I’m totally fine bringing the parrot off the bench
Greyparrot might not be the best but he’s active at least
/in as long as Rex, Casey, and Magoroth aren’t playing.
Don’t hate ‘em but we need active players.
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/5/2026 at 12:54 PM (post #25)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/5/2026 at 11:29 AM (post #24)
Good game all. I feel really bad for winning this especially because of a no lynch in LyLo.
I feel town really deserved the game Mag1c especially deserves the w. Perfect solve d1.
submit the elo
Gay!
Originally Posted by Mikal on 9/5/2026 at 11:14 AM (post #12)
Breaking from mafia. All the games lately either seem like the game is not balanced with intense power roles that make no sense or we get a good game and a lot of people dont put in effort and a pure innactives win or lose it. Its consistent with almost every recent game. Having to vote someone or not vote the guy who has not played with 0 behvaior tells. That or wild roles
Traditional mafia feels like its gone and these recent games have just not been fun. This is not host issues outside of the wild power roles and no balance but genuine effort to be present in the game and at least post
enjoy your break man
I don't know what to think about the balance of this one.
Yakuza did force us to look at behavior/incentives and not claims so there's that. Only two investigatives (thoth and I (I kind of count)), a miller, anonymous voting, doctor, a vanilla.
Banana would've let us know about the yakuza ahead of time if we voted yes. The miller doesn't harm too much, although the redirect to push a false result is there. But the SoP is there too. But having a hard cop and the ability to see into scum chat can be powerful. The doctor could've been strong.
The anonymous voting role is interesting but can be played around. Not that big of a deal.
Town had some power, scum had some. I think I like the balancing this game, as wild as that sounds.
Only critique: Mikal's role. His role should've been 1x even night imo.
Originally Posted by Banana on 9/5/2026 at 11:03 AM (post #1)
scum wins, scum was kohai and pie. lunatic was yakuzad.
most pms already posted but if you wanna know someones role lmk ill post it.
sorry to see it end in a no lynch... :/
just post every role pm again please
if you have the night actions on hand, I'd love to see those too
you had one job
Love ya tho <3
but fuck man this sucks
cmon dude please i am begging you
I put all this work into the game and I do not wanna see it end like this. If you vote me that's one thing, gg. But if I lose to you not even voting you can go fuck yourself.
FIVE MINUTES
what tf are you doing??????
TEN MINUTES
CMON DUDE
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 10:27 AM (post #1141)
This was the defense I said I recalled. Yes, everyone is town, except the recruit. But #436, when you call Mikal "probably town," you're treating him like he couldn't be the recruit. It's TMI.
I mean if you really want to pick apart that with semantics, you could spin it however you want. I am not willing to account for the recruit target over hunting for the known scum member. I explained why I town read mikal for his claim accuracy to the role, plus how the role doesn't make sense being on the scum team. He could only be a recruit if scum, was my point.
And you clearly weren't thinking about that when writing #436. You don't just say "you're probably town" based on mathematical probability. You say it when you townread someone. I don't know how you can townread a slot that has just been replaced so early, and buying the claims means nothing when he could've been recruited.
And I don't find this to be a towny approach. Again, townies know that they could die. So townies are going to do what analysis they can before going out. Not just for the whole Pie+Kohai thing, but also for what happens after Pie is lynched. You not wanting to look into the recruits is exactly my point. You were convinced Pie was scum, you knew he was the lynch, and yet instead of moving on and working on the next steps for town, you sat on your laurels.
All this talk about me not finding the recruit, but you waffled about making a decision for 2 days into LYLO about the recruit. You can't act like you weren't pretending to be phased by the Yakuza lynch then all of a sudden act holier than thou about others not being able or willing to solve it immediately. My focus was pie, who I was pretty damn confident was scum. It's not in my hands to solve the whole game by dp2, and if I died as a vanilla town got 100% value from my role.
Nope. I've been analyzing to find the recruit since DP2. Because that's where the game was headed after a Pie lynch. If I died in the night, I would've left a legacy for town to read. It about being phased or knowing anything for sure, it's about taking the time to think about these thingfs, analyzing and putting thoughts down.
