I duno. I pretty much always soft. I just did it in a really stupid way here because I thought it was funny to ramble about fucking my cousin and making people realize that they are literally related to every person they have ever had sex with. Fun subject to bring up at an engagement party.
I do think that overall slowing down claims is a positive. We do not know what we do not know yet.
Ultracrepidarian wrote:
Banana is my top scum lean currently
1 - tried to make me full claim on the grounds of an obvious joke vote, then when I didn't immediately comply with that demand said I was stalling
2 - Im heavily leaning toward number three being the lie, and banana's opening behavior with immediately soft claiming is very in line with that.
I will say that it did look like you were stalling. The natural response imo would be between refusing or just doing it. Saying "Give me time" then coming back to give random info on some mech stuff. Im not asking you to claim right now but yeah, that was a weird way of dodging a request to claim.
I suppose I was just wrong. WF was on Wryly not Ult
Kohai wrote:
hickuo
4 feals tru bc me karacter
I noticed that you mentioned 4 felt true but not 5 here. Given your claim I feel like that would have been a quick assumption. Any reason you did not voice thoughts about 5?
Banana wrote:
i can’t speak for others on ultra but my recent posts have showed why I scum read him. at the very least I think he’s a good person to ask for info from and thoughts
I get that but the whole "Claim now or die" suddenly had its pressure fall out and WF unvoted because... They rambled about some mech? Its just odd progression.
Mmm. Im not going Wryly or Banana today.
Im a bit confused about Mikal. They seemed to do nothing but screw around with claims and then suddenly cautioned it could be dangerous. One of the stronger indicators I noted in their scum play last game was the lack of consistency in their positions. Although I have not gone try hard on this site yet as town to really recognize if its such a major indicator.
Ultra's escalation and shift was a bit weird. They were pushed for little reason then people were demanding hard claims and they rambled about some mech and now people are chill about them while also vote parked? Im more confused than anything else with that..
Mikal wrote:
Agree with most of this but the only reason im not considering tailor being something as an option they had is luna is notorious for using this and does use it quite a big.
Let's say they did pick 3 for example and there is a theme split. A tailor balances that and knowing it could exist rebalances it
If they picked 1. They could use a tailor for chaos
They also could just be lying about tailor and the idea of it existing is there for paranoia.
But I've seen luna use it enough that its presence is not "odd"
My mind is less on if it exists or not as a role and more on how likely that or the citizen thing would be revealed if that makes sense.
Im also chewing on if 4 is real if that indicates that roles have angles on groups. Like "You do X to this gender" or "You do X to religious characters" or "You do X to races." They are very specific categories and I am already seeing lines in what people have indicated they could be. If there is no theme split then maybe the theme ties into mech in other ways past what ability they may have.
Thoth wrote:
The wording “Mafia Tailor” strikes me as odd. Why would any other alignment have a Tailor? Something about that wording stands out to me as being in Lunatic’s pen.
I could see it being useful for certain neutrals. Like an executioner or some kinda Neutral that ends up being able to work with the mafia team. But again- Mafia did not write the lies. They picked from some pre-made lies Luna gave them options on so that being tied to him does not indicate its the lie.
Thoth wrote:
VTL: Helz
For last game
Sorry brother. It did not feel good.
I did tell everyone to never trust me and never try to use meta on me.
Im also thinking on 5 it would tie together their players if multiple used it.
Lets say they got down to Lylo and all roles are claimed, then we recognize 'Oh wait, there is only one cit claim. So that was the lie and who used its benifit?' solving the game for us
Or if they have 2 mafia claim cit and again we narrow down the PoE. It would fuck their tailor plays and they would know that they had a tailor.
Im just struggling with the potentially detrimental implications of Mafia making that lie and how it would be useful for them.
I agree its on the scale of bastard. Just not sure as whats considered accepted here. That would have been a very useful lie to make though given it adds doubt into all of the flips we will get this game for later analysis.
If I was scum out of the mechanics up there that is the exact lie I would want told to cast doubt on all of the flipped mech for the rest of the game.
For 1 if I was scum and got to lie about the team I would have dropped a mafia or something. Making it so the town stops looking for alignment tells after 2 mafia die. And its just not a great lie to add or hide a Neutral. Small paranoia play thats kinda worthless so I see 1 as simply true.
2 is super useful potentially
3 is ehh. It casts doubt on theme but really people are gona draw connections at some point regardless if 2 or 3 scum have flipped
4 is totally useless for scum. People would immediately know if it was bullshit and call it out.
5 is of small use. Justifies dodging a claim a bit but by adding VT? Someone claims no role they are suddenly lower value to the town so VT is not the best claim.
