whiteflame

To make sure I'm covering my bases, I'll start with the easiest read: Banana.

The early Jamie Tartt claim already stood out as very townie (major character, likely CC), and the Popular + confirmation helped her case, as did a pretty obvious justification. Viewing it as SOP comes off as likely town, too. I just don't see a discussion with Shining yielding an early claim. I've been fooled by confirmed Popular scum before, though, so I'll keep digging. I think the pushback on Wylted's efforts to lynch her looked pretty townie as well, didn't get much of a rise out of her. I think the continued efforts to push back on Mag1c and get a claim last DP read mostly as suspicious town as well, though that's more NAI as I can see her trying to garner this info either way. Regardless, there's more here to support her claim than anyone else, so I'm going lock town and focusing on Wryly and Mag1c as my POE.

Wryly:

Early to softclaim, gave some early cover to Banana's SOP claiming her role. Early reads looked fine, null read on Shining might be a little off in hindsight. Showed hesitance to vote him, calling the VTL a sleepwalk, late to the lynch on both wagons. Was in the middle of the pack for the character claims, softed an "influential but not critical" role (does track). Similar push on Mag1c for the claim to what Banana did. Contributed on the Wylted lynch largely following along similar lines to me save a point about the lack of justification in his claim, which seemed like a fair thing to point out at the time.

Mag1c:

Suggested that the hidden Miller could just be Kohai. Given Kohai's flip, we know it wasn't him, but I think it was fair to surmise this, even if I didn't draw the same one (just because he and I worked that into my setup doesn't mean it's likely here). Early townread on Kohai, pretty strongly defended it. Pretty early softclaim. Spearheaded some of the testing of Banana's role, specifically asking Shining to do the final vote for confirmation. Considering everyone else who had been active aside from REF already had a vote on Banana and Shining had posted more recently, this made sense to me. Spent some time delving back into Banana's prior play with the Popular role before he started pushing on Shining for a claim. And that push wasn't just based on inactivity, something he also called out REF for. He specifically pointed to Shining's view that Kohai couldn't be the hidden Miller as odd and encouraged others to provide specific thoughts on Shining as well.

The end of DP1 was where he started surmising what the hell was going on and seemed just as confounded as anyone. Weird to say he didn't think it was the magistrate considering that someone died, but I chalk that up to confusion.

Start of DP2 got really upset about the massclaim effort, agreed to fullclaim this DP, basically came fully onboard with the Wylted lynch wagon, and gave some pretty thorough reads that made sense (some earlier reads from DP1 I didn't cover, but those were pretty short).

So, I'd say behaviorally, there's significantly more support for Mag1c being town than Wryly, in part due to more activity and more votes/associated reasoning to go off of, all of which suggest that he and Shining weren't aligned. Neither has a verifiable role. That would mean accepting that there are 3 Vanillas in this game, but I don't think that's implausible. We don't know what the balance looks like, but we do know that if Shining and his partner had gotten their pick for Ted Lasso wrong, town would have an entirely unkillable and easily confirmable player. That would make the game pretty swingy and I'm honestly not sure how Luna would try to balance it.

Mechanics-wise, what's bothering me is the existence of the Universal Back Up. The setup doesn't make a lot of sense with that role in play. We have a grand total of two PRs the Universal Back Up could have inherited - the Popular from Banana (which wouldn't matter past MYLO/LYLO, so it would be useless in most instances upon being inherited) and the Cop from Kohai. I guess he could have inherited the hidden Miller too, though that leaves us with an incredibly underpowered town where there was really only one inheritable role (the Cop) that could have benefited us in any meaningful way. Wryly's Activist isn't a tremendous boon, but it's at least something, a PR that could have been inherited and used. It makes more sense for Luna to have structured the game in a way that creates more opportunity for REF to be useful than not, and having 3 Vanillas is very limiting for his role.

So... yeah, I'm at a bit of an impasse here. I have two entirely separate cases for viewing Wryly and Mag1c as scum. I'm always tempted to go with mechanics, but there's a lot of behavioral information I can't ignore. Sorry if a lot of this is stream of consciousness, I'm still thinking this through as I type.

If I’m looking for a prominent fake claim I’m not taking from a list of mostly minor characters. I’m going straight for coaches or players; mods usually leave out a few major characters in these games.

You had already softed into the "Other" category, so while I agree that a more optimal choice might have been to soft into a different category if you were scum, I wouldn't consider that a major factor. At this point, we're discussing what would be optimal play for scum, and considering I don't see either you nor Wryly's play as optimal in that respect, that aspect is a bit of a wash.

