whiteflame

Sam Obisanya. Will role claim if we're doing that.

Alright, not too surprised if he’s in this.

Just hadn't updated the thread to see whiteflame's hammer, lynch me for it if you want. My role is influential but not critical so if we're gonna mislynch we could do worse.

Not scumreading it myself. And you don’t need to claim your role just yet, just popcorn to the next person you want to character claim.

I can't believe Shining picked correctly with 1 in 9 odds. And Rex inherits the role of the first player to be killed by the mafia but is the first player to be killed by the mafia. D:

It’s 1 in 7 given two scum, but who’s counting? Actually, looking back on it, we made this easy for them. It had to be someone in Coaches and Staff, and if Wylted is town, that leaves only 3 players with that softclaim, and he claimed a woman so they had a coin flip between REF and Pie. Oops.

Also, I never watched season 2 and cannot BELIEVE Nate turns bad.

Sad but true. Spoilers.

Ugh. You’re fine for now anyway. Treat that burn and give your hand a rest.

The vote totals should all be out of 4, but the latter two are listed as out of 5.

I don't love this explanation since saying your role is "passive at best" implies that it still does something (as every passive role does - I wouldn't classify "Vanilla" as passive, it's the absence of a role), information that you volunteered without being asked about it. Especially since that came about midway through the DP and your "no one should visit me" line came at the end, I don't really buy your statement that you were softing an important role to get NK'd, either.

That's not much of a justification, but then I don't really expect much for a Vanilla justification.

I'm willing to move on from this atm, but I'm scumreading you right now.

Unvote

@Wryly, you have two votes on you currently. Character claim when you get on.

Not interesting but vanilla

Alright, I have questions. To start, what justification is given for this?

You said yesterday that no one should visit you. Why?

You also said you had a role yesterday and that it was "passive at best". Why?

I am Rebecca welton if all you wanted was a character claim

Going to need more than that at this point. You were called out by name in Pie's flip. A full claim is warranted.

I must be the hidden miller if we assume a named person in pies list is a hidden miller. I mean there aren't 3 scum but 3 people are mentioned.

Why would we assume that? One of the other two was Town and not the Miller. One was scum.

Coach beard would be the other scum I am guessing

We know that isn't true. REF flipped town.

At this point, I'm looking for that fullclaim before we move onto Wryly.

How do you feel about full character claims?

Maybe. I'd like to start with Wylted and we can go from there.

VTL Bannana

a popular town + an un killable town is way too OP

I don't get this logic. Particularly since Banana said it's a 1X role, the "un killable town" was very much killable (just not by lynch or NK), I just don't see how this is unbalanced.

If I had to guess given the remaining players in this game, our remaining characters are in the following set:

Rebecca Welton

Leslie Higgins

Jamie Tartt (Banana)

Roy Kent

Keeley Jones

Trent Crimm

Outside chances:

Sam Obisanya

Dr. Sharon Fieldstone

No, I am not looking for anyone to confirm they are in that set of characters. I know I said last DP that minor characters may be in this game and that is still very much a possibility, but I'd be shocked if at least 4 of the remaining 5 unclaimed players we have left don't fit into this group (I'll say straight up that mine is in here).

However, given Pie's flip implicates Rebecca Welton specifically, and given Wylted basically claimed her last DP (he said his character was female and that she was among "coaches and staff," in which there are a grand total of 2 such characters), that's where my attention is going right now.

VTL Wylted

Huh. OK, so it was a unique role to this game that killed Pie. Apparently, Shining guessed that Pie was Ted Lasso and that part of his role killed Pie. I'm guessing he was trying to save that for the NP, but given the wagon was forming on him and he was set to be lynched, he just chose to make the call and ended up being right. Interesting. So the timing wasn't so much coincidental as it was Shining having no other choice. I very much doubt that scum have more than one such role, and even if they do, the role is confined to DP1/NP1 (clearly meant to be a bit of anti-claim), so it probably wouldn't matter if they did.

I guess REF's Universal Backup would have just given him no role considering Pie didn't have one? Oh well.

Also, these flips basically confirm the theme split. Ted Lasso + Willis Beard was always a long shot. Pie's flip specifically calls out Nathan and "Mrs. Welton" (Rebecca Welton) as his betrayers (kinda true for her, but she's a stalwart ally after that). I thought Rupert Mannion would make more sense, but here we are.

