Specifically the bit about "she wouldn't be unrecruitable, she'd be a perma-vanilla" seemed hair splitty to me.
I'd say being impossible to recruit someone suggests that the person in question rejects participation or already belongs to another organization they cannot leave. There's a difference between that and someone who could theoretically be recruited and simply not have an activated role that results from recruiting.
Also I’ll add to my defense that Mikal gave scum fake claims. Do you really think Mikal would give ascetic as a fake claim?
Open question how many fake claims Mikal gave to scum, though no, I don't think Ascetic is likely to be one of them.
Does Jin-woo not participate in the raid, or at least initially resist participating in it, in the show?
I said that he resisted participating initially, yes.
In my defense if I was scum and needed to get into a guild ascetic is not what I’d claim as this doesn’t help the guild activate a useful PR. If anything it is best if I stay outside a guild where I can be at least confirmed by an investigative role.
claiming ascetic tells the guild who not to recruit
Fair point. It's WIFOM to a degree, especially since Thoth has already claimed a role that just straight up can't get recruited and I think he's scum, but I get that yours wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to claim if you wanted to be recruited.
You're sounding like Mikal in the Suikoden game. The moderator can't justify every role the way you think sounds coolest. All my justifications make more than enough sense and it's clear that you've shifted your tone because you're sheeping Luna or you want to push an easy mislynch.
Love that you're trying to twist this into modpsych. I'm not calling you out for having roles that aren't "cool" and, if someone had never seen the show and knew only the bare minimum from reading your character's Wiki, they might have walked away with the information you gave and just slapped them into a role. I can't imagine that's what Mikal did. Oh, and pretty funny to say I'm sheeping Luna here (one of the few other players who knows enough about this show to speak about your character knowledgeably), or pushing an easy mislynch when I've been one of the most hesitant players in this game to jump on your wagon.
Also I’d say in all the times I’ve seen an informed town role I have never seen it come with a list of names. The only time I’ve ever seen it come with a name is to confirm that person is aligned with town. Not giving a 3 narrow list of people who may be a particular character
Right? It's like he slapped together the Dreamer and Informed role, and it doesn't even make sense thematically.
This seems a bit like splitting hairs and being uncompromising about theme-to-game adaptation.
...splitting hairs? I really don't get this. On every single one of his individual role claims, it's not just slightly off thematically. It's dramatically off. I get if Mikal is taking some liberties to apply certain roles to certain characters, but doing so this heavily three times on the same character? I don't buy it.
Did you see #926?
I did. Like I said directly in response to it, not involving himself in the raid and being distant from the Guilds tracks with the character, but Sung Jin-woo does come to help in the end. The notion that that post automatically makes him a TP is a step further than I'd be willing to take it.
Right now it's looking like Thoth is going to be the lynch today. I'm okay with that, but I'd like to ask everyone here a question. If you had to vote for someone else, who would your choice be, and why?
Alright, coming back to this.
Kohai would be my top pick beyond Thoth. I still really don't like his claim and the more I think about it, the less I like. An activated Ascetic seems like such a weird role since it doesn't really add utility to a Guild, and much as he has since improved the justification, that doesn't really move the needle. It just seems like such a safe claim to go with, both claiming himself and using a role that is both currently unverifiable and would likely not be checked even if he gets recruited.
are any of you Jinwoo? Yes or no.
No. Absolutely not. None of you do this, it is not worth it. We do not need you to make targets of yourselves.
Damn, I just caught up. I was going to talk about thoughts about other players, but Thoth is making it very hard to focus elsewhere. #1316 is the one I'll focus on since it contains everything.
I am unrecruitable. Justification is that I'm not a Hunter.
This is the one part I was kind of townreading earlier because I can't see a way scum would get this role and still be recruited, and it necessarily means you won't be targeted for recruitment. That being said, it doesn't fit the character at all. As others have mentioned, she's not unrecruitable, she just wouldn't be recruited. She's useless to a Guild. It would make more sense if she was just Vanilla with no roles gained on recruitment. And now it's also virtually untestable, given that neither Guild Leader is going to waste the recruitment on you.
I'm the Nurse / backup Doctor (would suck if Airmax is the Doctor and he's not around to at least say this is a point in my defense). Justification is that I want to go to medical school.
Setting aside that a backup Doctor is new to me, it doesn't make sense that you'd become the Doctor after someone else dies. I think Luna pointed out earlier that there are actual healers in the show, people who can use abilities to heal targets. You wouldn't just inherit that simply because you're going to med school. Also, much as you said this could potentially confirm you, I don't see how unless we assume you are the sole protective role upon the death of the real Doctor.
