Someone name a single major mafia outlet that its normal for flavor to be AI. Anyone. I want to hear it.
2+2, Sc2, ToS, FoL, MU, Syndicate, MS, ToL, and all the rest. Show me a single site where what this site does is 'normal'
Im not saying it should change but its weird to act like "Oh you said it was a full claim but did not include flavor" is an issue before even considering that I absolutely did think I had included that info and have zero reason to lie about it
Or if there is some specific thing thats not weird semantics on what a 'full claim is' when I clearly have voiced I thought I said my flavor and gave it no more thought so I must be lying about a full claim. This is just silly. And there is no reason as scum I would do so
WF. Get to your point. You are acting like I have not been up front with things and I have been nothing but honest. Please do not ruin this for the town. Its as simple as Shining/Bullish
After the elimination had already happened I revealed to Thoth that I was 2x and they asked about my role. I told them what I have which is not a name but that I vaporize.
whiteflame wrote:
Is this your first time character claiming even inside of your chat, or did you claim something else there? Which is it? Because Thoth is saying he'll confirm what you say. Did you wait until this DP to claim your character anywhere at all, which is a baffling choice when you were townreading Thoth, or did you claim something different?
I do not think so. I think I said it in public chat before. I could be wrong. But no, I did not claim flavor in my chat with Thoth and I flatly voiced I do not want to think about or deal with that cancer in my life this game before the game even started.
Bullish wrote:
Thoth, you said "Yes" to "Did Helz full claim to you?", but later you said "Helz did not claim Nitrogen in our chat."
Full claim means character AND role claim. What exactly did Helz claim to you?
It means that on this site. And probably only on this site. Because flavor being some huge factor in games is not a normal thing in the majority of other sites around the planet.
You are about to throw the entire game over a really mindless assumption and you can not even articulate direct problems
Maybe just at the very least hear out Thoth before killing me. But 1000% its exactly Bullish and Shining for the scum team
I really do think I did claim my flavor but same as you and everyone else on this site I am too lazy to dig for it. If I am wrong I am wrong. And its a really stupid lie to the point its not even AI. Why would I lie about such a thing? If I was scum I could simply know every person has claimed whatever element and do anything I wanted. Think about this. There is zero reason for me to do something so illogical as scum.
Im not even seeing a question here. Just an accusation that I said something I never did based upon a bad assumption.
I do not know what you are smoking but I never claimed anything else to Thoth. I thought I flatly claimed my flavor. If I am wrong there I am wrong but there is not contradiction where I claimed something else to Thoth
whiteflame wrote:
Shining wrote:
Wake me up when you want to end this bro.
You can go ahead and vote, dude. I'm down to explore this to whatever extent I can with regards to Thoth, but Helz is the obvious lynch.
I really do think your town and you are totally fucking the town turning your brain off and going off your gut feelings here.
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
Kill me if you want. We are in absolute Lylo from everything I see but the game will be on you.
Lol, if you think this is on us at this point, then we've gone into seriously ridiculous territory at this point. I've made the case extensively for why I don't trust your claim. You've been almost entirely unresponsive. I've even held off on actually putting down a vote and have told others to hold off. But no, this is clearly on everyone but you.
Name one thing I have not responded to? A single thing
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
I figure the town is about to throw it. There is no possible reason on the planet I would claim something that looks so bad if I was scum. Or why I would reveal such information in a side chat. Its just absurd. So I think this is the play-
VTL: Bullish
Its absolutely Bullish and Shining. The game is totally locked up. Do not over complicate it obsessing over details and ignoring the obvious basic things in front of you
Dude, if you expect us to buy what you're selling, you'd be a lot more engaged with the points we're making. The lack of discussion about the mechanics of your night actions, the inconsistencies in your statement that you'd full claimed, the decision to claim something different in chat with Thoth... what should we be buying here, exactly? That you're behaviorally town? I'll give you that you've looked good since the start of the game, but this is ridiculous.
What are you even talking about the lack of discussion about the mechanics of my night actions? I have been super clear. There has been no ambiguity and I do not understand what you are even thinking about there.
And I did full claim. Im sorry that the majority of the entire global mafia community does not make flavor AI and I brush it off. I still really do think I claimed my flavor and I do not even understand why you are being weird about the term 'full claim' given that you should recognize that. I gave every detail about my role and thats a 'full claim' in almost every site on the planet but here apparently even before considering how much I disregard flavor.
Really think about this. Why would I make such a stupid lie if I was scum? What possible sense does it make?
Kill me if you want. We are in absolute Lylo from everything I see but the game will be on you.
