in atomic orbitals, protons and neutrons occupy quantized nuclear energy levels. Closed nuclear shells—especially the predicted magic numbers around 114 protons and 184 neutrons—create extra binding energy that partially offsets the otherwise overwhelming Coulomb repulsion. This is the theoretical “island of stability,” where superheavy nuclei might achieve half-lives far longer than expected. You are not inside that island, but you exist as evidence that it is real: your very survival confirms that shell stabilization can counteract fission-driven instability, epitomizing the victory over scum . Therefore, you are the Soldier. If you are the last member of town alive, town will automatically win. You win with the Town.

Casey - You are Magnesium. You support inhibitory signaling in the brain, especially through modulation of GABAergic signaling and regulation of NMDA (glutamate) receptor activity. By reducing neuronal excitability and stabilizing excitation–inhibition balance, you can lower physiological arousal during sleep onset and throughout sleep cycles. That can make sleep architecture more consolidated, meaning fewer fragmented awakenings and potentially more stable REM periods. If prior sleep was stressed, fragmented, or short, improving your status may indirectly allow a “REM rebound” effect. REM rebound is a well-known sleep phenomenon where the brain increases REM intensity or duration after a period of REM suppression During REM rebound, people often report more vivid, emotional, or unusual dream. For this reason, you are the 1x Dreamer. One night, if you are not visited by a player, you will receive a list of three names. At least one of those will be scum. You win with the Town.

REF - You are Technetium. You have a metastable isotope designed for one purpose: to briefly enter a living system, reveal what is happening inside it, and then safely fade away. You are used in nuclear medicine as a radioactive tracer, meaning you help doctors see how different parts of the body are functioning in real time. When a nuclear medicine scan is needed, you are administered to a patient—usually by injection—so you can travel through the bloodstream and accumulate in specific organs or tissues depending on your chemical form. From there, you emit gamma radiation that can be detected by imaging equipment, allowing clinicians to map physiological activity rather than just structure. You do not stay long enough to disrupt the system you are observing; instead, you act like a temporary signal embedded in the body’s normal function, making invisible processes visible. Because of this, you are the Tracker. Each night, you may select a player. You will learn who they visited. You win with the Town.

Kohai - You are Helium. In real chemistry, you are a noble gas with a completely filled 1s² electron shell. This full valence shell makes you exceptionally stable, meaning you have no tendency to gain, lose, or share electrons. You do not form bonds under normal conditions because there is no energetic incentive for you to change your state. You are chemically “complete,” existing in a low-energy configuration that resists interaction.You are also extremely light, non-toxic, and non-reactive, which makes you physically safe and easily detectable. Because of your simplicity—just two protons, two electrons, and usually a few neutrons—you are one of the most fundamentally “pure” elements in the universe. Not to mention you help fill balloons, which kids love. There is no ambiguity in your structure or behavior; your identity is consistent and easily verified. Thus, you are the Activated Innocent Child. At any point in any day phase, I will publically announce you as innocent and a member of town. You win with the Town.

Magoroth - You are Calcium. In the periodic table, you are an alkaline earth metal with the electron configuration [Ar] 4s². This makes you highly willing to lose two electrons and form Ca²⁺, a stable ionic state that readily integrates into larger structures. But your true importance is not in your reactivity—it is in what your ions do once incorporated into systems. In biological and chemical contexts, you are a structural ion. You form the backbone of stability in compounds like calcium phosphate in bones and teeth, where you contribute to rigid crystalline lattices that resist deformation. You also play a critical role in cellular signaling, where carefully regulated Ca²⁺ gradients control muscle contraction and neurotransmitter release. In every case, your presence determines whether systems hold their shape or lose integrity. Therefore, you are the Strengthener. Each night, you may select a player. That player’s action will not be susceptible to any interference. You win with the Town.

Bullish - You are Cesium. Timekeeping is anchored to the hyper-precise quantum behavior of your isotope cesium-133. An atomic clock works by measuring the exact frequency of radiation associated with the transition between two hyperfine energy levels of your ground state electron configuration. Specifically, this transition corresponds to 9,192,631,770 cycles per second, a value so stable that it has been used to define the SI second. This means time, as humans officially measure it, is based on your internal quantum structure. That stability is what makes you a “time standard.” In an atomic clock, lasers are tuned to force your electrons to oscillate between hyperfine states. When the frequency matches exactly, the system locks in resonance. That resonance becomes the tick of time itself. For this reason, you are the Time Traveller. Each night, you may target someone and ask the host whether that player was visited by or visited anyone on a specific night (this night does not need to be the same night that the action is being submitted on). Note that my answer will be yes: they were visited or visited someone or no. You win with the Town.

