whiteflame

Don't think you have yet, so when you get a chance, might want to submit the results of this game.

I think it was that split. He just interpreted Joshua as empire. I mentioned he was. It was just an odd claim from the rest.

Looking at the flip, specifically how REF has openly stated that Joshua and Leon were not part of the Empire, and how he outright stated that he didn't view my fake claim as inherently sus, I disagree. However, I'll let REF explain the theme split because I can't figure it out.

Man, you were so adamant on that theme split. I still don't know what the actual split was, but I can't tell you how frustrating it was to inherit a town character who didn't fit what you thought it was.

Not going to defend my decision to Strengthen Luna (got subbed in and just made a gut decision on it), but that also ended up being a blessing in disguise. It absolutely confirmed Mikal to me and gave some reason for town to believe what I did during the night. Most importantly, and this is definitely something I couldn’t predict, it told me scum hadn’t recruited during the night. If Mikal had survived and there was no NK, I absolutely would have believed someone had been recruited.

Anyway, yeah, kinda put scum in a difficult position with so much anti-recruitment on the table. Made town paranoid about what they’d do, but the NK was much more sure-fire, so I understand why they went that way NP1. Leprechaun was crazy, but it’s nice to see the manifesto of how it happened.

Oh good, Thoth confirmed that his claim was BS. At least we don't have to wait for REF to confirm that.

Anyway, I will do as Pie suggests and submit shortly after REF closes out this DP.

I think this was a very productive day phase regardless of his flip. We got a lot of information and unless this was MyLo I think the game is fairly solvable from here

Yeah, I think it's doable. I'll use the NP to do some reading and see if I can figure out some behavioral reads.

Well that’s twilight. Guess we will see

Didn't realize we were there, either. Oh well.

L’shanah tova to you as well. I’m unable to fast either. remember don’t be a hero. If you can’t fast then it is a mitzvah to eat.

Yep, I'm keeping that in mind!

I’m gonna be gone today for Yom Kippur.

Yup, I'll be MIA for Kol Nidre tonight. L'shanah tovah! This will be the first year of my life where I can't fast...

Whatever works.

Long story short, I'm good with the Thoth lynch today. I don't buy either of his role claims. I'm cool with using the rest of this DP to discuss potential partners. Pie would be effectively eliminated from contention if Thoth flips scum. I have very good reason to buy Mikal's claim now. Max is basically confirmed town unless he somehow knew there was a Cop in the game and that there was no Miller (not impossible, but that's a lot of info to give scum). That leaves:

Vader

Lunatic

Wylted

David

Wryly

I'm setting the last two aside for now due to a lack of role claims, since right now I'm focused on mechanics (yeah, I'll get to behavior after I've had more chance to read back through all this). I've already explained why I think Vader's role is likely in this game. It's not impossible that he's just come up with a fake claim based on a scum role that can also prevent the Day Vig, but I doubt it. I did check back and saw Luna breadcrumbing his Doc claim, so either he set up that fake claim well in advance (don't think he got it from Shining) or he's actually the Doc. That leaves Wylted as the likeliest out of the claimed pool to be scum, at least mechanically. Whether as scum or town, he has reason to get his Poisoner claim out there early to avoid getting sussed, and having used it on the NK target making it entirely unverifiable, his claim stands out the most.

I’m pointing out the inconsistencies in his claim.

Main thing that has me questioning it is how the hell it would interact with Strengthener. If a Strengthener can affect the ability to manipulate my target, which we've proven it can with Mikal's role, then it sure as hell should work with the Leprechaun. And if a Strengthener can do that, then so can a Strongman.

Not to mention wf and I got a response to the questions at the exact same time stamp within mins. So I believe he asked it

Much as I hate to push back against reasoning that you should townread me, if I was scum, I would still have waited for REF to reach out to me before posting that response.

But your such a good scum mate in general I probably would do it for you only. <3

Love you too, buddy.

Got a response:

If you are the BG, I successfully Strengthened you, and you used your role on the target of the NK, you would not die nor would your target. You also couldn’t be RB’d or redirected.

Anyway, out for the night. Peace.

This semi confirms me, at least confirming I didn't carry out the night kill. Assuming that is nobody thinks you and me are a scum team here.

Sticking up for me as a TP and then teaming up with me would be some crazy ass shit.

Regardless, this is has been a lot of work catching up on this DP and much as I'd like to post a full set of reads, I'm not really up to it tonight.

For the sake of clarity as to some of the ongoing concerns, though, I will at least give my thoughts on the people that have been scumread.