I started with a list of three people and was told that one of them is Jinwoo: Helz, Alyssa, and Rex. Justification is that I'm close to Jinwoo. That's why I thought Alyssa being Jinwoo would explain a lot, because I figured that Jinwoo might have information that pointed to me being innocent.
Well, this one just doesn't help your case at all. Informed is unconfirmable, the list could be drawn randomly, and it doesn't make sense for your character. Why would you be unsure who Jin-woo is? You're his sister. It's not like he has any history of hiding from his sister in the show.
All of this comes together to look, at best, thematically dubious, and, at worst, completely full of shit.
I phrased that poorly, what my theory with that was is essentially that Jin woo is third party and had to mae a choice before the end of dp1 to be able to joint with town, scum or stay independent and maybe the wording of Mikal’s post indicates he made a choice to stay independent. Kind of a shot in the dark theory but it made sense to me as I was reading it.
Alright, that does make more sense. Worth considering.
I thought of this as well, but it could be that Mikal was just busy or from the start decided to announce it mid-DP for theatric timing.
Maybe. It does seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on Jin-woo, I'm just unclear what precipitated it.
First the Helz/wylted reconciliation, now Mes/Luna. This game is finna be downright heartwarming.
Hey, it's kinda nice to see drama go down as the game goes on, nice change of pace (he says knowing we're still in DP1 and likely jinxing us all).
As someone familiar with the show, what do you think of Mes's Korean/Japanese theme split notion?
I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand at least. If there are Japanese Hunters in the mix, that would track with his thought on a theme split. It's possible that scum is just straight up boss monsters. It's also possible that they're human antagonists who have tried to kill Jin-woo, since there are a few of those.
It is tied to something that happened in game because in the show Jin Woo helps on jeju island and Mikal is saying that Jin Woo is actively choosing not to take a side or participate in jeju island. I think there is a third party or something who is Jin Woo and they had to make a choice to joins guild or remain 3p and they chose to remain 3p. Or something like that.
That would be weird, though, since this came up two days into the DP. Setting aside concerns about the theme split and how it would break down without Jin-woo in town, you would have to believe that Jin-woo refused to accept an invite to a Guild, Mikal waited two days in the DP, and then he posted this.
Can monsters join guilds in the show
Guilds are exclusively composed of human beings, so no. If scum are just straight up boss monsters, then their capacity to join a Guild would be surprising and not in line with the show.
My preference is still to VTNL, but I'm also fine with lynching an inactive. The main reason I said I was pro-ending the day is just that I feel like progress has stalled to an extent. I'd agree that hearing more from Shining and Vader would be helpful, and Max of course, but like Pie said, at a certain point it begins to feel like pulling teeth. Though I'll concede that Banana did actually show up and post her reads, which was helpful. In the meantime, though, it feels like we're just waiting for the others to say something. But I guess we do have time, after all. If the town wants to wait, I suppose it's nbd. I just want to see some progress being made.
I'm not categorically opposed to a VTNL, even if I think getting a flip would be more useful. This explanation does help a bit to put your views in context. I'm not expecting Max to post, hence I think he's fine enough as a default lynch at this point, I'm just in no rush to get to it. I do think there is some worthwhile conversation to be had in the meantime, still working on developing my behavioral reads as we type.
The city of Seoul is overrun. Ants from Jeju Island have begun to spread beyond the gate, swarming into the mainland, attacking civilians, adapting, evolving. They can fly now. Something that was never seen before. This is no longer contained. This is no longer just an island. The S-Rank gate that has never been closed has already claimed too many lives, hunters, soldiers, entire raid teams. Now, the world is watching as Korea prepares for one final attempt. Guilds from across the country stand ready, joined by hunters from other nations, all coming together for what may be humanity’s last chance to stop the hive. Every hunter. Every citizen. Every nation. All of it comes down to this. And yet… the world looks toward one man, the one hunter who could change everything. But he refuses. He has no desire to join the raid. No desire to work with any guild. And when you hold that kind of power… why would you?
Alright, so that's ominous...
For context, Sung Jin-woo does canonically show up and is absolutely essential to winning this fight, particularly after an incredibly powerful ant shows up on Juju Island (the Ant King - and yes, for anyone who has seen Hunter X Hunter, it is absolutely cribbing from the Chimera Ant arc), but there is a substantial period of time where he just seems to not care at all and doesn't involve himself in the raid.
Alright, caught up. Going to expand my reads a bit from earlier.
Banana's read list looks good and thorough to me. She tends to be more active generally than she has been as scum as well, so I'm giving her a slight town lean.
I get the push on Wryly to some degree, though I don't see her as "breaking up other people's reads" in the way Wylted does. She's been null to me, and remains in that same boat atm. Wryly tends to ooze town behaviorally regardless of the game she's in and keep a light attitude, and that's what I'm seeing so far.