Im thinking 2 or 5 and more likely 2 than 5 between the two things. Although it is itching at my mind why Luna would honestly want to disclose that there was citizens. Like.. Thats a weird thing to have host confirmed and 2 would make a lot of sense for the host to confirm.
Banana wrote:
anyways i still want to pressure ultra. i don’t like that they were both paranoid about being lynched but then follow that by being dismissve of 4 votes and then disappearing. it seems they are going to be inactive and not post much and we need something to lock them in with. I don’t think softing old ppl does much to make me comfortable about him yet and it does seem a bit different from other sorts so far
Still catching up but if someone is going to be an absolute hard lurker I am not opposed to keeping the option of doing a policy there. I do not want to see happen in this game what happened in the last one with Shining. They were in the critical late game before they were ever forced to really dive into the game.
For those experienced here how typical is it for a tailors existence to be disclosed?
How bastard does this community treat the existence of such a rule to begin with?
Wrylys #195 looks good to me as does their earlier focus on the issue. After asking the host the scum were specifically given some options they could pick from to add as an additional rule. It was not modifying an existing stated rule or removing one and they were not able to make up anything they wanted.
For Wryly it slightly reflects a lack of TMI. Would not be difficult to fake but its a very subtle bit of WIFOM for them to slip in there to be town read for if that was any sort of intentional. I would imagine its also not a subject scum off the bat would want to champion so much as something they would react to others digging on.
Mikal wrote:
I feel like you rolled andrew wilson. Next we are going go hear about Muslim cousin fucking and why they are literally low iq and retarded. Luna watched to much mdd
There is nothing wrong with having sex with your cousin and unless your a virgin you have done it too. Having sex with your sister like those inbred hillbillies in west Virginia is the real problem.
Banana wrote:
Who do u win with
I win with the town. I do not win with the mafia team. I am unsure if the 3p will have aligned win conditions that make it possible for them to win with the town or not. Who do you win with?
Yeah. Throwing a bit out here and there for softs to point to is great and all. And I do love the trolling. But I think we should be cautious about claims. Sniffing out the mafia is going to be more complicated with a confirmed 3p to deal with. They will be able to genuinely scum hunt because one exists in the game and the 3p itself adds all sorts of wild potentials into the situation
Banana wrote:
what is ur win condition
To be a good boy and get people to understand and accept my love. Im not like one of those benchѻaddes. I just want people acknowledge that its ok to hook up with your cousin. Is that so wrong?
Im catching up now.
Goodmorning.
I woke up this morning and was just thinking about a study I read. Of how it takes a maximum of 32 steps to connect 2 people (with an average of 16.) If you date someone of your own race and culture that typically drops down to an average of 8. So we are all technically etch others some number of related some number of times removed. I think that basically means that its not a question of if its ok to have sex with your cousin but actually that it absolutely is.
I may be dating my cousin but I feel like I should not be judged for it. I think the people that give me shit are actually jealous because she is hot and they just want to break us up so they can get a chance. I hope people will respect my beliefs and my relationship.
Finishing up my obligations for the day but I honestly do not even have it in me to play right now. Just burnt out.
I feel I should say I believe I was wrong about thinking Luna liked posts after death. There was a communication issue with the information I was given there and I do not like to be critical of people unfairly.
I will also say what I have said in DM's to both Pie and Luna is pretty clear. I agree with the mod kill on level 2 of my scale with the aggravating factor of it happening after multiple players flatly cautioning Luna prior to them posting. When you are flatly told by other players (not even the mod) that you are doing something sketchy and choose to go down that road it removes a lot of "I thought it was ok" or "I feel its unreasonable"
The piece I question is if it was necessary to close the day. That made a players action impact the day cycle more strongly not less. And I will again say the 'Must I' burden is questionable but the 'Can I' was absolutely met if we are talking about rule breaks.
Pretty clear. As clear as why Mikal was killed really (and I personally feel they shoulda been modkilled the moment they mentioned Thoth was posting in the server but not in the game) but thats just me.
If you really want to call stuff out also the site literally got modified because you after death broke a rule clearly stated not to like posts after death. That is 100% literally why that feature was removed from this section.
I get disagreeing with the mod kill. I have specific reservations but while I hold you in probably the highest regard out of players on this site I do think you made some mistakes here that are not unreasonable for the mods action.
I do say this and you know more than most how critical of Pie I have been in some respects in the past. Total Autsitic Honesty
Lunatic wrote:
Mikals offense was lesser
Now that is a wild take. How did me paraphrasing my role pm negatively effect the game more than OGI? Aren't you the one who has had consistent issues with OGI? Somehow its a lesser offense when its on your side? Thats crazy bro
The difference being the host hard declared that flavor was AI and voiced its a rule break to quote your role. Prior to you even making the post you had like 2 or 3 people flatly voicing "Do not do it, its a rule break" reflecting knowledgeable intent of a rule break prior to doing it. Thats the main difference imo.