I wasn't fully buying into his role, but yes, I was noting there was a real chance he could've been town. His claimed role had matched some of his DP1 behavior. And yes, he was the obvious target for framing.
But that's only a possibility. He also had really scummy behavior around Kohai, and seemingly (in hindsight, clearly) pasted part of a post of his from scum chat. I had resolved to hammer him if someone else didn't do it. I just decided to use the rest of time in the DP to get my thoughts out before hammering.
I mean at that point you probably thought pie wasn't worth saving anymore. You probably initially wanted to vote with him thinking there was a real shot at getting a mislynch that you could explain your way out of, but when you saw the crowd wasn't leaning that way, pussied out.
I don't pussy out of stuff like that. You don't believe that. I didn't try to get the crowd moving in any direction. I gave my thoughts out. And with it being such a decent test of Pie, you'd think I'd want to go with Pie on his idea, convince town. But nope. I let Pie die. I got my thoughts out. Because I was interested in the next phase, one I might die. Remember my claim and all the behavior around it? Same deal there if you're reading this Magoroth.
This is pedantic. We can argue about what counts as alphaing up, but the point is that you engage people directly. I only brought up last game to add to my point; it's not the point itself.
But I just proved that your example of last game isn't the same thing as what you are attempting to accuse me of now, showing it's a completely convoluted point.
It is, even if you don't recognize it. You're trying to play semantics, but I'm talking about you engaging peoiple directly, puffing you chest out. Doesn't matter if it's offense or defense. DP2 you sat in the back and did nothing. You didn't dispriove a thing.
You can only switch away from Pie if the rest of town does. Otherwise, town calls you out for switching up.
I'm not saying you're scummy for pushing Pie, I'm saying I'm not giving you town credit for it. The thing I'm calling you scummy for is not doing much to explore who the recruit could be.
You didn't know who the recruit was either until literally yesterday, so what did "exploring" do? If anything exploring the recruit seems more like setting up mislynches. Like you did with mikal lol
Gets your thoughts down, leaves a legacy, gives you the ability to come back to your own thoughts later and re-evaluate. Are you expecting townies not to givew thoughts and analyze? lol by that logic MAgoroth and I are both scum.
You said earlier this game that analytical Mag1c is town, but now analytical Mag1c is setting up mislynches? lol
This is the one thing you gave yes. But it's not much at all. It's just random shade at Magoroth. At a time when Pie could've easily been fake distacing with Magoroth. You didn't explore anyone else or give thoughts on anyone else until DP3. But DP2 was the towny time to do it.
Because you say it is? Hard dis-agree. Im not divulging in WIFOM that could distract from a scum lynch when there is plenty of time to do that in further day phases. If I die, that's in the rest of towns hands. Town aren't expected to try and solve the whole game days in advance in the off chance they die, in fact they rarely do.
It doesn't distract from the lynch at hand. You push Pie and then you analyze who Pie recruited. It treats the Pie lynch lie a foregone conclusion, which is what I would've expected from town Lunatic who has been on Pie all game. But you didn't do that.
Yes I agreed with you on that specific point, but you drawing so much attention to it to me specifically reads like buddying.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything, because I genuinely did not understand how he was town confirmed off of that, and maybe you picked up on something with it I didn't. Hardly buddying.
Technically possible, I'll grant that. But it feels so much like double speak. That's the vibe I got off it.
To an extent, this is valid. But then if it's a bad move, then he could do it. FMPOV, it's 50/50 whether he went for Magoroth or you, two options that I wouldn't have considered. So the WIFOM above the WIFOM is less about who doesn't seem like a good option, but more about which of the two bad options, chosen to throw town off, is more likely to carry the rest of the game. And that's you.
I mean the whole thing is complete wifom, its just the wifom you choose to believe, because it supports your narrative. I hard disagree that I am the best recruit target in this scenario. Also me and pie have very different mafia playstyles. You on the other hand work way better with him than I do, and are probably one of the best scum players on the site. I can see scum pie recruiting you all day.
