Helz

Kohai wrote:

Helz wrote:

At one point I did question if we should just kill you to be safe because we were not worried about the others. My rolestopper function made a huge difference in what we had to worry about.

just kirious how worried were y’all ov me after i klaimed

That did give a bit of an oh shit moment. We did not dig into it until picking night actions but figured my role could solve it . I actually tried to angle myself as protective to out any other protective but Mag1c played that well.

At one point I did question if we should just kill you to be safe because we were not worried about the others. My rolestopper function made a huge difference in what we had to worry about.

Thoth wrote:

Did y’all buy my hidden role claim?

We discussed it but a lot of us deciding to ignore if it was real was because we had like.. Every other players role in the game already. Lol

Made it easier for us to make up our own fake roles and consider what your role could be.

You are around and posting, but its void of content. There is nothing I see that shows you are hunting or lets me know why you think what you think. Looking for ways to read you.

Just hanging out and existing in the thread is not a good look.

Thoth wrote:

Why are we pressuring Ultra? Just for the sake of pressuring at least one person today?

I agree with pushing them for more content. There was some slight issues earlier but they are here now and reading so I would rather give them time.

People on this site seem to fiend for claims like they are crack. Often without even slowing down to ask "What will I get from having their claim" and more importantly "What information am I feeding mafia by outing this"

Last game I was laughing my ass off in scum chat as the town just handed us the play book on just about everything without any of us even slightly trying to get it. It was great. Can we please not do that today?

UNVOTE

Ultracrepidarian wrote:

Still a lil' confused on why everyone is pressuring me. I mean I'd be happy to claim if that's what you guys want but perhaps we should slow down on the claiming just a touch

Some people want your claim. I really want people to chill on the claim madness.

I am just interested in hearing more reasoning and reads from you. With 23 pages of content I would like to hear about what you see in the game past "X person is town, X person is scum" and such. Stuff I can use to actually read your slot.

wylted wrote:

If you guys do murder Casey you could have just done that without me swapping in btw and ruining my ability to swap in for somebody else.

Nobody even voted Casey. I just pointed out they were inactive with 1 post and wanted to hear from them. They basically signed up and never played.

whiteflame wrote:

I agree, though a bunch of roles like this is necessarily going to fall prey to (2). This role and others like it exist as roles used in actual games. I'm not saying that it's unimportant as a result (part of the reason I didn't use it in my game is that I didn't want to have to deal with determining whether any given post by Luna was "drunk enough"), just that it's going to be generally hard to accept the existence of a role like this regardless of whether it's real or not.

3 points as clear as I can make them

1- Such a role is borderline offensive to the player. They are placed into a game with a constraint by the host, not the scum and nerfed to have no role at all on top of it. I would almost certainly refuse to play if a host gave me that.

2- Such a role is literally bastard. Its the hosts decision on a super vague demand if the condition is met or not and someone will die if they do not meet it impacting the game. So the host has direct impact on the game.

3- This is a modkill function and the very last game Lunatic was super pissed about a mod kill. It would be wild for them to then turn around and cram a modkill obligation on a player that is not even any sort of rule break kinda deal.

Im pretty stuck on this.

Literally, Casey made 1 post saying they had a dinner or something and would be back later. There is no read anyone could possibly have to demand a claim right now.

Could we slow down on the claim madness? There is no reason to throw out information from a fresh player in a slot with 1 post

Thoth wrote:

What is ATE?

Appeal to Emotion. Its one of the 3 formal appeals in formal persuasive speech.

Not much way to pressure Casey. They made 1 post and have not been back.

On Kohai something I really do want people to give some thoughts on is if a negative chat modifier that can result in modkill on a Vanilla town role makes sense. That keeps getting glazed over and it pings me really hard. That role feels like a massive slap in the face to the point I question if its possible to exist.

Mikal wrote:

I am not sure if rex mag or casey has posted anything or more than owen.

Just checked. Casey has made one post saying they will come back and post later. Lol

I would also very much like to hear more from Rex

I think this is where I am fine sitting for now. I am not just putting a vote there for giggles. I am fine with Ultra or Kohai today. While I favor Kohai I do want a counter train and I am serious when I say I would rather resolve them early if its going to require stacking votes to get minimal participation out of them independent of anything else.

VTL: Ultracrepidarian

Im down to push Ultra but I am unsure how effective it will be. After shoving them for reads they gave some soft positions in #399. The other thing I consider is if they will be high lurk low effort regardless of alignment they are a low risk elimination for town and grow as a potential liability if they are left to exist in the end game.

Banana wrote:

if you guys help me pressure ultra ill board the kohai wagon, since its proly hapening anyway, but ultra gets out of this scot free otherwise

So I have a very cold reason way of looking at D1 eleminations-

1- How sure are we the player is scum?

2- How much risk is their in loosing them as town? Are they going to be a strong asset as a player? Do they have a useful role?

3- What information do we gain from their elemination?

So for Ultra-

1- There are some things I am suspicious of but I am not confident they are scum

2- I voiced very early on that I have zero problem with a policy elimination and under pressure they have given minimal information. I can jump on board with demanding a claim but what I really want is to analyze. It drives me a little nuts how D2 every game on this site like 2/3 of the players have claimed.

3- Their elimination would create information on who was opportunistic and it would present a nice counter wagon situation against Kohai which would be useful for late game wagonomics. If we get a late game, this game feels like it could snowball pretty quickly. This has the same issue of minimal reasoning on the train with people who will say "RVS and the claim thing was weird"

Banana wrote:

Helz wrote:

Banana wrote:

4- Banana is just a nice person and genuinely is buying the ATE

whats ate again

Appeal to emotion

i mean i town read him b4 that

Thats kinda what I want to see. I did not see anything to town read them on. I am curious what you see given you probably understand their play much better than I do. Its also kinda hard for me to follow their points with the drunk thing they are doing.