And as do your history with Shining, does that encompassing one of you getting the other lynched DP1? Pretty sure it doesn’t, and my history with any teammate is to distance some, not full-on hard bus. Absolutely no reason to bus Shining DP1 when I could’ve gone for Wylted and bussed Shining DP2 or later, at least securing a mislynch there and getting use of his redirector.

I've played with him a few times as scum. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he and his partner would bus each other early, though DP1 is earlier than we usually do. I agree he could have coasted into DP2 on statements that he would get his activity up or that someone could test his role, especially given Wylted was a viable target at that point. I don't think you'd sacrifice him. I also don't think you'd go about it the way you did, since you were pretty early to sus him and hopped off and on that wagon a couple of times. If you were going to bus him for towncred, I don't think you'd hedge that much and then just leave a vote on him overnight.

”How much that point is in my favor” shouldn’t even be a question here; it’s 100%. Literally all of it.

Yeah, it's a solid point in your favor. Point taken.

I'll work on ISOs later when I get more of a chance to stare at my screen for something non-work related.

Anyway, I really am heading off now. We've got time to discuss this, and I want Banana's input (tagging her) since she's the only one we all appear to townread. Later.

That's why I said "welp that's taking us nowhere, we'll have to give wylted the benefit of the doubt."

Damn, didn't know that was in response to it. Should've asked about it.

Lol, you meant surprisingly yes you have a justification. I thought you meant surprisingly yes you mind telling me if you have a justification.

Ah, I understand the confusion! Glad I could clear that one up.

Anyway, I'd like to sit with these posts a while longer and I'm losing focus. I'll do some deep dives into your posts tomorrow and see what I missed. Calling it here.

I did actually explain that when I claimed. I'll quote:

I mentioned I was surprised that I have a justification because, unlike so many Vanilla justifications I've seen, this one really makes sense without squinting. Luna mentioned that her strength is mainly demonstrated through her words and actions (she literally does PR for AFC Richmond), which fits well with the whole "influence others without your voice" element that always comes with the Vanilla role. Well-played, Luna.

In effect, I was surprised that my being Vanilla had a justification that actually worked. Doesn't happen too often.

If she was at the top of the list, you mean least? Otherwise you're just contradicting the point you just made.

I did say my own thoughts were conflicting so, no, I'm not going to always be consistent with my previous thoughts. I'd still consider her a more minor character than others, but your point about the softs actually made me think of it. Considering the top characters in each of the other categories were known entities going into this DP (Banana had claimed Tartt and Wylted flipped Mrs. Welton), Flo might have looked pretty appetizing if you were looking for a prominent fake claim at this point. I balance that against Wryly's character, who came from the bottom of his list and could very well have appeared relatively safe at the time. It does stand as weird that Wryly, who knew no one else beyond her and Banana could be a footballer, wouldn't have chosen Roy Kent as the much more obvious fake claim, but I'm still digging back into her behaviorally. Regardless, I could see room to argue that neither of you behaved optimally for scum crafting a fake claim.

I doubt he would want to go that far, and regardless, I wouldn't have cared if he encouraged it. If I'm his teammate, I'm not hard-bussing him like that. There's distance, and then there's getting your own teammate lynched. At the time of my first vote on him, I had the choice to pressure him or Wylted. I felt he was scummier than Wylted.

Yes, this is something I'm taking into consideration, though I can't help but be a little skeptical of the argument given my history with Shining and bussing. It's in your favor, just a question of how much.

Yes and no. We all softed. It's fair to say I could've claimed a different category than "other," (so there's truth to this on a macro level), but what you said just isn't correct.

It's more like I forgot about the softclaim and thought you'd have a broader range of options than you actually did, but fair enough. Flo was at the top of the "Other" list, so she would have stood out as the most likely safe claim in that bunch.

It's not just that, it's the fact that I would've hard bussed my teammate DP1. For basically all of the DP I had Shining as the #1 guy I wanted dead.

Wouldn't be a first for Shining to encourage some bussing even that early (I've been scum with him enough to know), but fair enough that you would have had to push him pretty hard.

Idk man. Some of this logic looks off. Like you're just trying to find reasons to townread me while only sneaking in the big one. Feels like blowing smoke up my ass to get me off you.

If writing out my conflicting thoughts in real time makes it look like I'm blowing smoke up your ass, then I guess we're not reading the same thoughts. I never said you were lock town, just that I had behavioral reasons to townread you and one potential indicator from Kohai's play. I'll be happy to give you a full breakdown when I've had a chance to go through everything.

Anyway, I'm going to be digging back into the previous two DPs for a while.