It being wifom is no excuse to engage in it. The whole point of the game is wifom. The whole point of this game is mindgames. You can't hand waive away mindgames by calling out mindgames.
The way you deal with WIFOM, is you find the WIFOM above the WIFOM, the angle scum never considered. You look at the incentives. And on a higher level, that leads to you.
From Magoroth's POV, I can see why he'd consider me. On Pie's incentives, that's fair. I fully admitted that to him earlier. My towncase to him lies elsewhere.
Sure, but if Pie can get the rest of town to townread him, you can easily stop sussing Pie as well. It was a desperate situation for Pie.
I mean by that logic, he kind of did get close to lynching mago, a couple people mentioned supporting him. I stayed true to lynching him that whole time. You didn't. You are accidentally making the case for yourself being scum here.
Two people can have the same argument. Are you going to deny that I've had plenty of my own argments?
This is a read on Pie as much as it is on you btw. Distancing is the level one WIFOM play. Fake distancing someone is the level two play. Pie is doing everything he can to throw town off; he's not going to go for level one, he's going to go for whatever thinks is the exact level above what town is thinking. Wheh it comes to such hard distancing, it's proven that town doesn't usually think into the second level.
Pie was the heaviest suspect at the end of day one, and the pressure picked RIGHT back up at start of dp2. It got worse when thoth revealed he was guilty. If you have a guilty on you, and your only argument was "I was framed" you know you are cooked. Getting a mislynch off on literally anyone before you die is the ONLY play pie can make.
Yes, so maybe he went for Magoroth then, with the backup of it looking like fake distancing? That wasn't on your mind. Instead you called out distancing between magoroth and pie, trying to go along with the plan
and i don't have time to respond to the rest of that
@mago for the last sentrence of that last post.
Bottom line:
If I were really trying to save Pie as Lunatic alleges, I wouldn't be exploring possibilities. I would be pinging everyone in the thread with all the reasons Pie must absolutely be town. I would be pinging everyone, telling them to vote Magoroth.
Instead, I didn't vote Magoroth, nor did I try to convince town do to so.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 10:00 AM (post #1133)
You've got an hour left. I trust you to make the right decision. Magic played this one as well as he could, but he tried to save pie day phase two, and tried to use shoddy reasoning around his results to paint mikal as scum. While mikal didn't do himself any favors, magic had the worst argument for lynching him out of anyone. He was willing to vote based on a coin flip yesterday, and is now coming out of nowhere with a case on me that I bussed pie, despite my logic being consistent with my dp1 logic about pie. He had to convolute a case against me because he had nothing, but was forced into making a decision because he needs a mislynch here.
If you look at wylted last day phase he was suspecting magic, which is why magic had to kill wylted going into LYLO. Magic couldn't risk that bias against him in the most critical phase of the game for scum to win.
I had many arguments for lynching Mikal and the one you had awas one I gave too. And I stopped pressing Mikal on my results by the end of the DP, Wylted proved that wrong.
I did not try to save Pie, I was exploring possibilites.
And your consistency on Pie means nothing when scum Lunatic has to be bussing Pie there, unless Pie can get himself townread by the rest of town.
And that last part is part of why Lunatic and Pie opted to kill Wylted over you.
WE HAVE ONE HOUR LEFT WHERE TF ARE YOU
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 7:08 AM (post #1123)
Do you find it interesting that magic wanted to put the decision to a coin toss, then out of nowhere just decides to make a deicion after a text wall? Seems he wasn't all that undecided after all. I think he was just hoping me or you would 1 v 1 each other first and make it easy for him, and when that didn't happen he got impatient and convoluted some reasons to vote me lol.
My thought about the coin toss was my thought at the time. It was how I felt about the situation. My wording wasn;t that I was going to flip a coin, but that I might.
If I can’t figure it out tomorrow, I am genuinely flipping a coin.
-Me
"If I can't figure it out tomorrow." The big analysis was always coming. Text wall it may be, it's not out of nowhere lol.