I’m fine with this. It’s a risk with one down already, but this will happen either this DP or next.

VTL Shining

i don’t get why the DP didn’t end then

whatever it is, it likely does function like a Dayvig, just unclear what the capacity to target it is.

Well, if Pie was shot out of nowhere it’s probably a sign mafia wanted him dead.

Which is probably a sign he was accurate with his read on Shining

Maybe. It may just mean scum has a role that randomly kills someone on the lynch wagon, or even just the first person.

I say we just keep killing shining until.it works. We have confirmation he was online when this happened given his response quickly after. It's likely he was the cause but if we are at 5-2 tomorrow then who cares still have plenty of time

I'm sorely tempted.

Wouldn’t the DP end then if it triggered on lynch?

It wouldn't necessarily. If Shining was lynchproof, or this role automatically sheds a vote off of him with priority over the lynch, in which case he didn't actually reach 5 votes, then that could explain it.

Mafia Dayvig maybe?

Those were everywhere during the anniversary mash but that seems super OP here

Maybe, except that doesn't explain Shining's survival. Whatever it is, it triggered on lynch.

Luna did not say that Pie had been lynched nor did the DP end, so whatever happened here was not just transferring votes to a different lynch target. It seems like something that triggered on lynch. If there is a role that does this, I've never seen it.

And the DP didn't end for some unknown reason?

I've never seen anything like this. So... Shining got lynched, but Pie died?

Um... wtf just happened?

Let's lynch banana.

...why?

Hard to read back through now. It kinda goes against my theory of him and shining in the scum chat together though. It just felt like he knew shining was town but wanted to appear to show some restraint earlier but at the same time supporting the lynch the whole "I won't put you on L1 yet".

It just feels like he thinks shining is town but wants to lynch him. My theory blows up if shining is guilty though but it should be noted this lynch looks absurdly easy to put together

You say this despite my still not having posted a vote on him. I don't really get this at all.

Alright, I'll discuss some plausible theme splits. Luna said it's "non-complex," so I'll keep these simple.

First thought:

Nathan Shelley and Rupert Mannion. Rupert's basically the permanent villain of the show as Rebecca's ex who has her consistently on edge. Nathan starts off as a major part of the team, but betrays them by the end of the second season and remains in the antagonist role through S3. Smaller chance it's Edwin Akufo, a character who throws off the dynamic of the team by trying to acquire Sam Obisanya midway through the series and not liking being turned down, but I'd say that's a very outside chance. I doubt he's in this game.

Second thought:

Ted Lasso and Coach Willis Beard. The only two Americans in the cast and the coaching pair for the team, so it would make sense.

Both times when I had Whiteflame do this in his setups, the hidden negative utility was the person informed about it. I may have done this in one of my own games, idr.

No idea what this means btw.

Since it relates to me, I'll explain.

A couple of games back, I included an Informed Townie role that had information relating to a hidden negative utility role in the game. The person who had it in that game (Luna) was also the one who had the hidden negative utility role (he was a Nexus). It never played into the game, but Mag1c's point here is that the Informed player (in this case, Kohai) might have the very hidden role he's been informed of (in this case, the Miller). Probability on that is... shaky. We can be sure, so long as we buy Kohai's claim, that there is a hidden Miller (I buy it right now), but we can't write anyone off as possibly having the role at this point.

I don’t doubt he has the role. It’s like Banana’s popular claim, people are gonna test it.

The issue here is that scum can, in fact, be ascetic.

Yeah, it could be real. I don't know if people are actually going to test it, but the risk of it does suggest that he actually has the role. Doesn't indicate alignment, but here we are.

Hmmm... that does make some sense for his character. Ascetic claims rub me the wrong way by default since I've seen a lot of instances where they've been used as fake claims by scum, so I'm hesitant to townread you based on that.

Unvote

I won't put you at L-1, but consider yourself there. Full claim when you get on.

If we're getting a claim, I guess we could do worse than Shining since he just hasn't been very active. No one's behavior has really stood out to me as odd.

Was her first game

Would've taken me forever to get there, then.

Hadn't gotten back that far, but good to know there was a game where she was Popular.