They indeed gave town a whole extra day phase. If Thoth is town, they either targeted Mago as well, which also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, or they were really confident they could get Thoth mislynched DP3 and also win at MYLO.
I would've thought the best play for handling Mago from a scum perspective is to keep him alive until LYLO and get him mislynched. Then his vote can't really bite them in the ass at the clinch.
Just a quick passing thought. Is it possible that scum straight-claimed, and one of the claimed characters is scum because they were sided with the Empire at some point during the show or its background? Based on what I understand from y'all, no outstanding character claims are weak enough that scum were liable to even ask about them unless they asked as a last-ditch resort and got lucky.
Interesting thought. I know Luthen Rael used to serve the Empire. He was ordered to commit an atrocity and had a crisis of conscience that ultimately led to his joining the Rebellion.
Darth Vader makes no appearance in Andor. Andor is supposed to be a smaller, more grounded storyline about characters adjacent to the main Star Wars stage. The highest ranking Imperial character who appears on the show is I think Krennic?
I kind of thought the remaining scum would be Dedra or Syril. I'm not sure Petitioner fits with either of them. Will have to dive into their wiki pages.
I gotta hit the hay folks. I was hoping we'd have some more progress by now but I'll catch up in the morning when hopefully Banana and Thoth have given their input
This DP is moving slower than I'd like. wylted is probably screaming at us from the peanut gallery
Really want to hear from Banana and Thoth here
Lol, I really misunderstood that. That's weaker than I thought and is more believable.
Would you be game for Lunatic's plan
It really never occurred to me that Mago's vote would count toward parity; that's... shocking to me, frankly. We'll never start a day phase at 1v1 so it's moot, but still.
Trying to make my tired brain process this. If we follow Lunatic's plan, we get two shots to guess right. Problematic, because no one is exactly town locked for me right now. We would have to whittle this down to two. Really want to townread Lunatic for suggesting putting himself on the chopping block, this would have to be a hell of a bluff
I thought you could pick a new role from the list each time you select a target
Already asked Savant, he confirmed
So it wasn't listed in your role PM as 1x Watcher, 1x Roleblocker, 1x Bulletproof? It was just the first two and then BP as a passive?
It can confirm me, again, requires me to use it properly however. I have been hesitant to claim the last one because it would potentially implicate someone else and I don't want anyone scum reading them for that reason.
Color me intrigued
I need you to read that in Tim Curry's voice
Sorry, specifically Tim Curry in Rocky Horror
Decent point that Thoth claimed after wylted, but I sort of just meant an even night role makes sense if Savant also supplied an odd night role.
Lunatic is clearly leaning Thoth. Are you also leaning that way, then?
Would like to know your opinions on town having both an Inventor and a JOAT
Would also like your reads on whiteflame
They could also have just targeted Magoroth right along with Thoth, though that's questionable given the Restless Spirit role. They'd have to be pretty sure that Mago would vote in a way that helps them to go to that extent.
He was a mislynch target, so I'll argue they had slim reason to NK him other than to incriminate Thoth or for Thoth to mount his "I did nightvig!" defense. As for Mago's vote, either they keep him alive and he lives to vote on LYLO, or they kill him and he still votes in LYLO. There was no way to remove his voting power, just to remove him from counting toward parity.
It would essentially just be a fake claim to cover for an NK. The Even Night aspect gave him a reprieve from proving his role NP1 and will give him another NP3, so we'd only have to buy it for NP2. On townreading Wylted, I get your point, but that's a WIFOM argument. It would not be a first for many of us, myself included, to play as scum by strongly townreading another player who others were sussing. As for VTLing Kohai, it's practically a given at this point that someone bussed him, just a question of when and how much.
My scant scum experience does limit my analyses in a lot of ways, so your point about pretending to townread in the POE is noted. You could argue the even night aspect gives scum some reprieve, yes, but I do think his Even Night Vigilante receives some support from wylted's Odd Night Martyr. As for bussing, Thoth was the second to vote Kohai after Rex, which is an early-ish bus -- unless he was simply busy for the rest of the day phase, which is possible.
I think it's fair to have us both in POE for obvious reasons. I'm more skeptical of setting Banana aside. It would not be a first for a mod to give scum a very confirmable role just to ensure they get towncred. It's odd enough that I don't think it's the likeliest explanation, but I can't rule her out yet. She could still have multiple roles we're unaware of.
Her role seems to be basically a Popularizer, so we should just decide on someone for her to Popularize to prove she's not a JOAT. Unless JOATs are sometimes given 2x's in their utility belts, which I've never seen.
The main argument in Luna's favor for me is that he's claimed Luthen. I can't say the JOAT does much to move the needle and I see your point on that.
Luthen, Bix, Mon Mothma, and Saw Gerrera are all solid character claims.