I don't buy this claim from Thoth at all. The combination of the Ascetic CC and the fact that this just all seems very convenient (not to mention it's unclear how this role functions, e.g. whether he can choose himself as Pie points out) as an explanation for why the target was Shining and not the initially more obvious Mikal. I could absolutely see him plotting this out from the outset of this DP to explain why Mikal survived. As for why he'd claim the Ascetic role, it's a risk to be sure, but I don't see it as a clear out. He could have thought it would give him more cover since scum would be unlikely to claim multiple roles, or maybe he or his partner has a Rolestopper or Asceticizer. If it's the latter, it's not a CC of Ascetic. Also, if Thoth somehow flips town, then yeah, attention would be on Pie. I see that there's some discussion of whether Pie is the actual scum and he got the claim from Shining, but I'll need to ruminate on that.

I'm still unclear on Wylted. Don't love that the Poisoner, a role whose use would get publicly announced, conveniently didn't notice that their role was announced and just put it out there that he'd used it. On the other hand, I do buy that that's probably the towniest move given that claiming it later would look more sus. I'll have to trust Mikal on the lore aspects and how the Poisoner/Healer doesn't make sense for this character, but it still does stand apart a bit regardless.

I don't really get the callout on Vader. Beyond there being a lot of protective roles, which does stand as odd, it's also the only claimed role that explains why REF told me my role could be interfered with. Maybe scum have one too. Maybe that's what Vader's covering for here. It's possible, but the way he described it - that he effectively selects his BG target at the start of the DP and protects that person throughout the DP - answers a question I had after getting the Day Vig role. I figured either the other person would get a chance to stop the Day Vig somehow (didn't happen, REF pretty much input the result as soon as he got it) or there was some other mechanic at play. Vader's mechanic addresses that. Not impossible he's scum, but it fits as well as anything.

That's really all I've got for tonight. I have every reason to buy what Mikal's saying given the result of his action. Obviously, I believe Luna since I had reason to Strengthen him (though that's less strong of a read). The rest... I'll get to in the morning.

@Whiteflame can you ask what your role would go if your role hit a BG

I assume you mean "what your role would do if your role was used on a BG", so I've asked. Awaiting a response.

Yes. I asked and he told me they were non-scarlet aligned.

Shockingly, I did not want to get that wrong by looking my character up on the Wiki and relaying what I saw there. Burned me before…

If you knew you were apart of the empire in the succession war why did you say you thought you were such an outlier and never apart of it ?

Because when I asked Rex about it, he said my character was not Scarlet aligned. I'm not going to misrepresent the information I have in a misguided effort to try to make myself look like I fit your view of what the theme split is.

Anyway, I'd like to finish catching up on this DP and I'm still two pages behind. I'll try to sort out a set of reads after that.

And, seriously, much as I love the fact that Mikal is loremastering the hell out of this game, this is a fucking frustrating basis for calling me out at this point. If I was scum, why the fuck would I choose, as the last player to claim, to claim someone from the very faction that got me sussed as a TP? I get that it's WIFOM, but god, this would just be next level stupid.

i was mixing with enabler but yes your character is an oddity

I can't help that. If you want to prove it to yourself, that's your choice. All I can do is claim the character I inherited and make clear it doesn't fit with your framing of the theme split. If it helps at all (doubt it), the details include Barbarossa, who he apparently fought alongside during the Succession War. That's the only other name in my PM.

I think WF slipped. Check the MS site. Strengthener is typically mafia aligned.

Seriously, WTF are you talking about? MS says they can be scum or town:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strengthener

Dude, you know how Strengthener works: my target is immune to RBs and misdirection. You redirected him. Your redirection failed.

As for how it's spelled out in the PM, it talks about the Dragon Rune, says it allows dragons to exist and gives me control over them, and that I can channel its power to strengthen an ally.

As for pointing out the Toran thing... I softed that my character did not fit the obvious theme split you were going with. I knew you'd call it out. Nonetheless, I put myself in the crosshairs by actively saying I'm the explanation for the failure of your role, rather than claiming I had no idea how you'd been RB'd. I don't think your concept of how the theme split in this game works is accurate, just straight up. It's up to you whether you believe it. If not, just fucking lynch me and get it over with.

Can only speak to what I have. That does suggest whoever is Tir is scum.

Fine, I’ll just spill it and we can sort this all out:

I’m Joshua Levenheit. That’s part of the reason I mentioned that I don’t get the theme split, doesn’t look like he’s Empire. He also has a True Rune, hence I said that I would have benefitted from shooting Ultra last DP since it would have granted me another role.

As for what I am, it’s Strengthener. I strengthened Luna. That’s why Mikal’s Redirect didn’t work.

Hold up a sec.

I’m still not caught up, but I can explain what happened with Mikal’s role. Its failure was almost certainly not an RB. If it’s valuable for me to claim, I can, but I’ve been trying to put the pieces together from what was covered up to page 17 and I’m almost certain that I’m the reason his role failed.

This really is going to take a while. I'll focus up and get through this, but that's like 10 pages to get through at this pace.

Anyone else having trouble with these pages loading at a glacial pace?