Point me to the flaws in my arguments against Banana from a mechanical and behavioral standpoint.
Point me to the flaws in my arguments against Banana from a mechanical and behavioral standpoint.
Why do you townread Banana
i can say the same thing about slanderer, and redirector
Town can use those roles to harm scum. Your role…ONLY HARMS TOWN.
well thats actually my role so ur gonna feel real silly for this one later
You’d feel silly when I flip town if you’re town. But you’re gonna be happy when I flip town as scum.
this is a lie. i voted mago because of his framer fake claim and i voted thoth because he was inactive and i was buying into the arguments against him.
So…you were bandwagoning both times. You just voted the left to never be seen again twice.
this is also hypocrtcal because you have been inactive, you bandwagoned onto mago dp1 and werent even there to vote yesterday. today uve just been hard tunneling me. ur votes r equally bad sir
This is just wrong. I sussed Mago before he did the whole Framer thing. The fact that you’re being this disingenuous and people are buying this just shows we don’t deserve to win the game. Town just falls apart when I can’t carry. And then I do, I get NKed. This isn’t even fun anymore.
i dont scum read mago, i scum read u. and again its not omgus cuz im not jus votin u cuz u voted me. i went over that already with u.
Thats exactly what you’re doing because the premise of your argument is there can’t be 2 Slanderers when there are literally 2 Benefactors, and you’re one of them.
this makes no sense bcuz im not scum reading that part of the role. the same can apply to u ignoring the even night benefactor of my role so u can focus on the one that looks worse.
I already said I don’t scumread you for that part. But you pinged everybody and specifically pointed out how everything is connected except my one role. Your role makes ZERO SENSE with a townie.
ur ignoring the part im talking about where theres no syngergy with two even night slanderers, but there is syngergy between odd/even and tracker/watcher. etc. ur argument is weaker sir.. even whiteflame says this was suspicus
So again. Do you think I’m lying about claiming Even night Slanderer? Because it’s a confirmable role. It’s in the OP that there are multiple roles like that. If there are 2 Benefactors, why can’t there be 2 Slanderers?
i can too but it wouldn't be pro town for me to do it. also what if u get roleblocked or something
Im talking about my Lynchproof that I can unlock with a little more favor. You conveniently ignored that too. So ya I can confirm my slanderer, and I can confirm my lynchproof.
If someone can answer why REF would give town would give town a role that can only Roleblock mod-confirmed town, I will literally vote myself. I’m tired of all this bs. Pie is scummy cause he feels off. No shit. I’ve been bombed at work. This is obviously not how I play. Everyone here has seen how I play. It’s retarded.
Reasons for Banana being Scum:
And guys, I CAN LITERALLY CONFIRM MYSELF TOMORROW.
ok what about it? my point is there is 2 slanderers, and no one is sayin anything about it. what does the strengthen have to do with my point
If there can be 2 Benefactors, why can’t there be 2 Slanderers lol. And you’re accusing me of hypocrisy?
its not omgus if im voting u for another reason besides u voting for me. im voting you because of the hypocrsy of being against cc's to everyone but urself.
What are you even talking about? What hypocrisy? You and Kohai both claimed Benefactor. I’m not scumreading you for that. I’m scum reading you for your Siren claim. There is no objective reason to give a role that functions like that to Town considering the Emperor is mod confirmed town. It only makes sense in the hands of scum.
so multiples of the same roles are aloud to exist for u only? k got it.
vtl pie.
Nice OMGUS
what other roles? only thing i can think of is the passives wryly and shining have, but they are both called different things at least. only other duplicate role is the benefactor me and kohai have but its mixed to odd/even night. nothing else is duplicated. the town roles all seem to syngerize with each other as well, like tracker and watcher, vigilante pairs with the unkillable roles like one of whoever whiteflame and luna is are commuter, thoths bulletproof, and i am a ascetic in my final rank as well, so this shows that there is counters to the multiple killing roles after certain ranks since there is also a scum poison.
Very convenient of you to ignore my Strengthener claim
can someone explain to me why no one is questioning the fact that we have two even night slanderers in wylted in pie? am i missing something, or are we just okay with that?
Because multiples of these types of roles exist per the OP. And I can confirm it tonight
Main thing that's holding me back from lynching him is that we could potentially just confirm him next DP. If my math is right, he's claiming to have 7 favor right now, so he could theoretically have the lynchproof next DP. Not saying it solves the game, but maybe the thinking here was that it would be a big boon to town to have someone who is effectively confirmed going into the late game.
Exactly.
VTL Banana
The only flaw I've seen in your reasoning of Banana is that you misrepresented her role
I think everyone misunderstood the reasoning for that post. It was to show that her role is a custom role according to her, but it’s also a real role that’s out there. If all the custom roles have custom names, why is this one role not custom named
and you're criticizing her for posting sporadically when several players have been posting sporadically, you among them.