Whiteflame - You are Neodymium. In the periodic table, you are a lanthanide with the electron configuration [Xe] 4f⁴ 6s². Your partially filled 4f subshell gives rise to strong unpaired electron behavior, which in solid-state systems allows you to form powerful magnetic dipoles. When incorporated into alloys like neodymium–iron–boron (NdFeB), you become one of the strongest permanent magnets known, capable of producing extremely high magnetic fields relative to your size. The 4f electrons in neodymium are shielded from the external environment by outer electron shells, allowing their magnetic moments to remain largely unquenched. This leads to strong anisotropy in magnetic materials—meaning the system prefers certain orientations and channels influence along defined pathways rather than dispersing it randomly. This is not passive behavior—you actively organize and channel external forces into a focused direction. Therefore, you are the Lightning Rod. Each night, you may target a player. Any night actions directed at that target will be redirected to you. You win with the Town.

Mag1cman - You are Hydrogen. In chemistry, you are not defined by complexity but by possibility. With a single proton and electron, you sit at the boundary between structure and freedom: you can remain isolated, bind into pairs, or become the foundation of essentially every major chemical system. Even at the cosmological level, you are the dominant element of the universe—not because you are complex, but because you are the baseline unit from which complexity emerges. Through hydrogen bonding, you allow local interactions to influence distant parts of the network, distributing energy, tension, and stability across the entire system rather than concentrating it in one place. With you, there is life in the universe. Without you, there is utter darkness. Thus, you are the Multi Doctor. Each night, you may submit a list of X players, who will all have a (100/X)% chance of being protected from death on that night. You win with the Town.

Lunatic - You are Krypton. The name “krypton” comes from the Greek word kryptos (κρυπτός), meaning “hidden” or “concealed.” That meaning is not symbolic—it is embedded in how you exist in nature and how you were historically perceived. In the periodic table, you sit in Group 18 with a closed-shell configuration [Ar] 3d¹⁰ 4s² 4p⁶. That full valence shell makes you chemically inert under most conditions—your ionization energies are high, your electron affinity is effectively negligible, and your participation in bonding is extremely limited.You are colorless, odorless, and chemically nonreactive under standard conditions. You remain undetected unless specific tools—like spectroscopy or high-energy excitation—are used to reveal you. Even your discovery came late in chemical history because you resisted easy detection in air separation. Due to this, you are the Compulsive Hider. Each night, you must choose a target. You will hide behind that player. If that player were to die, you will die as well. You win with the Town.

MAFIA:

Shining - You are Chlorine. You are one electron short of a full valence shell, and that missing electron defines your entire chemical identity. In the real world, you exist as a diatomic greenish-yellow gas that is toxic and corrosive because of its strong oxidizing power. When you encounter organic molecules or biological systems, you do not gently bond—you often break existing structures apart, substituting yourself into chemical frameworks and altering their function permanently. This is why you are used in disinfection: it disrupts proteins, enzymes, and membranes by oxidizing key functional groups, effectively stripping biological systems of their original activity. Because of this, you are the Green Goo. You will passively and reflexively vanillaize the first two players that target you at night, permanently stripping them of any abilities that they might have had. You win with the Mafia.

Mikal - You are Fluorine. In chemistry you are the most electronegative and reactive element in the periodic table—an atom that forcibly changes the direction of chemical behavior wherever you are introduced. In the periodic table, you sit at the top of Group 17 with the electron configuration [He] 2s² 2p⁵. Like all halogens, you are one electron short of a full valence shell, but unlike chlorine or bromine, your extremely small atomic radius and very high effective nuclear charge give you the highest electronegativity of any element. You do not merely participate in reactions—you dominate them, pulling electron density toward yourself and reshaping the entire distribution of charge in a molecule. Therefore, you are the Redirector. Each night, you may target one player and redirect their night action(s), if they have any, to a specific secondary target instead of that person's original target. You win with the Mafia

Helz - You are Bromine. You occupy a unique physical state: at room temperature, you exist as a dense red-brown liquid that readily evaporates into a toxic vapor. That volatility defines your chemistry. When bromine vapor spreads through a system, it does not simply react with one target—it contaminates the surrounding environment. Bromination reactions often interrupt or suppress existing molecular behavior by attacking double bonds, substituting into hydrocarbons, or denaturing biological molecules through oxidation. In industrial and biological contexts, bromine compounds are used as disinfectants, fumigants, and flame retardants specifically because they interfere with ongoing reaction chains and halt normal activity. Thus, you are the Vaporizer. At night, if no other member of your faction is performing the factional kill action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will perform the factional kill and all actions used by that player that Night, and all other actions targeted at that player that Night, will be blocked. You win with the Mafia.

MAFIA WINS

So first off I’ll start by saying that I did not expect to conduct two mod-kills this game. Both in my opinion were objectively justified. The first on Luna was basically almost verbatim from his PM in terms of structure and verbiage, down to the detail. 