Sincerely shocked Roy Kent apparently isn't in this game. He's a massive character from the series and the most obvious one that's missing. And now I'm 99% sure that the other scum is Rupert Mannion. That split just seems too obvious.

It's part of the reason I didn't buy Rebecca being vanilla. And you yourself said a minor character could be in the game. What changed?

Same on the first sentence. And yes, I did say that. Nothing has changed, but I can't help but notice that you are the sole outlier here. I can't dismiss that entirely.

That being said, I'm already a little hesitant with my initial read. A few things stick out to me behaviorally in your favor:

1. I don't think you'd claim Flo given that you knew everyone else's characters at this point. I gave you a list of major characters from which a couple are still missing. You could have chosen any of them, and your risk of claiming a different role and avoiding a CC wouldn't even be that high.
2. I don't see you letting Shining crash out that hard, not with the 2X Redirector on the table. At the very least, I don't think it's likely you'd call that much attention to his claim in particular.
3. I haven't had much time to dig backward yet, but looking at Kohai's posts, he solidly townread you just for pushing back on the massclaim. I found that odd at the time, but it makes me wonder if he copped you innocent. I think it's far less likely that he copped Wryly guilty and just assumed she was the hidden Miller. I'd say it's roughly the same likelihood as him having targeted REF, but it's a factor I'm considering.

If Wryly's gambiting VTNLing could be an instant loss

Ah, I see, you meant it would be a risk that Wryly would use this role or something similar and just end the game next DP if we did VTNL. Got it.

Woah. I'm not comfortable VTNLing here.

Did Wryly suggest this? I don't see it.

Flo Collins, Vanilla

The role pm is basically a description of her and what she does in the series. I think the justification is the part where it talks about her bringing out the best in Rebecca and being truthful to her, even when the truth hurts. Like I said last DP, feels half-assed.

Appreciate your giving this info without pressure this DP as promised.

And this is where I'll give my fullclaim as well:

As I said last DP, I'm Keeley Jones. I am Vanilla.

I mentioned I was surprised that I have a justification because, unlike so many Vanilla justifications I've seen, this one really makes sense without squinting. Luna mentioned that her strength is mainly demonstrated through her words and actions (she literally does PR for AFC Richmond), which fits well with the whole "influence others without your voice" element that always comes with the Vanilla role. Well-played, Luna.

At least at first blush, I buy Wryly's character and role more than Mag1c's. The 3 Vanillas are a factor, but Flo is a significantly more minor character than anyone else that has been claimed/flipped so far. I'll be spending some time digging back into the previous two DPs before providing more thoughts, but I figured I should start with this beforehand.

Sam Obisanya,1x Activist. Seems to be a custom role because I can't find it on the wiki, but it lets me pick one player during the night, and the next day phase, I will control that person's vote as well as my own. Waived both NPs bc I've had no time to think about the game and forgot this is MYLO. Justification is Sam is a beloved team member who inspires his team to protest Dubai Air.

I guess it wouldn't be impossible for you to have selected a different name for the role to make it sound more appropriate to the character, but the closest thing I've found to this role is Votebuyer, which would be a first for me to see used (I had to search the page to find this). Not the biggest fan of your not having used it because it makes your role entirely unconfirmable, but it wouldn't necessarily be alignment indicative if you had.

Played poorly this game between taking care of my grandmother and dealing with the winter conditions in the country, and with me being late with my vote DP1 I look pretty bad too; doubtless why scum has kept me alive. Really wishing we could've heard Kohai's results so far before he was NK'd.

Sorry to hear it. I hope everything's OK back home with you now, especially with your grandmother. As for Kohai, I get keeping it secret, just a shame we don't get any info from him. I will be going back through the previous DP to see if he gave any indication of who he copped, since he probably found they were innocent (otherwise he would've outed his result).

I don't sus Banana, so for me it's between whiteflame and Mag1cman.

Fair selection.

Damn, lost our Cop. In retrospect, I should've guessed that Rebecca Welton was the hidden Miller. Pie's flip pointing to her was only part of the reason I pushed for his lynch, but I had called out that she'd be an odd choice for scum. Should've just gone with my gut on that.

Well, if we're wrong, we'll cross that bridge next DP. Don't really have anything to add to my reads from earlier, so if I don't make it, POE's between Mag1c and Wryly.

I just don’t see much reason to go with anyone else at this point. Mag1c’s reads largely mirror my own and my sus on Wylted hasn’t changed since last I explained it. I don’t buy Rebecca Welton as Vanilla, I don’t believe that the absence of a justification is likely, and I don’t like that he softed a passive role.