I’m not criticizing her for posting sporadically. I’m criticizing her for just coming in to vote and then leaving. She’s just wagoning to wagon. Awesome/Kohai hasn’t posted anything, but he’s next on my list of POE. I fully admit that I haven’t posted as much as I’d like, but I’ve posted more than those two.
Otherwise I agree, she is in the POE. Continuing to discuss Mago as scum in DP3 however kind of baffles me.
I think his behavior was/is objectively scummy, but as we talked about before, if he lives tomorrow, that’s the avenue to lynch him. And assuming 2 scum, 3 scum or 2-1 it’s going to be MYLO/LYLO tomorrow, so you have to reevaluate anyways. It’s going to be hard for them because if I get enough favor, I confirm myself tomorrow and that’s one less head in the POE.
Really sorry life is being such a bitch for you rn btw
Pie, why is Lunatic outside your PoE? Assume I am Town for a second. Is he possibly scum.
He’s on the outside of my POE depending on if he’s the Doctor or the Neighborizer. If he is the Neighborizer, then yes, he is possibly scum, but I’m less confident on that compared to Banana.
I know you’re probably gonna scumread me for this, but:
I wasn’t really super sure you were scum, just kinda agreed with Lunatic that you suggesting there’s 3P could come from some kinda informed perspective (for example, you’re Mafia and you know your faction has only one fake claim).
I’ve said in countless games before about how many scum I think there are based on the balance of the game. All I’m saying is just high level, if I were to design a game with 11 players, it would be 8-2-1. Could it be 8-3? Yes ofc. All of this is purely my opinion, and ive done similar to this in a large number of games in the past as well.
There were 12 players at first. No way there is only 2 mafia. Anything, I get Pie is really busy, but something seems off with him.
I admit I’m busy. I’m stressed. Life sucks. Yes there’s something off. Congrats, you’re thinking the same exact thing everyone else is thinking including me
Pie may be my top scumread right now. I know he's been slammed at work but his behavior just feels more like scum trying to play while busy than town trying to play while busy
I’m trying to scum hunt. What flaw do you see in my reasoning for scumreading Banana. There’s role mechanics. Every DP, she just comes in to vote and then dips.
VTL Pie
Whats your reasoning?
Pretty sure pie is scum here. He is only really pressuring people he thinks he can secure easy mislynches on, somehow town reads all the vets, normal pie would be hella sus of the other vets.
What do you mean? There’s a clear POE here. Mago will be exposed tomorrow if he lives (I still think he’s scummy. Haven’t forgotten previous DP). You/WF are at the end of the POE because one of you is the Protective role and the reads on each other, though I’ve already stated I think the non-protective role is more likely to be scum. Shining is probably the towniest person here. Wylted is on outskirts of POE. Only way he’s scum is if Miller was given as fake claim
That leaves…Wryly, Awesome/Kohai, Banana. I can’t help that the weakest players are in POE and I have at worse a null read on the other players who coincidentally are more experienced.
Plus the role is an outlier, strengthener is kind of a common fake claim and the slanderer is kind of a CC by kohai only khoais is more of a theft (which he strangely didn't mention, even though he was harping on wryly/shining cc'ing each other).
I can’t help what REF gave me. And if you think this is a fake claims, then you have to assume REF gave it to me. It’s not a safe claim if it’s a shitty fake claim
Like even buying the excuse that pie is busy (I know he genuinely is) like his behavior still feels different even analyzing his active posts. 0 interaction between him and kohai.
How am I supposed to interact with someone who has been even more inactive than me in DP1 and DP2, and hasn’t said much this DP3?
I think his vote on awesome was to look town last day phase, but kohai hasn't done a lot, and I feel like there would be a lot of focus on him from pie but there isn't. I am seeing a scum team here.
He’s part of the POE as I described earlier, but his role doesn’t stick out like Banana’s does. My focus is on my top scum read.
Pie being adamant about 2 scum and a third party suggests inside information as well, I think that is a pretty wild conclusion to jump to otherwise.
If I was scum, how would I know there’s a TP? This makes no sense? I’m saying from a pure balance standpoint it makes sense to 8-2-1 but it’s obviously up to REF.
Lastly in post 172 of dp1 pie said if he had enough favor he could carry the game.
Yep, at that point in time, I thought I could. I’ve explained this you in private. Everytime I stay alive I’m scumread because everyone is paranoid that Pie has to be scum. If I’m immune to lynches, I’m basically confirmed town, and I can lead town to victory. And also I’ll have Doctors or Watchers or similar on me in the night.
I was thinking he had some really amazing role here that could help him break the game, but the only thing I can fathom to think of that he could be referring to is his lynchproof, which 1. Requires him to be way more active and have amazing reads to use
I’m basically almost there. I can literally prove myself tomorrow with a little more favor. It’s the closest thing to mod confirmation.
2. Ignores the fact that his slanderer role could actually harmfully impact the town.
My plan was to waive anyways unless I was absolutely certain the person was scum. Like I would’ve used it on Mago if I could’ve.
And like I said earlier, I think scum probably have some pretty powerful roles based on how strong the town appears to be.
