What does it mean to derail the game?
What does it mean to derail the game?
In
I'm not shrinking my setup, but I'm 100% okay with you running a smaller setup ahead of me, and I will likely play it. I'm not sure how to rearrange the mod queue to accomodate this, but I will gladly let whoever is in charge of that figure it out as long as I stay near the top after your game is done.
could it possibly start with 7
Would you drive around town in a car that had three missing tires?
Have you made setups on other sites?
Yes, although not as complicated as this.
No.
I would love to, and I offered a lookover to at least one person on here, but looking over it would disqualify you from playing, and with a playerbase this small, I need all the players I can get. I have, however, tested the setup 'by hand' enough that I think it is reasonably balanced, although I could be spectacularly wrong.
I am mildly insulted at the implication that I am an inexperienced player, unless you meant that even experienced players usually seek peer-review, which I am fairly sure they do not, at least on here.
I mean common sense just says mods should warn their players. You don’t need any enforcement of this from any site mods, however. If someone keep making bad games, people here are gonna stop playing their games.
What if the mod at the top of the mod queue has such a bad reputation that nobody wants to play their game? Does the next mod post signups while leaving the current one high and dry?
Again, I don't like changing the setup after posting signups, but I'm trying to make it so you won't need to treat each night phase as two sub-nights. I'll see what I can do.
I should probably clarify why I got rid of the hidden anti-claim mechanics. It was not because I thought they would be too powerful in the context of that setup. It was because they would be so powerful if triggered that I counterbalanced it by making scum weak without them. If people followed my advice to claim with extreme caution, town would have had it too easy.
In fairness, I did warn people about it, and it was probably less mean than Kohai's omni-target permanent roleblock in 90's-00's nostalgia.
Lunatic also signed up, and whiteflame and Wryly could be listed as backups.
Thank you Savant for editing the OP to reflect this change.
Elaborating on posts #16 and #22: I decided to get rid of my main form of anti-claim, which was that scum could trigger one player's hidden anti-claim ability each night if they correctly stated their character. I had things like making a dayvig's gun backfire and Dreamer results include three townies. (At least one of those is an example and was never in the setup.) The more I thought about it, the more I thought I should give them some less destructive anti-claim tools along with information about fake-claims. This change has led me to rebalance the setup, something I'm not happy about doing after posting signups, but there you have it.
But yeah the recent few games have kind of been chaotic leaning into disastrous imo, so its caused me a bit of burnout as well.
I've been rather stressed myself walking the tightrope between making this setup wildly non-standard and also balanced.
It looks like the regulars are all mafiaed out.
I'm not smiling that it's during my turn in the mod queue, but I understand.
1) Vader
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whiteflame
Kohai
Fair enough I guess, claiming is a pretty effective strategy for progressing a solve. I just really don't like anticlaim mechanics. I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere without claims progress.
I gave every character their own hidden anti-claim mechanic, and I thought it was creative and cool, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was too powerful. Scum still have some other anti-claim tools.
Editing posts is on a timer I think
A timer that lets you do it before a certain amount of time has passed or after time has passed? Either way, I can't edit the OP. If I click on the three dots next to the post number, the only option I get is "Mark as Offensive", which is redundant for all my posts anyway.
Doesn’t that mean the mod is incompetent?
I don't think so. More like fake-claiming scum have a hard time concocting fake-claims that fit precisely into the puzzle, even with mod help. That problem gets worse the more complex the game is, and this is not Werewolf 101.
That said, since I wrote, "Anti-claim mechanics in this game are pervasive, vicious, and may include bastard elements", I've toned it down significantly in favor of information on fake-claims, although plenty of anti-claim is still there. I would edit the OP to reflect this, but I don't seem able to.
Genuinely what’s the purpose of anti-claim? Can someone explain this to me?
From what I've seen, forcing everyone to claim to solve the game early can be terrifyingly effective even if scum have decent fake-claims. Anti-claim exists to weaken that meta. I gave scum a weapon specifically against early solves.
If I understand correctly, a player's Elo rating is equivalent to their expected winrate against a player whose Elo rating is a certain amount relative to theirs, e.g., 150 points lower or 300 points higher. Since Mafia is a team game with a large random component, I doubt that any player will ever have a win-rate above a certain percentage that's nowhere close to 100%. So isn't the possible Elo range effectively restricted to a few hundred points on either side of 1500?
Hey man, I don't think you're supposed to post in games when you're not playing.
Sounds like a bastard thing to do.
Fake flips are 1000% bastard, except for Tailor, which is borderline. I thought I mentioned this, but forgot.
I don't see how anyone can consider recruiters or cults on par with being told your role is X when it's actually Y.