Pretty much. There is no reason for me to lie about this. Every single flip I see has this bolded direct role and my DM is not worded the same. I had an entire conversation about this before but this would be a really stupid thing to lie about if I was scum.
I figure the town is about to throw it. There is no possible reason on the planet I would claim something that looks so bad if I was scum. Or why I would reveal such information in a side chat. Its just absurd. So I think this is the play-
VTL: Bullish
Its absolutely Bullish and Shining. The game is totally locked up. Do not over complicate it obsessing over details and ignoring the obvious basic things in front of you
whiteflame wrote:
While we're at it, something else is still bothering me. You've now said your character is Nitrogen. Great. What's your role called? You've only referred to what it does. What is it called in your PM?
So this is an issue I have. Scum and town alike get this bolded "Therefore you are XXXX" with a role name. I do not have that. I was told I vaporize everything that comes to the person I visit and I neutralize everything.
I also voiced this to Thoth in our chat.
Like, What possible reason could I have as scum to not just take that and run with it? By default if I was scum and had 1 town vote I could control +2 team mates I would have had a majority yesterday. Basic math. Its not even possible for me to be scum considering that and yet the town is blindly marching down this stupid path and ignoring any reasoning.
There was a lot past how it sounds. I dislike that its just being shaded like its unreasonable. I did end up feeling they were towny but the fact I revealed I was 2x and I got my role removed with them knowing that is where I really drew a hard position that Thoth is town.
I would also point out what scum would ever discourage a town player from sheeping their vote? D3 #178 Thoth flatly offered to follow my lead and vote where I do and I asked that instead they triangulate with me and voice their own thoughts. Why would I ever reject such an offer?
When you get done getting that info ask what you would do as scum if you were Bullish/Mikal in such a pool. Maybe bus? Just maybe?
As Bullish reflected absurd certainty that Mikal was scum in ways they could not explain and also expressing absurd certainty that Casey was town in ways they could not explain? Thats TMI. Just look at it.
I will also say ask the host. Banana's dream was randomized 100% and it had a 'minimum' of 1 scum in it. Ask them the question and verify my words here.
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
Duno what everyone is getting worked up about. Im like 95% sure I claimed Nitrogen when I first revealed. And I have absolutely full claimed my role.
You've stated several times that you've full claimed in response to requests for your claim. If you're so sure you did, link to the posts. I've done a Ctrl+F for "Nitrogen" and unless you misspelled it somewhere, I don't see it. Also, if you named your role anywhere or specified its specific mode of action beyond "it prevents everything," show me.
Thoth can verify I even told them without being asked that I was a 2 shot which I would have no reason to reveal if I was scum. I bet not a single one of you even bothered to read through my ISO. Not that I blame you. I have zero interest in looking at it myself to see where I voiced that but its really weird I am being painted like I have been any sort of secretive about my claim this game. If anything I claimed my role too early
I don't doubt that you told Thoth... in DP3 where you had the opportunity to do so after virtually everyone had claimed, so that's not doing you a lot of favors. Believe me, though, I've re-read your ISO a few times searching for your claim. It's been really annoying.
People should re-read Bullish's comments just today. Not even ISO them. Just read what they are saying today. Its a really weird progression.
From being open minded to being emotional and insulting to Shoving a PoE with some half ass wagonomics shoving the person they know did not visit is scum then directly into questioning the person they say they town read (WF)
Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on him too, but "being emotion and insulting" is not unusual for him and you're pushing the same behavioral read on him that Mikal did, so that's not a good look. I'd be much more sus of him if he didn't question me.
So I am gona bitch for a second. Why would I make up such an absolutely verifiable lie that I said my flavor? This is why I hate that flavor is even a factor. Use your brains for half a second and recognize that absolutely everyone has claimed theirs so I could claim anything on the periodic table if I wanted to. What possible reason would I have for making that up especially if I was scum? If anything I would be super careful about making such claims and not just volunteer my role and details about my role when I am not even pressured. If you want to look at meta look at my first game here where I just shrugged about flavor and claimed my name for absolutely no reason as town. I do not care about it and do not want it taking up space in my head. I personally dislike that its being dragged into a mafia game at all and I said so before this game even started and I had a role or alignment.
Honestly? I don't know. Why would you lie about claiming publicly as town or scum? You might do so just to push attention elsewhere when the opportunity presents itself, but you'd have to know it would eventually come back to you. At best, that's NAI. It's not the main reason I'm sussing you, so the frustration is just a bonus.
So, I am not gona dig through my own ISO to figure out where I claimed. I really thought I did. Maybe I just remembered wrong and did not. I have been avoiding flavor everything like the plague this game.