I mean, it's WIFOM all the way down with Kohai. It would be a new low for me as scum to actively tell my partner to flame out like that, but I suppose anything's possible.
Nothing low about it if it cinches a win for the scum team.
You said DP1 there was a certain soft that would've helped you use your role to its best utility, but I'm still unclear on what type of soft you meant
It's plausible that scum waived to incriminate Thoth, though whether they would do that when it gives town a whole extra day phase is something I need to think more on.
It's also possible Thoth is scum, has no night vig, and NK'd Mago so he could push through the argument that he did use it but scum is conspiring to foil his role confirmation. I hesitate to believe that, though. Thoth was pretty firm that wylted was town even when the tide of the vote was going against wylted, and he was the second person to vote Kohai, fairly early in the DP.
Lunatic and whiteflame's roles remain unconfirmed and they are very much in the POE. I am putting banana aside for now. I agree with Lunatic that Chauffeur and Petitioner seem like a weak scum team -- especially considering that would mean town was loaded with an Inventor, day cop, Bodyguard, JOAT, Night Vig, Dead Voter, and Martyr -- unless Banana is a JOAT, and we can still verify that her Petitioner wasn't a 1x.
So that leaves whiteflame and Lunatic, neither of which should have let Kohai fake claim Strengthener.
In Lunatic's case, he may have just been too late to stop the claim, as I've said before; it happened fast after he subbed in. He's marshaled some arguments against this, but they amount to some WIFOM and a few relevant points -- namely that it's a very silly scum claim that he's going to struggle to even confirm. And indeed he watched only himself and roleblocked a dead man. JOAT and Inventor remain an eyebrow-raising combo.
In whiteflame's case, maybe I'm approaching this wrong -- maybe he saw Kohai's demise was inevitable and even advised him to claim Strengthener so he could farm some towncred with a quick hammer. I have to imagine scum!whiteflame cringing when he saw Kohai's "haha I'm scum come in wolf chat Mago" jokes, though.
Will think some more on this.
i cant remove ur vote i can just make it so that someone takes an extra vote to lynch. want me to use it on luna?
Oh okay I misunderstood how it works then
Unvote
I guess you should use it on the strongest townread then so as not to make it harder to lynch potential scum
If I roleblocked him and a kill still went through, that would mean he didn't carry out the kill
Right right right coolcoolcool
I used a 1x roleblock on mago, so if the kill went through we could town confirm him.
"How would that do that," she asked groggily
VTL Lunatic
Can you remove this vote plz
She said she could use it again, just not at MYLO. We'll see, I guess.
I gotta hit the hay. Night, all
why did I capitalize MAGO
I think my brain carried the caps over from MYLO
whiteflame is definitely in my POE, though if he's scum again I'm starting to believe the randomizer just really has it out for him. His role isn't confirmable and there is a possibility Savant didn't put Bix in the game. whiteflame was Kohai's hammer, but a bus there makes a lot of sense. The only sticking point is why whiteflame would let Kohai claim Strengthener.
Justification for being Vigilante is just that I fight against the Empire and some people don't agree with my methods. There's no justification specifically for being even-night.
Very plausible for Saw
Will take those points into consideration
If we mislynch here and Thoth also vigs a townie tonight -- and the NK succeeds -- we're at MYLO tomorrow, or else I would just say let's lynch MAGO right now to narrow the POE
Character justification for Even Night Vigilante?
Both my other two if things play out correctly are technically confirmable.
Technically? Anyway, sounds like good-ish news, depending on the details
Are you kidding me? I would have rage quit as scum by now if kohai was my partner, let alone allow him to claim strengthener in the first place.
That bad? Lol.
I mean, he immediately died as soon as you subbed in, so it's not like you would've had to put up with him long. I have no idea if you would've even had time to enter scum chat, discover he was going to fake claim Strengthener, and stop him from doing it. Probably not; the heat was on him and he was already at L-1.
Don't get me wrong; not tunneling, still very much mulling.
Yes because im known to "YOLO" as scum... I am pretty methodical and careful as scum for the most part, you can ask anyone whose played as scum with me. Also I would actually be putting in the effort for theme analysis. I was also one of the first claims on the board, so unless you think it was a mod provided fake claim...
When I first started playing mafia you were sold to me as a known risk taker, hence my speculation. If I was misled, sorry. Not sure what you mean by theme analysis since the theme was confirmed by Savant.
You definitely were the third to claim, although you were kind of under pressure to. I do give you credit for the quick Luthen Rael claim; either you came up with him fast or Kohai/Skipper had already pinned him down as a fake claim, and it's just so hard for me to believe Luthen isn't in the game... a spymaster is a great character to make a JOAT, too. Is that his justification?
