ILikePie5

If you had just said 'I'm Zelda' instead of leaving the caps lock on for half the DP I would have been off your wagon in an instant. It staggers me that, as town, you thought it was outrageous that you were pressured and expected to claim after accidentally ccing and hammering a major character at the end of the last DP.

And he’s bitching about it in PMs with me. What a loser. Zelda would’ve been more than enough reason to back off

There’s your 4. Claim.

As for what to do with all this, I still don't see much point in pushing off from the mutual claim. It seems like the main issue is order of operations. Why don't you both just pick a time and claim simultaneously? Make this real simple.

Ive already said that it’s a matter of principle at this point. And he has 3 votes on him. Unless he thinks theres 3 scum, golden rule says one townie thinks he’s scum too. Get 4 on either me or him, Idrc. I’m not scared. He’s acting like it’s the end of the world.

If that was his obvious goal, then I'd have to believe that he ignored the opportunity up to the point that Thoth claimed, then chose to hammer with an obviously disprovable CC, particularly if he anticipated the flip. It's sloppy from a scum perspective, sloppier still to then make this a heads up between the two of you.

No one would’ve batted an eye if he had hammered. But he waited. Idk why, but he waited, but that’s irrelevant and a red herring. As soon as Thoth claimed, he hammered. There’s a limit to sloppy.

And go read your PM again. It’s blatantly obvious based on how my PM is written and Banana’s flipped PM that I am a certain character. It’s literally the first line. How do you miss that? It’s not like there’s 50 lines.

It’s not sloppy for him to 1v1 me. He’s done it countless times before, especially against me. The fact he thinks he’s entitled to a townread is the worst part imo.

Why don't you claim so he does and we can then discuss how retarded it is to even care about claims

Im not claiming out of principle. If he’s town, he made a mistake, and another towny is sussing him for it.

This is just spam at this point and I’m not going to continue to repeat myself and clutter the DP. Yall decide who is going to claim first.

Meh. I lied. Whiteflame is busy. I was hoping for more reactions.

Idek why you tried considering you tried that on him considering he and I were scum last game and you tried it with me. We both had a good laugh when you did that

Im fine pursuing REF secondarily. He’s next on my list

THEN FUCKING DO IT

Full claim then

Im not even going to entertain Mharman. Page 6 and 7 is borderline spam. eVerYone Is rETardEd tHAt iS voTinG mE

Anyways, yeah my take here is that pie and mharman are both probably town here and just super tunnel vision on each other right now. I can see pie getting steamed here and combined with the fact that he was apparently blocked or something might be fueling his conspiracy against mharm considering he was sussing mharm, but at the same time it could also just be coincidence, or maybe even set up to make mharm look bad my scum.

If scum have a roleblocker, what the optimal use of that? Roleblocking a Town PR. Scum have no good idea of who that could’ve been because Mago was the only one who claimed. What’s the next best option? Roleblocking someone who susses you because they are likely to investigate you. Why does Pie get roleblocked here? Only if there’s scum in Thoth, REF, Mharman.

This feels like town passion though, something we didn't see from pie in the last game, and it does stand out to me as a town tell because this is how pie acts as town. Same with mharman, I genuinely buy that he made the mistake there, and I don't really hold that over him. I was half asleep when I posted the comment that it was "sus" that he pushed me towards the end there, and I was genuinely peeved about that when I saw it since I wasn't online to defend myself and I was just hours before that, but I can buy that mharman is town here. Also I think scum mharman could definitely find easier lynch targets than "pie and luna" if he was scum.

I actually disagree with this. I don’t think he’s afraid to pursue big fish. He’s pushed me multiple times. He sussed me in Ted Lasso cause I was inactive.

For him to be targeting us he must be pretty genuinely suspicious of us, because scum mharman knows there is no world where those are easy lynches to obtain, so why take the path of most resistance? If he is scum, props to him because this is a major wifom argument that literally no one besides me is making, so if this was his plan, it could have easily backfired.

The path of least resistance was Thoth. And he hammered him

So yeah I'd prefer not to go after either of these two atm.

I am actually wanting to pressure Rex. Rex hasn't really taken a lot of solid stances, and his joke at the end of the day phase "Never change guys" while funny, kind of rubbed me the wrong way that he was there and making fun of people's decision while not really contributing his own decision. I went back and read all his posts, he had a clear indication of wanting to push magoroth early, later said he would be down to lynch mago or thoth based on little contribution, and only fully voted thoth after the "CC" debacle. Then he doesn't post until EOD, where he makes the joke. IDK I am getting the vibes that he is around and aware of the game but going with the flow rather than trying to solve it. His vote was the scummiest on the thoth wagon imo, and the fact that he never stated an opinion change on it despite mharman changing his claim, or really commenting it at all makes is seem more scummy in hindsight.