Mikal broke a lot of rules imo and quite bluntly I do not know why OOG communication is tolerated at all here much less why mentioning it is not an instant smite every single game. But for whatever reason this site has a culture of acting like thats normal. But there were 2 hard listed rules voiced that were broken. Rule 1 Mikal broke. Do not edit or delete posts.
Granted what they deleted would have not changed anything but I will again mention their pattern of flagrantly skirting the line of acceptable behavior.
The other one was you basically word for word quoting your role PM in a game where flavor was flatly declared to have a split and be totally AI. This would give a huge unfair advantage at the end of the day.
Both were rule breaks. Imo Mikal deleting an image that would have changed nothing is a lesser issue than you hard quoting your role but we can look at the pattern of Mikals behavior if we want to assign greater or lesser blame.
I was apathetic enough about this game I shrugged off the course I felt that would be most likely to make my team win so please do not mistake me for really caring about the win. I do feel both mod actions qualify for the first 2 categories in my metric even if I would have personally handled it a bit differently.
/sign
Expect me to be low effort this game. My life is a mess of obligations right now I will not even go into but saying this before I get an alignment so people do not make some AI kinda thing out of it. Not sure how much time I will have to really dedicate.
I will flip what I did last game and lean hard into flavor this game. Not looking forward to it but I do need to get with the program if this is just how this place is
Like, there is many ways to remove a player from a game who has caused harm while preserving game integrity. There is certainly a balance there that exists between punishing rule violations and preserving game integrity. But there is not an absolute on it.
Imo thats not the case. And if I may make the appeal to my experience I have quite a lot in managing mafia communities.
You can mod kill the player but not their slot and have a forced replacement while keeping their slot alive
You can mod kill the player but withhold their flip from being revealed until EoD to prevent shifting the game state
You can mod kill the player and end the day or let the day continue but either is an option.
These are all valid moderator options with different situations applying to when and how they should be applied. Its not just "Every modkill must end the day" its about game integrity and what kind of break happened. My personal view was that the mod kills were justified, I do lean twords the "Should I" bit and I do not think the "Must I" was met. Then I was critical of closing the thread.
Mikals offense was lesser but it was after a huge pattern of OOG communication and angleshooting I would not have tolerated. Honestly while there is growing pains I do feel this community needs to get right with following rules. There was portions of the game I was questioning if there was OOG communication breaking total game integrity just because of how loosely followed rules are. If you guys get access to the Mafia chat you will see it but I duno if thats common here.
Lunatic wrote:
We can argue about "how close it was" all day but thats kind of not the point at the end of the day. Mod killing has a horrible negative effect on the team that it happens to. So for you to do something like that, it has to be a pretty serious infraction. Me info dumping about my role doesn't confirm me. I never even read my role pm because this is a gay ass theme, so I skipped straight to the role. People kept pestering me about the justification so I gave more. None of that town confirms me. At this point I was still on a dreamer result, and if I am scum I am 100% capable of googling any of that shit about my role pm. It never confirmed me or came anywhere close to confirming me. And I did change a reasonable amount of it. I have had people post more of their role pm's in my games and haven't mod killed them.
Whats worse, basically giving the mafia team a free mislynch or letting it play out? You actively chose an action that supported one team over an another at the end of the day because your ego and pride. If thats how to want your games to run after waiting on the sign up list, that's on you. Just telling you that it kind of invalidates the win a little bit for the scum team. If I was scum I would be pissed, knowing that my win was given to me from a bastard mod decision. Just saying.
So just to be up front I did have conversations with Pie behind the scenes where I unpacked my thoughts on the subject. The part I was critical of was the locking the day cycle because of the kill. I did not unpack how reserving the flip could have preserved game integrity.
But I am curious, 1 scum 1 town was mod killed. I do feel you both broke rules although I do feel there is valid reason to question the 'must I' part on my scale of action. Do you not feel a scum mod kill with arguably less justification offsets the town modkill?
The moment I read our teams flavor and roles I was able to recognize exactly the pool we were in. But if some poor soul did not study chemistry at some point they could be the greatest mafia player on the planet and just get destroyed due to something they can not control unless they literally want to go study chemistry to play a video game. Thats not great imo.
I woulda been hurting my first game here if I was scum having to watch 2 seasons of an anime to even understand what should or should not be claimed. My personal take is that Mafia is already time intensive enough to do well. Getting extra homework with flavor just makes it a chore.
To be honest this kind of issue is why I hate flavor being AI.
It did nothing to add to the game imo and just caused problems. It dragged claims and non mafia knowledge into the mafia game and at the end of the day it was just utterly harmful to players experiences while creating an unfair dynamic that favored people who had specific understanding outside of the game.