By far your weakest argument; it's like you're grasping for whatever you can at this point.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 9:55 AM (post #1131)
Again, it's easy to be on Pie when:
-You know he's scum
I knew he was scum dp1, it was blatantly obvious when kohai wouldn't vote for him at EOD
-Switching up and townreading him would look scummy (unless the rest of town does so)
So scum reading scum is scummy, and what, your town read on him was townie? lol okay
Not saying scum reading scum is scummy. I'm saying that you shouldn't be given town cred for it, given the incentives scum Lunatic would have at the time.
You are scummy for not doing much to look into anyone else, beyond what happens after we lynch Pie.;
-You can't vote him, so your bussing is limited in how much it harms Pie
I was an active voice against him, regardless. Blame mikal for taking away my voting power. I pretty publicly said I would never support a mago lynch over pie in any circumstance, and there was always a real possibility mago was lynched there. I never considered it once.
My point remains. You didn't do much to address other things going on, help town out in case you died in the night.
Because kohai was dead, and pie was about to be lynched. Anything else is pure wifom about the recruit. If anything analyzing vote analysis and who supported him or was against him is the best thing town can do. Ironically you supporting pie before he got lynched is what town should have looked at. Wylted did, and he died. lol
Again, I wasn't supporting Pie. That's a blatant rewriting of the history. I was noting a possibility. If Pie had somehow flipped town, my thoughts would have been helpful to town.
And yes anything about the recruit is pure WIFOM. But you have to get into it DP3, why not get a head start DP2, in case you die in the night? Town Lunatic is confident Pie is scum, and that Pie going to be the lynch, and knows that town Lunatic could die in the night. So why not analyze the recruit then? No reason for town Lunatic not to do so.
Magoroth and I both behaved like we knew we could die. You behaved like you knew you weren't going to die.
Mago was scum's mislynch target, we know that now because he hasnt hammered and is thus confirmed town, so mago was never dying. And how did you act like you knew you were going to die? Im gonna need some explanation here because this point is bad.
Pretending not to understand things, eh? I didn't act like I knew I was going to die, I acted like I *could* die. And I did that by delaying the DP to give out my thoughts on all the incentives on who would recruit who. I went out of my way to give my thoughts on the next steps for town, after the Pie lynch, unlike you.
And yeah no shit Mago is lock town now. But when campring the two of you that wasn't a certainty lol.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 1:40 AM (post #1119)
Meanwhile, Lunatic:
#436 Just a fast clear for no reason. I receall his defense when I asked him about this. But how do you not thyink about the possibility of Mikal being yakuza'd here?
You left out my response to this: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?page=24&comment_number=688
From my POV he could only have been the recruit. The role made perfect sense with the character plus kohai had already given pie up by association by not hammering him at the end of dp1. Town kohai goes for pie any day there, instead of just conienently dis-appearing and not responding to people's pings. I wasn't buying kohai was that dead set on rex, he just wanted a mislynch literally anywhere else but pie. With a kohai+pie scum team in mind, everyone is town except the recruit.
This was the defense I said I recalled. Yes, everyone is town, except the recruit. But #436, when you call Mikal "probably town," you're treating him like he couldn't be the recruit. It's TMI.
The rest of his DP2 is interesting to me. He's obviously swinging his dick around against Pie, but with everyone else he's cool as a cucumber. He doesn't inquire much into anyone but Pie. It feels like he doesn't feel any pressure to get his reads out before being nightkilled. Now sure Thoth and Magoroth were more likely at the time, but you always want to inquire, grill people more just in case. And he doesn't really do that.
Really doesn't make sense to hunt for a recruit when you already know the OG scum team. I said "The one thing I can agree with pie on is that we should be hunting the OG scum now, and looking into the recruits later."
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?page=20&comment_number=576
And I don't find this to be a towny approach. Again, townies know that they could die. So townies are going to do what analysis they can before going out. Not just for the whole Pie+Kohai thing, but also for what happens after Pie is lynched. You not wanting to look into the recruits is exactly my point. You were convinced Pie was scum, you knew he was the lynch, and yet instead of moving on and working on the next steps for town, you sat on your laurels.
I didn't want to distract any discussion away from pie to focus on pure wifom, knowing pie is likely to sneak himself out of a lynch. At least I wasn't buying into pies fake role like you were lol.