So I may be the minority here, but I'd rather redirect pressure from pie/mharm to rex here.

VTL rex 

Im fine pursuing REF secondarily. He’s next on my list

You didn't want to lynch wylted in the last game for baiting magoroth out with his fake result. This lynch all liars has historically been used so inconsistently that is laughable its even still being used as a term.

I know. It’s soecificed towards Wylted on purpose lol

What if both of you are town here and just being stubborn knuckleheads?

"If you were my sons I would knock your heads together and lock you in a room until you remembered you are brothers!" -Catelyn Stark, GOT

That’s fine. It’s a distinct possibility. I’m asking him to full claim so that I can make that determination.

To be fair also Mikal is a very different player from mharman, mharman is more careful as scum. We literally just saw his scum game in Ted Lasso, this was not even close to a strategy he used.

Is he more careful as scum vs town though is the question. He had Paper Mario example up in a heartbeat. He’s being extremely defensive and resorting to ad hom.

He was very controlled and calculated there. I think as town you are less likely to focus on your own role, and more eager to get in and scum hunt also. Scum are usually more focused on their PM and it's structure. And if you are not majorly into the zelda franchise I could see you getting zelda and link mixed up. 

Just my take here. 

He lied about the gender of his character. Pretty sure that was his first post in DP1. If he’s town, he’s literally blaming someone else for his own mistakes. Everyone who is voting him is retard. That’s something I looked back just now. In Ranger’s Apprentice, he sees votes on him, resorts to ad homs.

Really wish this DP had started sooner. I'm on about 4 hours of sleep from last night (seriously, good sleep has been elusive for about a month now), and I'm having trouble focusing on the words on screen at this point.

The long and short of it is that I can see the case both of you are making. I think there are significant oddities in Mag1c's play, but they could just be legitimate fumbles, albeit very big ones.

Could it be? Sure. Anything is possible. But the fact that he thinks he’s entitled to be townread for it is a disgrace. If he made the mistake, he’s an idiot for it. You were Mikal’s partner in Alien Mafia, so you know that Town just took it as a legitimate mistake and moved on. I’m not making the same mistake again. At the worst he’s scum. At the best, this sets a bad precedent.

In particular, while CCing Link does stand out as a big problem, it also makes sense that he'd be mentioned in multiple character justifications, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he just saw the name a few times and thought that was his character. It's not great play, but it's not necessarily scum indicative, especially since the CC places him as a prime target for a lynch the next DP. It doesn't necessarily make Mag1c town just because it would be very sloppy play as scum, but considering how he's played as scum recently, it's not what I'd expect to see from him if he was scum.

I don’t think it’s sloppy at all. His obvious goal was to lynch Thoth. He was going to lynch him to begin with. But then Thoth dropped the bomb that he was Link. Naturally, that would’ve derailed the lynch. But he just hammers first blindly without checking his PM.

As for the reasons Mag1c has given to sus Pie, the not being there at EoD is the weakest. I went back and checked and, yes, that's what Pie said would happen ahead of the game.

Yes, I did, and I got an earful last night.

A lot of the rest of this looks like Mag1c's frustration in response to tunneling (fair, I've been there) and the shift to focusing on him after the events of the last DP. I get why those would be frustrating, but I can't say the continued pursuit of his read or the decision to push Mag1c this DP comes off as scummy. It's not unusual for Pie to pursue someone like this as scum or town.

In terms of what we can do about it, I think the mutual claim probably makes the most sense, though I'm about to shut my computer down because I'm getting a headache. If you guys don't sort this out by tomorrow, I'll give my two cents when I can think more clearly.

He hammered Link. That should objectively be scummy. He can make whatever excuse he want. But the fact is that he hammered Link.

I am driving home right now. I will read when I get home

I’m out for the night. Toodles

Yall are the swing votes here.

Choose who you want to claim out of Pie/Mharman.

Current votes based on what I’ve read are:

Pie: Mharman, Mago

Mharman: Pie, Wylted

you’re contradicting yourself. You were straight up sussing me. I wasn’t a null.

I said it was “alarm bells.” I never stated I thought you were scum.

And then why can’t it be the same here? If I can be town there I can be town here. You know this. All of you see what was an obvious honest mistake. And you’re falling for it. And Pie ur a fucking dipshit for even thinking this case is any good. If I’m a moron you’re the moron supreme.