I duno about how my views line up with Mikals but my main concern about Bullish is that their reads do not match their reasoning. Scum has to fake their reasoning. They have to gauge how strongly to convey "I think this person is town/scum" while town has actual reasoning that can be followed. I am struggling to see that in them. They have absolute certainty about alignments and end up correct but they can not explain why they had such certainty.
And right now just look at their position. They claim to have mech certainty that Shining did not move yet they shove them. Now they voice they hard town read you and yet they are demanding answers and now shoving you. There is no logical progression. There is no thought process I see to understand how they jumped from what they thought to their conclusion. Its inconsistent and the reasoning they state just looks like scum faking positions.
Duno whats AI about me being frustrated but really, there is no reason for me to lie about something that people could confirm. That would be pretty stupid. I am human and I do make mistakes. Earlier this game I remembered something wrong and just owned it when I realized I remembered it wrong. If you have any questions for me let me know but from where I sit it looks like Bullish is a bus happy Mafia who just shoves their team mates in ways that look bad. They know they could win today so now they are shoving Shining and looking for an out (which appears to be you or me)
...Wut?
Shining wrote:
Mikal was going to be lynched last DP. He just death by Pie'd himself for God knows why. Kinda expecting Helz to get modkilled as well.
@Helz
VTL: Helz
On that subject, fullclaim please.
Already did. And the fact nobody showed up to hammer me proves that you are not town. If you were the Mafia coulda just slammed home the win right there.
Also yet another confirmation WF is town that they had to call that out.
You guys would have to think I either wanted to get myself killed or am just stupid to believe that I would do such a thing.
So I am gona bitch for a second. Why would I make up such an absolutely verifiable lie that I said my flavor? This is why I hate that flavor is even a factor. Use your brains for half a second and recognize that absolutely everyone has claimed theirs so I could claim anything on the periodic table if I wanted to. What possible reason would I have for making that up especially if I was scum? If anything I would be super careful about making such claims and not just volunteer my role and details about my role when I am not even pressured. If you want to look at meta look at my first game here where I just shrugged about flavor and claimed my name for absolutely no reason as town. I do not care about it and do not want it taking up space in my head. I personally dislike that its being dragged into a mafia game at all and I said so before this game even started and I had a role or alignment.
People should re-read Bullish's comments just today. Not even ISO them. Just read what they are saying today. Its a really weird progression.
From being open minded to being emotional and insulting to Shoving a PoE with some half ass wagonomics shoving the person they know did not visit is scum then directly into questioning the person they say they town read (WF)
When I get home I will dig a bit but I do not remember them having a position that WF and Thoth were town. And if they did and do hold such a view why are they pushing WF? Can anyone see town progression in this incoherent rollercoaster? Makes about as much sense as their weird certainty that Mikal was scum and Casey was town (which just looks like absolute TMI to me)
Duno what everyone is getting worked up about. Im like 95% sure I claimed Nitrogen when I first revealed. And I have absolutely full claimed my role. Thoth can verify I even told them without being asked that I was a 2 shot which I would have no reason to reveal if I was scum. I bet not a single one of you even bothered to read through my ISO. Not that I blame you. I have zero interest in looking at it myself to see where I voiced that but its really weird I am being painted like I have been any sort of secretive about my claim this game. If anything I claimed my role too early
whiteflame wrote:
Helz, I want you to walk me through your claim. If you did character claim (you may have at some point), I can't seem to find it, so lay out your full claim and remind me of your targets NP1 and NP2.
Im sorry but no. I have full claimed and I was very clear I would not discuss flavor this game. I hate flavor as any AI function and we have already had a town mod killed for screwing around with it. I have seen absolutely nothing of value in anyone flavor details even looking at 8 flips. I was very clear about this D1 and I believe I even said as much before I ever had a role in the end of game chat for the last one I was in if I remember correctly.
My D1 target was Kohai. I wanted to prevent any action on them because they were the innocent child. The kill happened anyways which now makes sense with Mikals flip.
My D2 target was you. I do not believe I even revealed that outside of my chat with Thoth.
N3 I was vandalized. This is part of why I am in the hard position that Thoth is town. I straight up told them I am 2x in our chat. If they were scum then scum would not have targeted me to remove my role. Weird world potential of them thinking I was giving misinformation there but if they felt I was such an extreme risk they could have just moved me around with Mikal and killed me. I will also say that in our chat Thoth tried to trap me which was an excellent look.
Really the PoE is just too tight today. The scum team is exactly Bullish and Mikal. Thoth and WF are lock town imo.
But anyways, gotta work. Will be pretty inactive today. I think the game is pretty much solved though.