Really tempted to give Casey a townread since she's been so engaged and responsive, though I can't say I'm leaning in any direction with her so far. Part of that is her desire to just end the DP and take out an inactive. I get the latter to some degree (though there are actual scumreads in play from other players), but the former not so much. Even if none of the inactives post again, I think the notion of ending the DP early is just not great. It's a lot to read through and keep up with, I get it, and there may not be that much to add at this point for those of us who have been active, but I don't think we benefit from just moving on early.
Pie largely looks consistent behaviorally with his past games. His aggressiveness tends to shift up and down whether he's scum or town, and so far, this doesn't look distinct from either meta.
As for Kohai, that claim continues to rub me the wrong way. I get claiming under any amount of pressure, though that's something he'd do regardless of alignment - I do think he's just sensitive to pressure after his recent games. Claiming himself as his character doesn't give him any cover, either, given that that was in the OP. As for the role and justification, they just rub me the wrong way. I don't know if I can put my finger on the problem here, but it all comes off as slightly scummy. That's more of a gutread than anything else, but it's where I'm sitting with him currently.
So this game has a huge advantage for D1 in a single respect. That there is two confirmed town.
What if we get the entire player base on board with sheeping whatever vote one of the two of you decide? This would undercut any Mafia counter train from existing and as a strategy (right or wrong) would place the lynch in the hands of a town.
Do you to feel this is a good idea? Can we pressure players to follow through with this?
This thought had come to mind for me as well. Rare for us to get any mod-confirmed townies off the bat, much less two, so this would at least be a strong consideration for me. If they're united in their picks, I'd be down.
Meant to tag you in the above.
Catching up slowly this morning as I infuse myself with caffeine.
Thoth is still my strongest scumread. I get that Whiteflame says it's not likely to be a fake claim for being so obscure, but then we have to ask why he has something so obscure as town. I still hate the behavior there.
To be clear, I wouldn't say his claim is obscure. If anything, it's obvious. So if he is fake claiming, odds are low he just came up with the character himself and went for it. It's much more likely to be a fake claim given by Mikal. My bit of modpsych there is whether Mikal would give scum a fake claim that stands apart from the actual list of town roles so blatantly by not being a Hunter herself. I did also mention earlier that it would be very strange to give scum a role that doesn't allow them to be recruited, though that requires accepting that that is his role.
I want to come up with a list of top lynch targets, but I'm rapidly losing the ability to keep my eyes open tonight, so I'll endeavor to do so tomorrow. At the very least, for whatever it's worth, I'm caught up on the DP.
With regards to Airmax, much as it could be a Passover thing, he does just tend to be absent for long stretches of time. Love him, but this is just how he plays mafia. I'm not a big fan of just straight up lynching an inactive player, but it might at least be more useful than just VTNLing since we'd have a flip to work with next DP. That being said, if we have an even somewhat common scumread, that's more valuable both as information along the lines Helz has already mentioned (who joins the wagon and who signals intent to do so are important metrics and harder to read when it's just a default lynch due to inactivity) and it's based on something more than absence.
Alright, that's it for me. Later.
Anyway, busy for a bit, will come back to this. For now, that gives me more reason to townread Helz. Thoth I’m a little less sure about, but if he does have a role that actively prevents his recruitment, that would be an odd fit for scum given how many times we’ve been warned that scum can be recruited and how potentially valuable that is for them.
If thats the case I say we drop the subject. Its a waste of time and bloating the thread with players struggling to participate in a game larger than they are use to. If any of you give a shit I am Yoo Jinhoo. Apparently I am a cowardly rich boy that ends up running a guild or something?
Lets get to more productive conversation if thats useless imo.
Fully buy that he’s in this. Another character who is close to Jin-woo, a mid-rank hunter, expected him to be here.
Yeah, there was no need for me to soft that when the soft is so transparent anyway. I'm unrecruitable. If I would have been recruited on night 0, the recruit would have been moved to a player of my choice. I also have two other abilities that I'd rather keep secret for now.
Oh, goes a little further than I expected. Figured you had roles that you could use now and that you wouldn’t gain PRs when recruited.
even though scum has fake claims? They could have character or role claims or both; how does that factor in? Like is the character someone you would/wouldn't expect to be a fake claim?
Yeah, we don’t know if they’re full claims. If we assume they’re character only, I get the push. I don’t expect this character would be a given fake claim unless there are others in town that aren’t Hunters.
Do they start by making her just a stepsister?
Kind of. It’s played for laughs but they really do hammer it into the ground.
If I understand what Thoth is hinting at, am I correct in thinking it would make it even less likely for Mikal to give it as a fake claim
He’s hinting at elements of his claim that go beyond his character at least. I’ll leave it at that.
