whiteflame

And since you seem to be saying you sent your Carol to Pie, why did you choose him? You had two players you showed were mod confirmed. Why Pie?

Im waiting to hear from pie and awesome and we can solve. 

Seriously, explain this to me: why don’t you care about REF’s claim at all?

Wow. OK, so that’s how this is going down. I see how it is. I’m going to put all this in one big post because I’m not sure if I’m going to be back for another hour or so.

It’s pretty clear these two are railroading me at this point. I can’t imagine Mikal reaching the conclusion that the claimed Cop/Doc is scum with so much certainty and then seeking Pie’s claim while, for some unfathomable reason, leaving REF to claim last. Mikal has also continued to withhold any information (which he should not have give his role claim - he also notably has not said who he targeted last NP) despite claiming that he has something to support his certainty that he knows exactly who the scum team is. He shouldn’t require claims at this point. If he’s 100% certain, everything should be out on the table.

As for REF, the absurdity of his reasoning speaks for itself. He’s calling me out for not pointing to one specific reason why I didn’t select Pie when I’d already given a set last DP. Both of them are focused on balance this game, but take a look at the basis for it: Mikal’s BP and Caroler vs. my Doc and Cop. If it’s heads up, it’s between the two of us. Rex should know that, but he’s all in on me being scum, not even considering Mikal.

Beyond that, so much of this conversation this NP doesn’t make sense. Mikal had to ask how I knew it was MYLO? There are 6 players left. He knows that, I have no clue why he had me “math it out” or why he’s slow-playing efforts to get information with another active, unclaimed player interacting with him. And I have no clue whatsoever why REF is afraid of an anti-claim mechanic at MYLO. Why resist claiming at this point? What do we stand to gain when another mislynch ends the game?

For that matter, I’d like to put this to all of you: who would be my scum partner at this point? You’d pretty much have to be sure that Awesome is since I said I copped him innocent. Pie claimed an affiliation-confirmable role. No one is scumreading Max. It’s clear neither Mikal nor REF are my partner. If you think I was that close last DP to literally causing my own partner’s lynch, one that I had to be dissuaded from doing by Mikal himself at the end of last DP, then you might as well lynch me now.

The correct answer for why you wouldn't use it on Pie was that he had claimed a role that would guarantee his affiliation next DP. If you were a town cop who actually considered your target from a town perspective, that should have been an easy way to explain not targeting him. But if you were scum fake-claiming cop it might not occur to you.

This is such ridiculous logic, dude. That’s the most low-hanging fruit answer, one I’d definitely have prepared as scum, and it ignores any reason why I would choose to target Awesome, which is what I’d want to avoid justifying if I was scum. I townread Pie last DP. I gave my read then. If you want me to repeat it to you, I can.

can you explain to me why you know we are at mylo?

math this out?

Six players alive, includes two scum. 4-2 is MYLO.

But I want Whiteflame to defend his night action. It might give us insight. And I want Whiteflame to tell me who he supports lynching today.

I have defended my choices. I can detail all the reasons I was on the fence about Awesome if you’d like, though I discussed several last DP. As for who to lynch, I’m waiting for whatever other information Mikal, you and Pie may provide before I try to sort it out.

If you don’t think I made the optimal decision, then fine, whatever. Trying to protect Luna or Thoth might have been the better choice, but I had no way of knowing there would be three deaths during the NP and my goal was to focus on trying to bring down POE first and foremost. In retrospect, using the Doc made more sense, but I disagree that would have been the best choice if there had been one NK.

I disagree that Awesome was not scummy or that Pie was the better choice.

As for claiming, frankly, we’re at MYLO. What happens to me during the NP is entirely irrelevant if we don’t lynch correctly this DP, and I know I was on the chopping block if I refused to claim. Again, you might disagree with the choice, but I see it as the only meaningful way forward at this point.

I’ll wait for it.

I’ll be off and on over most of the evening. Looking for claims from Pie and REF at this point.

To clarify on the obvious “why Awesome” question, I chose him because I remained unsure of his affiliation despite that claim. That is almost certainly his role, meaning he’s not the GF even if he’s scum. So unless he got Lawyered or I got manipulated some other way, I think it’s accurate.

Might as well.

I’m Dexter’s Laboratory. Justification says there’s almost nothing I can’t create or solve.

I’m the Doc/Cop. I copped Awesome innocent.

Like I said, I’m fine claiming first.

Beyond me, man. Still trying to process what the fuck happened.

Just realized one of their deaths might be explained by the anti-claim mechanic. We don’t know what scum got access to, even though they didn’t know either Luna or Thoth’s roles.