VTL Wylted

Rebecca Welton being a Vanilla is odd to me and so is your "passive at best" comment. The way you suggested lynching Shining again until it succeeded could be a point in your favor though. I don't think Pie's PM necessarily means anything because it also mentions Beard (Rex).

Agreed on the first two sentences. I'm hesitant to put too much stock in Pie's PM, but I'll note that it specifically hedges on Beard, while it did not hedge on Mrs. Welton. I was actually a little surprised about that. My concern is that he could be the hidden Miller for that very reason.

Do you guys mind telling me if you got a justification for your roles

Surprisingly, yes.

Wryly - Based on character claim probably the hidden miler

Going to need to explain this one to me. From everything I know of Sam Obisanya, I can't see where Miller applies to him.

Mag1cman - super town reaction to character claims. Lock town

I'd call his reaction NAI. He's as likely to push back as scum as he is as town.

Bananna - Proven popular and probably town. I don’t see a scum character that fits.

I'd say Banana has the most reason to believe she's town at this point, though I base that mainly on the believe that Tartt would be in this game and that the role fits.

So my POE hasn't gone down much this DP. Your early vote on Shining and the continued pushing on him have an outside chance of being a bus, but I'd still put you in my town pile. So my POE is Mag1c, Wryly and Wylted, with the last of those standing out and the other two being null reads.

I get where Mag1c is coming from because he didn't have any input on this decision to start claiming characters. Whether he's town or scum, I can at least make sense of why he wouldn't like this. Now that we're most of the way into a massclaim, I'm not fond of him just refusing outright to cooperate, but I'm not going to hound him for being absent.

From where I'm sitting at least, we have a good lynch target in Wylted, so it doesn't bother me as much if we don't get all the character claims on the table. If we do lynch Wylted and he somehow flips town, everyone will be expected to full claim next DP because we'll be at MYLO.

So to give a straight up answer to your question, while I personally would rather go through with it since several of us have already given up our claims, I'm fine stopping here as long as those who haven't are first to claim next DP.

more of a partial sus. like a half fos.

Fair enough.

As for Wylted, the character is interesting, but I'm not confident in assuming scum Wylted would straight claim his character. We just witnessed Shining fake claim Ascetic of all things, when trying to go for town Redirector may have been a little better. It's another point against Wylted too- I'm thinking based on Shining's decision, the teammate isn't too great at claiming either, otherwise they would've found something better.

He didn't have much choice based on what he'd already softed. I would have had a much harder time believing he was Dr. Sharon Fieldstone (a comparatively much more minor character), and that's the only other character who could have fit the info he already gave. I could absolutely see him going through last DP thinking he could give his actual character as a claim not knowing that she would be mentioned right alongside Shining's in the flip.

As for you, I'm not appreciative of the mass character claim. Kohai started it, but you kinda helped get it going. You can disagree, but I disagree with your disagreement.

If you sus me over it, fine. This is me kicking the tires to try and see if I've missed something. I can't do that without at least some more character claims, and I don't have anyone specific I'm sussing out of the remaining players.

Not doing it.

I didn't demand that you do. Please respond to my question.

I disagree and I’d be surprised if your character effectively nails down your role, but fine. Thoughts on Wylted’s claim?

Lost track of time. I’ll just claim my character since Mag1c still isn’t here:

I’m Keeley Jones.

We didn't get an exact time on this in the OP, but given the timing of when this was posted, we have around 46 hours left in the DP and I'd rather not waste too much of it.

As such, I'm going to compile existing claims to start. If Mag1c isn't on to claim soon (it's been well over 12 hours now), then I'll volunteer to claim next.

1.Wylted - Rebecca Welton - Vanilla

2.Whiteflame - Other - ??

3.Banana - Jamie Tart - 1x Popular (used)

4.Mag1cMan - Other - ??

5.Wryly - football - ??

6.Kohai - Other - Informed Townie (knows there is a hidden miller)

Dead:

iLikePie5 - Ted Lasso - Unkillable (didn't live up to his role) - Town

RexFavilla - Willis Beard - Universal Back Up - Town

Shining - Nathan Shelley - 2X Redirector/Identifier(??) - Mafia

I think that covers it. Mag1c, you're up for a character claim. I'll wait a couple of hours and if we don't hear from you, I'll claim.

Ugh, sounds like a bad second degree burn. Hopefully you're treating that burn.

Lol, doy. Guess my brain hadn't caught up with me.

Honestly, hadn't thought about it until the moment you asked. Just sad we lost the coin flip. Pie would have rolled into this DP entirely unkillable.