Given that I'm much less experienced than most players here, let alone on MafiaScum or MafiaUniverse, my opinions might not be worth much, but I'll give them anyway.
I disagree that alignment-changing roles are necessarily bastard. They're definitely not bastard if the possibility of alignment change is publicly announced by the start of the game. I'm used to playing with cults and recruiters because those are common in my Discord playgroup, and I'm not familiar with the gameplay cultures of MS/MU, but I'm guessing that they consider these bastard because their metagames evolve over geologic time and cults were seen as against the spirit of Mafia in decades past.
Scum editing role flips, i.e., Tailor, is borderline bastard. The problem with requiring games with this to be declared bastard is that announcing its existence makes it much weaker.
Directly lying in role PMs is definitely bastard. Hidden mechanics, which my upcoming Culture game will have, are not always bastard. I wouldn't call it bastard if someone had a hidden Bulletproof, but a hidden Paranoid Gun Owner is 100% bastard. I do think it would be bastard for role flips to not reveal all hidden mechanics.
My tentative proposal is that we compile two lists of bastard mechanics: ones that are totally bastard, like outright lies in role PMs; and ones that are kinda-bastard, like cults and Tailor. These lists might never be comprehensive, nor should they aim to be. Moderators can use the lists to decide whether their game is not bastard, kinda-bastard, or totally bastard, with games being classified by their most bastardy element. Mods can declare their game as any level of bastard or say nothing. Whether players should refuse to play in games where the mods do not reveal the bastardization quotient is something I think we can figure out over time.
The first game I ran was a simple setup on Discord. This is the second game I've run, and some modding will be done through Discord, but it is the antipode of simple.
The Culture series, written by Iain M Banks (1954-2013), consists of nine novels and a novella published from 1987 to 2012. The titular Culture is a post-scarcity anarchic utopia which is widely honored in "who would in a fight" debate communities as the most powerful faction in science fiction without time travel or comic-book-esque reality warping. Although the first published installment is Consider Phlebas (1987) and Look to Windward (2000) is a loose sequel, the books may be read in any order, and I agree with the traditional advice that newcomers should start with The Player of Games (1988).
Incidentally, I have spent the past two months or so building a Werewolf setup based on The Player of Games, but, among other challenges, it would require several times more players than I expect to get on here.
Characters in this game are drawn from different entries in the series. I do not guarantee that every book is represented, nor that the books are close to equally represented. There is sort of a theme split.
Standard rules apply, e.g., no editing or deleting posts, no ciphers or cryptography, no communicating about the game outside the game.
I prefer to do mod communications through Discord, but DebateCraft messages work too. Please make sure I have you added as a friend on Discord. You can message me your friend tag if needed.
I need ten players minimum and have built the setup with ten players in mind, but the more the merrier, and I can rebalance it if I get more than ten players.
1. Vader
2. Pie
3. Kohai
4. Lunatic
5. Casey_Risk
6. RexFavilla
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Backup
1. Whiteflame
2. Castin
Thoth's main mistake was volunteering information like a claim out of the blue when it's not a policy claim and nobody asked for it. I don't think this is good to do as scum or town. It is an especially bad thing to do as scum when you have a role which is absolutely critical to your team winning and you need to survive the DP to fire it off.
Now that you say that: In the unfathomable world where my Leprechaun claim was real, it probably would have been wiser for me to shut up and keep diverting night-kills while town gathered information.
Also I did tell thoth multiple times I didn't like the leprechaun claim. I was too lazy to help him find another claim though and he was really confident about it. I didn't know he was going to claim it the way he did, and when he equated his character to liking gold and therefor being a leprechaun, that was probably the worst way to sell it. But he seemed really attached to the claim, so I just let him do him. Should have drew a harder line in the sand on that, I knew that role would be seen as scummy. Most roles in this game were pretty basic, regular roles, maybe absent the brainwash and poisoner, I knew leprechaun would stand out like a sore thumb. Told thoth the same. Oh well.
Poor communication kills. Before I claimed it, I got the sense that you thought the Leprechaun claim was risky but clever and worth doing, and your only qualms were that it semi-CC'd the Doctor you scrubbed from Shining and that you thought the three-person variant might be scummier because it complicated an already unusual claim in a game where all the town roles we knew about were basic.
Rex is right that we should have played DP2 ultra-cautiously so I could recruit. I wish I had known that Mikal was bullshitting about it being impossible for a lore-peasant like myself to know who was recruitable.
Leprechaun standing out like a sore thumb? Well, yeah, he's an Irish midget who wears all green and lives at the end of a rainbow, what were you expecting?
I mean you still won that game.
We did, and Magic pulled plenty of weight, but we won in spite of arguing, not because of it.