I wasn't fully buying into his role, but yes, I was noting there was a real chance he could've been town. His claimed role had matched some of his DP1 behavior. And yes, he was the obvious target for framing.
But that's only a possibility. He also had really scummy behavior around Kohai, and seemingly (in hindsight, clearly) pasted part of a post of his from scum chat. I had resolved to hammer him if someone else didn't do it. I just decided to use the rest of time in the DP to get my thoughts out before hammering.
Yes alphaing up against a scumread is Lunatic's town meta. I had him do it with me last game to get Mikal to townread him. But the fact that he doesn't really do anything like that against anyone else feels meh. It's easy to alpha up on Pie when he knows Pie is scum. Even easier when he can't add a vote to hurt Pie. And yeah he could try and speak in Pie's defense, but that would look sus. Better to just wait and see if Pie can get himself townread. Even then, he still has to secure two more mislynches.
1.I didn't "alpha up" to you last game. I even told you in the scum chat that game that we were doing weak ass distancing. At most I was just defending myself from you, it was hardly similar to my read on pie which was purely based on behavioral inconsistencies and logical inconsistencies against thoth vs kohai.
This is pedantic. We can argue about what counts as alphaing up, but the point is that you engage people directly. I only brought up last game to add to my point; it's not the point itself.
2.That doesn't explain why my read is exactly the same as it was dp1, with absolutely 0 deviance. It's almost like I am just town and been pressing the same read I had since I had to pull teeth to try and get pie lynched dp1, and no one was listening to me. Again your reads weren't consistent, so its kind of interesting you use me being right about pie as an argument that I am scum lol. Kind of damned if I do damned if I don't type of argument.
You can only switch away from Pie if the rest of town does. Otherwise, town calls you out for switching up.
I'm not saying you're scummy for pushing Pie, I'm saying I'm not giving you town credit for it. The thing I'm calling you scummy for is not doing much to explore who the recruit could be.
Technically true, but where's your main theory Lunatic?
What exactly are you asking? The post you linked is pretty straightforward. Nothing crazy, we all should have been suspecting a distancing play there.
This is the one thing you gave yes. But it's not much at all. It's just random shade at Magoroth. At a time when Pie could've easily been fake distacing with Magoroth. You didn't explore anyone else or give thoughts on anyone else until DP3. But DP2 was the towny time to do it.
Lunatic's post to me about being confused with why Magoroth thinks he should be townread read like he's trying to lead his buddy in a direction. But Magoroth thinking he's oh so towny for that is weird
So I am buddying you, but in the very next sentence you agree with my point that it doesn't clear him?
Yes I agreed with you on that specific point, but you drawing so much attention to it to me specifically reads like buddying.
And that leads more to Lunatic than it does to Magoroth.
And that's the exact WIFOM pie would expect people to use, which is precisely why he wouldn't do it, or why it would be a bad move.
To an extent, this is valid. But then if it's a bad move, then he could do it. FMPOV, it's 50/50 whether he went for Magoroth or you, two options that I wouldn't have considered. So the WIFOM above the WIFOM is less about who doesn't seem like a good option, but more about which of the two bad options, chosen to throw town off, is more likely to carry the rest of the game. And that's you.
My read on Pie's plan is that he recruited Lunatic to remove one person sussing him.
Except for I didn't ever stop sussing him lol
Sure, but if Pie can get the rest of town to townread him, you can easily stop sussing Pie as well. It was a desperate situation for Pie.
Lunatic calls out the potential distancing between Pie and Magoroth, helping the plan. Should Pie go down here, Lunatic has a target he can eventually make use of in a 1v4, if town agrees they are distancing.
Now you are echoing the same argument mikal made, which is funny because I've been townreading him despite that, and even saying that its highly possible that pie was attempting a last minute hail mary.
Two people can have the same argument. Are you going to deny that I've had plenty of my own argments?
This is a read on Pie as much as it is on you btw. Distancing is the level one WIFOM play. Fake distancing someone is the level two play. Pie is doing everything he can to throw town off; he's not going to go for level one, he's going to go for whatever thinks is the exact level above what town is thinking. Wheh it comes to such hard distancing, it's proven that town doesn't usually think into the second level.