Also, we’re effectively at MYLO now, since there are likely two scum and six players left. I don’t think we have much choice other than to get more claims. I’m fine with going first.

So… OK. I’m trying to piece this together:

Unsaid almost certainly died due to his own role. Likely targeted town, automatically died. Don’t think it was the best choice to use that NP1 where he had the most possible people in POE, but his choice.

As for how Thoth and Luna both died… I can only speculate. Thoth didn’t have a visiting role, so he was probably the NK target. Luna had some sort of forced Commuter role where he could impose it on someone else, so maybe someone triggered his death on visit like a PGO? Anyone want to speak up about having a role like that?

He’s dead regardless due to plurality.

Already beat you to it.

Asking you to go supa and I’ll explain why tomorrow.

I guess I’ll just trust this and see how this plays out. Made my own opinion clear, but we’ll see what happens.

VTL Vader

If Pie VTLs Vader, I’ll change my vote. Main thing I want to avoid is the 50-50, I’d like to get as much out of the flip and who was on each wagon as possible. If that means risking a Tracker result, I’ll accept it.

Want to get your thoughts on this too. I'm still not settled on this decision.

Going to stay online for a bit longer, not sure if I'll be on right up to the deadline, though. Gotta go to dinner soon.

Well, I've got to make a call, so I'm doing it.

Part of this comes down to not wanting this is be a mod coin flip. It's going to be a lot harder to read the tea leaves on why this vote went a certain way, as well as who contributed to a given player's ouster and why they put their vote on either Vader or Awesome if this ends up coming down to who loses the coin toss.

Part of it just comes down to the fact that I'm hoping to at least get something from Vader if he's town. We stand to gain nothing if he's eliminated this DP and he flips town, whereas we can at least have some chance of getting a Tracker result if we push him next DP. Either Awesome and Vader are likely to remain in POE after this regardless of which survives, but only Vader's role could directly benefit town and he could prove himself (assuming he's willing to re-engage after this).

Both wagons have at least two players I townread on them, so that's not affecting my choice. I still scumread Vader behaviorally, but there's just too much I can't ignore from Awesome, and whatever info Mikal has that's leading him to townread Awesome isn't something I'm privy to. So...

VTL Awesome

Is pie on Vader?

Last vote that I see from Pie is on Awesome.

This is rough.

Vader is so rough to read when it comes to blow-ups like this. I believe he's genuinely frustrated, I'm just trying to determine if he's wielding that frustration to make us second-guess the read as scum or as town. This mainly comes down to his earlier intransigence followed by his about-face, which did not make sense in the face of two votes being on him at that time. The Tracker claim is entirely plausible (even if the connection to his character seems a lot tighter than mine), but the main thing holding me back is that I have a hard time buying that he'd say all this to derail the lynch on him, especially when he was in the minority. It's just a very big response, which seems more town behavior for him than scummy.

As for Awesome, I don't love that he came back on, took his time claiming, posted that there was something up with the wording of his claim, and then just kind of dipped after dropping a pretty unique role. No doubt it fits with the rules of this game, and he seems to be relying on that entirely for his survival this DP, just peacing out as soon as he could rather than explaining himself at all aside from providing some light reads and a couple of responses to other points. It's weird and it sticks out. Mikal has some reasons to favor leaving him alive in this heads up decision, which is making me second-guess this read as well.

So... yeah, I don't love pushing either elimination at this point, but it looks like I'm going to have to make that call. Still reading back through their more recent posts, then I'll post a vote.

If whiteflame does say how his role works, I might be able to clear him, but that will depend on the role. With mean anti-claim mechanics publicly known to exist, it might be better that he does not. I guess if he is 100% the elimination today, he might as well tell us during twilight.

If I say how my role works, given what I've already indicated about it, that will just give away what my role is. At that point, I might as well claim. I'm not expecting you or anyone else to clear me without claiming, so I respect that I'm still in a lot of scum piles.

I'm not sure why you'd mention my telling you during the twilight phase, either. Anti-claim would likely be in effect during the NP. I'll claim early next DP.

I'm home. Gimme a sec to catch up on the last page worth of posts and then I'll make my decision.

Yeah... I'm getting set to leave work and I'm not sure where to put my vote here. Have to figure it out, though.

My mistake, thought there were more votes on Vader but most of them are still on Awesome.

Noticing that the votes you have listed are mostly on Awesome despite them actually being on Vader.

Debating if this is a bluff.

Same. Looks pretty genuine, but I could see him pulling something like this as scum as a last ditch effort.