Lmfao. So you admitted to being a moron in Paper Mario. And are claiming to be a moron here, but Pie is somehow the moron. Nice lol

really, and you suddenly stopped being with the girl when it was time for you to enter thread and express your “confusion?”

Technically possible but the timing still isn’t good. Good effort, but no dice

Uh yes? She was getting ready cause we were gonna go get ice cream.

yes it would’ve been fine. It’s common people will vote someone they townread on low time just to have a lynch, especially DP1.

But people aren’t going to vote a person who claimed the main character, are they? You know this as well as anyone. Multiple people have stated they would’ve unvoted.

and I don’t even need to go for any lynch on you or Lunatic as scum, nor do I even need to say I townread Thoth.

Again, as scum lynching the bigger fish is always desirable. Your hand was forced the second Thoth came on and claimed Link.

Anyone can check the thread. Before I re-entered the thread on low time, I was questioning Thoth and had moved him out of my town block. Upon re-entering the thread, instead of appealing to low time and hammering Thoth, I observed the situation, moved him back into my town pile, and then started pushing for lynches on Pie and Lunatic, only hammering Thoth in my own confusion about my PM after he claimed.

You hammered Thoth as scum because he claimed Link, who is a main character. It’s really that simple. You couldn’t use time because he had just claimed the main character. Voting for that as scum is suicide.

opportunism. Pursues Thoth over me when I’m townread and others are sussing Thoth. Only pursues me after the mistake from last DP, when he hopes the perception of me would’ve changed.

I null read 3 people. Mharman, REF, and Thoth. I picked a person from those 3. Nothing more to it.

bad arguments. His bad logic, bad faith, and outright dishonest arguments/ignoring my real points has been well documented. When Pie’s logic starts to slip, it’s a scumtell. Casey did a good job of noting this in past games.

This is just wrong. If you are town, you have yourself to blame, just like Paper Mario Mafia. You claiming will help me determine whether you are truly scum or a moron.

not being there for EoD, but then randomly showing up just after Thoth was hammered

I already said in signups I was going to be with the girl until Sunday afternoon. I checked in when I could. Nice try though.

Like I said. Only way you’re getting a claim out of me is in a trade with Pie and Lunatic. I am very confident I nailed it on them. Especially with how Pie is arguing.

You are wrong.

Again, take note of how Pie repeatedly ignores the point.

I’m NOT saying scum has no incentive to hammer Link, I AM saying scum has no incentive to do such weird CC shit, WHEN they had an easy alternative to simply appeal to low time and hammer off that, BEFORE Thoth could even claim. INSTEAD, I pinged him so he could claim.

You were peddling a Pie and Luna lynch because you townread Thoth. And you’re saying if you had just hammered based on time, it would’ve been fine?

You had to do this. Otherwise people would’ve questioned why you were hammering a person you townread lol

I would have hammered him there without the CC regardless of affiliation unless he was scum. It's very easy to justify that lynch, so easy in fact that we should just double down on it but I will humor you. I just want magics claim

I would’ve scumread you if you hadn’t lol.

“No scum incentive” to hammer the guy that claimed Link?

What makes It any less likely? Mag1c’s response to his mistake was genuine, he didn’t fake that. “Sorry sorry”, that’s not fake.

You weren’t in the game Mikal did that. Everyone also believed him that game.

Literally anyone can make a mistake and think they’re someone they’re not. It’s not a lie, it’s a mistake. It’s easily possible.

When the stakes are as high as CCing someone? Mikal literally did this in a previous game. “Innocent mistake,” doesn’t cut it.

Legit Pie is only starting to get pull because he’s good at being the loudest voice in the room. Not because of any good reasoning in his “case”

This is just funny. Go look at post counts for this DP. pIE iS lOUdesT perSoN In tHE rooM

Not a fan of Pie styling himself Town leader here.

That’s how I play. Ask anyone.

I’m not seeing what Mag1c is seeing here but it feels very strange that Pie is scumreading him. I know it’s not much, but it makes me sus of ILikePie5.

Why is strange to scumread someone who lied about his soft claim. Someone who claims they didnt read their PM before voting someone for a CC. And especially cause that CC was main character Link.

He dumbass, maybe it’s cause your arguments are stupud and all WIFOM. Objective fact is you lied about your gender, and you only revealed that now.

Did you target magic?

I did not

Yeah, I would have unvoted. And yes, if I believed I was Link and I saw someone claim that character, I would have double-checked my PM. Fair points.

Exactly. And he claims he made the same mistake before. If anything that’s even worse. Help me pursue a full claim from him