Assuming everyone is telling the truth and the game is balanced, yes. But I don’t know what scum have
Meaning that asking for favor would probably be a viable strategy from scum, not only for that but because it means that favor isn't getting fed into town power roles. It just doesn't make sense to ask for favor if you know your going to be busy and not able to post like anything if you think you are going to carry town to victory with a lynchproof lol.
At that point I had just gotten back from vacation. I didn’t think I’d be worked like a slave lol.
Somebody witnessed Mikal visiting me and apparently he had that ability
And you are absolutely sure you lost exactly 1 favor?
Let me see who he townread
Closest is Mago who he kinda sorta townread at the end.
No one has claimed receiving two favor stolen from wylted yet, so I am assuming it was given to scum.
Let me see who he townread
I just don’t love Bananas claim because it’s a mechanically weird role where you are role blocking the only confirmed town player in the game by vetoing decisions. Also completely outted that I have different roles as well that I can use so…yeah don’t love that.
Exactly, what’s the utility here. You would just waive every night. Why give that role to a townie?
If you are basing this off of role name, that's not a super convincing argument, because im pretty sure a mason recruiter isn't a "Neighborizer". Not sure where Rex finds the names for his role pm's but they are definitely not standard. Also shining and wryly both have two different names for the same passive that lets them identify roles who visit them (perceptive, and careful). I have never even heard of a slanderer or benefactor or adjudicator either. Magoroths vengeful is basically just a hunter.
If you look at the difference websites for roles Neighborizer is how the role is working. Shining and Wryly have different names, but they’re on MS and the descriptions match. Even if you look at Vengeful, it matches the description. It could obviously be fake claims, but it matches up.
The ONLY roles that you can’t find anywhere are the custom roles like Slanderer and Benefactor because they’re tied to favor. REF had to have made those up. “Siren” is also a custom role but it’s on MU. Why would he use a name that’s already taken to describe a custom role.
Why do you think there’s a 3rd party?
Balance. 8-3 is scumsided. 8-2-1 is more balanced. Ofc that’s how I would design the game and I’m not REF.
Largely agree with this, though I don't buy Wryly as scum, so we're talking you, Awesome/Kohai and Banana at this point.
Why? The only thing going for her is the mechanical aspect of her role.
A little wary of the Strengthener given that it wouldn't be a first for scum to use it as an easy fake claim, but with a Rolestopper, Redirector and RB already flipped, I can at least see why there might be a Strengthener.
I’m just saying what the mod gave me. I cant do much about what was given to me.
The Lynchproof would at least be confirmable if you could use it and I can't imagine REF giving that to scum, though I'm guessing you don't have access to it now.
Exactly, and I’m super close. I can literally confirm myself with a little more favor. It’s the closest thing to mod confirmed town in the game
The Siren role does ping me as odd, but I don't think Banana just grabbed a role designed for a TP and imposed a role tailor-made to this game over it to retain the name. The role looks scummy to me mainly because I don't see any town utility, but it's not because it's called "Siren."
Thats my point though. All the roles are either custom roles that you can’t find anywhere or are normal roles. This one sticks out in the sense that the role is out there, but description is different. If REF created all these names for the custom roles, the way she’s describing it is a custom role too, so why would he give a name that has something attached to it?
so lots of roles are doubled.
would like to hear from everyone how much favour they have and exactly what action they took on night one as well.
I received one favor, presumably from Supa
I dislike Banana’s Siren claim. Here is what a Siren does per MafiaUniverse. Funny enough it’s the role of the day on MU today. This is what Siren does:
”The Siren is an independently aligned player who may submit one name each night. If the named player visits the Siren on that night, they die. Once the Siren successfully kills two players in this fashion, they win the game.”
Assuming I die of poison tonight, we could be at 7v2 right now. With a mislynch and a Town death, that’s 4v2, MyLo.
And that’s assuming the poisoner can’t poison again. With a Town Vengeful, maybe a scum Poisoner that can poison multiple times isn’t that far fetched, especially considering all the crazy roles we’ve seen yet.
8v3 at start is also possible, but then the poisoner would have to be one-shot (possible); in which case right now it’s 6v3, with a mislynch we lose, so technically there is a possibility, but a slim one, that we are actually at MyLo right now. It would certainly help explain how many people seemingly confirmed each other’s roles.
Idk, it just feels too easy for it to be Pie/Kohai/Banana.
9 players remaining. Let’s assume it’s 7-2 right now. If we Mislynch today, it goes to 6-2. Let’s say the NK goes off. It’s 5-2. Let’s say you’re town and you die, it’s 4-2. Assuming Shining is still alive and is town, it’s effectively 5-2 with the double vote and you still get a lynch.
In a 6-3 scenario it gets much harder obviously. I still believe there’s a TP somewhere. If we eliminate them today, we should be safe.
Are you claiming to be lynch proof right now or is it like my modifier where it is if I acheive top rank
Modifier if I get to the rank. Read the OP in DP1.