DP4 comes, and Magoroth enters without a tunnel on me. Instead, he's openminded. So Lunatic plays along. He has two ways to win. One, take advantage of my push on Mikal from last DP. Two, buddy with me against Magoroth. I've townread him up to this point. Plus, him being against Pie all game has got to be good for some towncred, right?
This arugment works all three ways for all of us lol. Doubly so for you, before you voted me.
My point is that what I think happened is that you were hoping Magoroth would tunnel me. And if that fails, you buddy up to me, which is why you went out of your way to point out MAgoroth's self clear attempt to me. And if that doesn't work, then it's a good old-fashioned Mexican standoff, where you can try to use you being on Pie all game for town cred (even if it's not a towny as you assert- you obviously can use try and use it to convince MAgoroth)
and smooth talker Lunatic is scum Lunatic."
Dont think ive ever been called a smooth talker lol interesting take.
Well, kinda yeah. You didn't really push or pressure or press or investigate anyone but Pie last DP. Yes there was the shot at Magoroth for potential distancing, but the exception was so rare it proves the pattern.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/5/2026 at 9:02 AM (post #1128)
Meanwhile, Lunatic didn’t do much of that. He just kinda kicked back and said, welp Pie’s the lynch, see you boys tomorrow
The only other thing we could possibly do is speculate about recruits. Kohai was dead and pie was scum by association. Your faulting me for not guessing the recruit when you yourself couldn’t even come to a decision about it until almost 2 days into lylo?
You say I do almost nothing productive; what’s more productive then being on board both scum the entire game? At least I was consistent with it.
Again, it's easy to be on Pie when:
-You know he's scum
-Switching up and townreading him would look scummy (unless the rest of town does so)
-You can't vote him, so your bussing is limited in how much it harms Pie
And you were town DP1 when scumreading Kohai. There's no points there either.
My point remains. You didn't do much to address other things going on, help town out in case you died in the night. And Magoroth did. To towncase myself a bit here, I analyzed the incentives of who every player would recruit if they were OG scum. Magoroth and I both behaved like we knew we could die. You behaved like you knew you weren't going to die.
REMINDER: DP ends in two hours.
(I’m not losing to you going inactive and not even casting a vote. I refuse.)
Just woke up btw, so I haven’t looked at Lunatic’s responses much yet. I’m working on responses.
Just as a reminder the DP ends at 11am US EST.
That’s two hours from now.
Originally Posted by Magoroth on 9/5/2026 at 1:27 AM (post #1118)
Actually the better question is why did y'all not vote me? Obviously this question is directed at Mag1c since I think he voted before Luna
I detailed it in my big post.
If if were to pick a few sticking points, here they are:
-Pie has two goals. Survive DP2, and have a teammate that can carry him the rest of the game. Lunatic is the best option. Yes, Lunatic has to bus Pie for the cred, but if Pie can convince me he’s town, then I probably lead town in townreading him. And then Lunatic doesn’t have to vote Pie. If I Pie doesn’t succeed, then Lunatic can still just bus Pie, and ride that for the rest of the game. He was more townread than you.
-And no offense to you Magoroth, but Lunatic is better at this game than you; he’s among the site’s best. Pie needs a heavy hitter. So comparing you two directly, he’s the better option.
-The behavior DP2. To me this is the most pivotal DP for comparing you two. Town behavior is such that a player will always find ways to try and be productive, because they know they *could* die in the night, even if they aren’t the likely target.
I saw it in you when reading your DP2, you thought about a tailor for a bit, pressured me with a vote, said you found Thoth completely clear, and gave many other scattered thoughts, directly talking to a good few people.
Meanwhile, Lunatic didn’t do much of that. He just kinda kicked back and said, welp Pie’s the lynch, see you boys tomorrow. Yes there was a moment when he said Mikal was town at the start of the DP, and yes he said you felt you and Pie were distancing. Even if we ignore how scummy those things were, they were *rare* moments of him doing something productive. The exception proves the pattern.