Here is his PM: 

Lunatic - You are Krypton. The name “krypton” comes from the Greek word kryptos (κρυπτός), meaning “hidden” or “concealed.” That meaning is not symbolic—it is embedded in how you exist in nature and how you were historically perceived. In the periodic table, you sit in Group 18 with a closed-shell configuration [Ar] 3d¹⁰ 4s² 4p⁶. That full valence shell makes you chemically inert under most conditions—your ionization energies are high, your electron affinity is effectively negligible, and your participation in bonding is extremely limited.You are colorless, odorless, and chemically nonreactive under standard conditions. You remain undetected unless specific tools—like spectroscopy or high-energy excitation—are used to reveal you. Even your discovery came late in chemical history because you resisted easy detection in air separation. Due to this, you are the Compulsive Hider. Each night, you must choose a target. You will hide behind that player. If that player were to die, you will die as well. You win with the Town.

Here is what he posted:

I am Krypton which comes from a Greek word meaning hidden/concealed

The meaning is not symbolic, and is based on how I am historically percieved

Im in group 18 on the periodic table

I have a closed shell config "[Ar] 3d¹⁰ 4s² 4p⁶" whatever the fuck that means

The shell makes me chemicaly invert under many conditions

I have high energy ionization

My electron affinity is effectively neglible

My participation in bonding is extremely limited.

I am colorless, oderless, and chemically nonreactive under standard conditions.

I remain undetected unless specific tools like spectroscopy or high energy excitation are used to reveal me.

My discovery came late in chemical history because I resisted easy detection in air seperation.

Due to all this I am a compulsive hider.

Y’all can be the jury on this, but I think it actually helped the game move forward for town cause Luna was a prime mislynch target anyways after leading the Mago lynch.

The Mikal one was less obvious, but he basically admitted to editing a post, and I saw the post that was edited too, so that was a no brainer.

I want to start off with the whole Thoth play at the beginning of the game. I thought it was a good way to play Soldier to uphold the utility of the role, but he should’ve fake claimed something at LYLO and quickhammered either person when it was 2-1. Long story short he played his role well until he didn’t. Besides that, behaviorally, his play was garbage. Town-locking Helz for that “bait” was so bad. It was obviously bait and Helz is smart. Might have worked on someone like Shining or Kohai but never works with Helz. Also, Helz literally claimed Vaporizer to you in the PM and you didn’t even bother to look it up to see what it does. Like come on man. DP6 from Thoth was also so bad, I wanted to cry. Zero semblance of an argument as to why he’s town or why Shining is scum, just a blind “believe me.” Whiteflame mechanically could not be scum after he didn’t quick hammer you. Thoth barely fought for himself and was incoherent. Learn to appeal to your audience. Shining was bad, but Thoth was even worse.

Moving to Shining. This is why we never let him skate by. He bitches everytime he gets mislynched, but he gets mislynched cause he has no behavior to support him because he doesn’t post, and his role is bad. Casey was onto Shining, but wasn’t pursued, which was disappointing. The fake claim was fine, but it literally was the last claim, and an easy one at that, which leads me to my next topic: claims.

Mikal should’ve 100% been lynched DP2 for a couple of reasons. First, claiming Magnet. He didn’t even claim Magnet. He claimed Redirector by his own words. A couple people pointed this out. Why would I call a Redirector a Magnet? Makes zero sense. The second is justification, and this is where I fault Whiteflame. Neodymium magnets are the strongest in the world. Why would I make you a Lightning Rod and Cobalt the Magnet? After Neodymium, it’s Samarium. Samarium would be the next best for Magnet. No way on earth would it be Cobalt. All of this combined with him being on the Dreamer list? Should’ve been a slam dunk for town. Mikal not being lynched DP2 probably directly contributed to the town loss. Helz, needless to say was the obvious lynch after all of his logical inconsistencies and very scummy role (even though he did it on purpose). With Shining, I knew the Green Goo was going to trip people up, and it tripped Whiteflame up. Unfortunate, but would’ve helped if he had been lynched first as Casey proposed. In general, if Mikal was lynched DP2 as he should’ve been, the scum Redirector would be gone. I also thought that the chats SIGNIFICANTLY harmed town this game. Whether it was Mikal bamboozling Whiteflame or Thoth town reading Helz for weak bait, it made it a lot harder for town to succeed.

Overall, I thought the game was pretty balanced. Scum thought it was town sided, but they were powerful. The Redirector could be used on Hider to secure two kills. Vaporizer served as a Strongman/Rolestopper. Redirector could also redirect town PRs to Shining to be Vanillaized. Don’t really understand, but I’m open to feedback on this. Theme split was relatively obvious at Halogens vs others. Scum figured it out pretty quickly, but their questions weren’t much help. The roles they asked about were Super Saint and Governor. Characters were Arsenic and Cobalt. Anyways, hope you all had fun, and let this be a learning experience for everyone as well. Thanks for playing!

Thoth was lynched. He was INNOCENT. Endgame will be up later tonight

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

Thoth (2/2): Shining (p#44), whiteflame (p#129)

Shining (1/2): Thoth (p#53)

Not Voting (0): None

With 3 players alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day phase ends in 23 hours.

⚠️ Thoth has reached the lynch threshold. Hammer appears to be p#129.