Banana wrote:

Abandoning the drunk shtick now would only confirm his guilt and eliminate any possibility of averting a lynch. A self-vote can be unvoted; nothing can erase the evidence of abandoning drunkvoice completely and not getting modkilled.

hes already admitted dfeat and vote himself, he could just not do it and get killed for it from his mech

That said, I'm open to hearing arguments that I'm wrong

its not about right and wrong, his lynch is prolly gona happen, just want there to be some effort going into what we do if we are wrong. who is scum on this wagon and why? how many ppl get to use the pass of "we lynched him cuz dumb"? every1? or just some ppl? what do we gain from coming to the conclusion we were wrong and it was just kohais fault, not ours. just want to get effort from more ppl. casey and mago barely posted and ultra is very sus.

Very valid point. Its also why I gave very direct reasoning but I am unsure how much effort the town will put in while wolves will almost certainly just avoid voicing anything if he is town. As scum they will likely dogpile for the credit. The only real value we get then is town voicing thoughts which can be gone through if we are wrong and he really is town.

Banana wrote:

arent u the guy that purposely gives himself post restrictions to challenge himself?

Yeah. Some people keep trying to tie that fact to my first game misslynch but my refusal to claim the tiny detail of what type of doctor I was had nothing to do with why I was eleminated.

My thing this game is rather simple. Usually I just totally ignore flavor. This game I am going to grit my teeth and force myself to analyze it a decent bit. I believe I said so in the sign up thread. Its also not a challenge but I am attempting to play much more interactive this game simply because I have not done so on this site yet. I like to mix it up and it helps stop people from destroying themselves with meta reads on me when I simply have none and use all sorts of different play styles.

Banana wrote:

4- Banana is just a nice person and genuinely is buying the ATE

whats ate again

Appeal to emotion

Well sense you went there. I doubt there is 2kpn. Its simply unlikely looking at numbers given how quickly the town could just get stomped

Worst situations for town (1kpn)

D1 8 town 3+1 scum, miss-eleminate + 1 kill

D2 6 town 3+1 scum, miss-eleminate + 1 kill

D3 4 town. Potential parity and town looses.

That feels rough. A VTNL would at least most likely lock in a D4. This situation goes with the assumption that the Neutral is anti town or can scum side and the scum team does not hit them.

If we are right about Kohai and the neutral does not/can not side with scum-

D1 8 town 3/1 scum, Eleminate wolf + 1 night kill

D2 7 town 2/1 scum, Misseleminate + 1 night kill

D3 5 town 2/1 scum, MYLO right here. But not Lylo

This is gona be tougher than I thought. Depending on how things go a VTNL may not be an awful option at some point. I wont bother posting my 2kpn numbers. Its not worth taking up brain space.

Wryly wrote:

Thoth wrote:

Honestly, I think that appealing to, “it’s an outside possibility, but we should act as though it’s a serious risk”, is the archetypal scumtell, and not just from Banana.

This is true, but I also question Banana being this overtly supportive of Kohai as his scummate. It makes me think she's either genuinely doubting the evidence, which seems unlikely also, or that she's doing what she did in Solo Leveling mafia when Helz's mislynch was imminent, and supporting a doomed townie to farm towncred -- but that would mean Kohai is town, which seems even unlikelier. I don't like any of these options.

I agree. I think its unlikely they are teamed W/W

I suppose its possible. The immediate potentials I am thinking-

1- Banana truly believes it was a gambit and I am just not understanding the level of confidence they have in their conclusion

2- Banana is spoiled by being scum and knowing the scum team grabbing town cred

3- Banana is spoiled by some other mech thing and not revealing

4- Banana is just a nice person and genuinely is buying the ATE

I agree that the drunken thing is off. But its something thats been off about their role from the start of the day. Im still seriously stuck on that being in the game. I would have literally hard considered replacing out of a game if the host gave me a post restricted VT role under the threat of mod kill. I just don't see that especially with the mod kill thing last game.

Banana wrote:

seems I’m outnumbered here on kohai. my one request is that we honor the potential of him being town at least and push for anything from ultra. Bcuz if ultra ends up being scum and we mislynch kohai here it’s just extra salt in te wound if we let him go by without saying things.

Why are you so convinced they are town? Any thoughts on the other issues I pointed out?

But I do agree we should push Ultra a bit more.

Thoth wrote:

Helz wrote:

Really though, If people want to hard question if he was honest about the RT

RT?

Reaction Test

It is possible. I have personally faked scum slips and all sorts of wild stuff to break RVS and get the game rolling D1 but I always consider the exit and do things like softing I was gona do it first so it does not blow up in my face. And I also get that kid like excited feeling as the thread blows up on me and I get to unpack what I found from the situation.

Really though, If people want to hard question if he was honest about the RT we can still look at the other factors. How likely the drunk thing is, how likely the semi-bastard mod kill thing is, how likely it is for Russa to be a scum flavor. There is lots of other questions that could be talked about.

Im more digging through the thread hunting at the moment.

I will say right now Pie does looks good in this situation assuming Kohai flips scum.

For Kohai's meta I have noticed they have a strong habit of listing their scum partners in the bottom of their reads as scum. They voice Pie as their strongest town read in 373 which would be out of character. Then Pie was the first to confirm I was correct that the 3 choice pool info was TMI. Past that they have looked pretty decent to me today.