I meant to say "I do not see Casey/Luna as WvW in this situation"
I meant to say "I do not see Casey/Luna as WvW in this situation"
To say it more clearly I should specifically say I Casey/Luna as WvW in this situation. Also of the 2 Luna looks more clear given there is less reason for a S! Luna not aligned with Casey to shove a T! Mag.
This speaks to clearing the PoE into Bullish/Mikal/Casey in my view. Im still locked in on a few other positions but will wait for further interaction to voice what I am seeing.
On the mech side without asking for what people do I would like to hear if people visited Kohai and were blocked or not. That detail will clarify some aspects of the redirection or if we are dealing with some piercing move.
Digging a bit more I am really unsure if a S! Luna would go this far in on Mag to make that happen as well as how it would connect with Luna and Casey teamed following Casey throwing the 3p PoE. These things just do not line up imo.
Entering a world of TownVunkonwn Mag v Casey with Casey throwing a hard FoS on the person that started the train shift I really question if any form of Luna/Casey could be possible. The amount of play required for that to be a deception/WIFOM I just do not believe.
I have quite a few other thoughts but I think I should wait until others post before saying my piece there.
Something I am chewing on is why on earth would S! Luna shift off S! Casey and then Casey drag Luna into a 3p PoE. This does not make sense to me.
Looking at the train progression #728 Luna shifts from Rex to Mag. They cite not wanting to eliminate an inactive but voice a strong level of confidence Mag is scum. I think this is the core origin of the shift in trains which does not look good.
For reads those who do not trust me I feel we should focus on words from WhiteFlame. They seem like a strong town voice and can hopefully slow things down a bit and get them on track.
I generally dislike claims but I would like a full claim from Casey. Really am still scratching my head how they gave nothing yesterday and somehow went from L1 to a side note. I am suspicious of their claim today although its so much of a vague result it means little.
So I see this day phase as being a train wreck. We have Casey who went to L1 and back with small reasoning on either side who is putting a 3p pool saying 1 (or more) scum is in a pool after a confirmed town shifted their train. Then there is me who Mag town read and was really critical of the push on while Kohai had some weird notion that my extremely different role to Mag's was in some way a CC while I used my protect function on Kohai who died.
Im not even sure where to start unpacking this one. My starting PoE would be something like this:
Bullish
Lunatic
Mikal
Casey
Rex
Not really great. I think we should table Thoth and Banana for another day once we resolve somewhere in this pool. I am rather uncertain about Mag1cman but I feel this is about as tight of a POE as I can start with given how EOD1 ended.
I need to actually read the end of day 1. Kinda skimmed it and figured I would be dead today but I thought it was weird as fuck that Casey got pushed to L1, never posted or claimed at all and then somehow the train ended up totally flipping on its head to Mag who flipped town. I think we should start digging there.
Caseys list is of note. Its 3 players I have interest in today but not at all surprised to hear there is a scum between Bullish, Luna, and Mikal.
While I am a bit suspicious of Casey themselves I also see revealing this 3p as a less likely play for scum.
In contrast as powerful as my role is, how powerful I see Mag and Kohai I sorta feel their role seems a bit underpowered balance wise. Would be curious to hear from others what they think about that role existing from a balance stand point.
Kohai should not be dead. I figured I am basically the town protective on crack. Every role to include killing roles should have been neutralized that visited Kohai last night. My best guess is that I was redirected or they were swapped before my action hit. We do not have a formal OoO to work with which makes it more difficult to figure out but host did confirm to me that I stop normal killing roles. Figured Mags function would have been an exception but unless Mafia has some strongman or equal role to what Mag did its simply a redirect that happened.
Bullish wrote:
First let me just explain, I would have been asleep at the time DP1 ended. I specifically set an alarm for 30 minutes before the DP ended, just so I could hammer if needed. At the time casey was the leading wagon so I voted casey. Then I went back to sleep. Had I been present at the very end of the day phase I would have also voted Mago.
Kinda awkward entrance into D2
I probably have about 30 minutes until I am gone for the end of day.
Can you revisit your thought of Mag1c given they weirdly seem to know Bullish is town like TMI style and took a strange position on that?
Mag1cman wrote:
Helz wrote:
Mag1cman wrote:
Helz wrote:
Kohai wrote:
Helz wrote:
Oh my god I am dying right now. This is funny as fuck
??
Dude was railing about how Bullish was town and I need to change my vote arguing about it then posted a vote count and realized I was not even voting them. Its kinda fucking funny.
thought i saw your vote on bullish somewhere. oh well. my points stand, for those who are on bullish's wagon
So gona be real. I dont give a flying fuck if I am killed today. I have real life shit to do anyways.
But why do you care so much about Bullish? Whats up with your focus on that? Can you explain yourself there?
well, he was about to be lynched, and it was going to be a very stupid lynch for reasons i've already stated, which you can find in my ISO
Except he wasn't even about to be lynched at all. Lol.
That detail ignored why do you town read them so hard that your digging in saying "Town will regret it after the flip" in connotation? Like... You sound TMI like you absolutely know they are town. Whats up with that?
Mag1cman wrote:
Helz wrote:
Kohai wrote:
Helz wrote:
Oh my god I am dying right now. This is funny as fuck
??
Dude was railing about how Bullish was town and I need to change my vote arguing about it then posted a vote count and realized I was not even voting them. Its kinda fucking funny.
thought i saw your vote on bullish somewhere. oh well. my points stand, for those who are on bullish's wagon
So gona be real. I dont give a flying fuck if I am killed today. I have real life shit to do anyways.
But why do you care so much about Bullish? Whats up with your focus on that? Can you explain yourself there?
Kohai wrote:
Helz wrote:
Oh my god I am dying right now. This is funny as fuck
??
Dude was railing about how Bullish was town and I need to change my vote arguing about it then posted a vote count and realized I was not even voting them. Its kinda fucking funny.
Mag1cman wrote:
Mikal wrote:
This day is over in the am and half of us are prob about to sleep id imagine. Other than thoth cus he lives in hell. Can we land on what to do. Otherwise plurality may be awkward as fuck if it lands wrong and give scum a chance to land a random lynch
We need to land on something and consolidate on someone.
yup looking at others rn
@Helz jokes aside, it's just simple logic on Bullish. Nothing tmi about it
Ok. So all bullshit aside.
Im confused at your point. You are arguing that Bullish is town. Ok.. Uhh.. Why?
Past that I am not even voting them or pushing for them. They are in my small POE I was considering for the end of day and such. But why are you shoving me on this and rambling about how town this player I am not even voting is? Just what the fuck there?
And past that how about what are your reads. I am pushing Rex. The confirmed town wants it between me, Rex and Bullish in their last post. How about you explain a stance between us you see as holding value.
Like even if you super weirdly awkwardly townread bullish can you explain that? Or maybe explain why me or rex must scum?
Oh my god I am dying right now. This is funny as fuck
Mag1cman wrote:
Helz wrote:
Mag1cman wrote:
so we agree bullish is town then?
No. I question your position starting from knowing that Bullish is town which looks like TMI.
Then I question all the direction you take from there. Please correct me where I am wrong but it seems like your demanding that player is town and then following up with thoughts about how town will react when they flip town.
This is suspect to me.
yup, you got me, I'm scum and I TMI'd that Bullish is town
so can you get off his wagon
Mag1cman wrote:
ah ur on rex's wagon
LOL!!!!
Mag1cman just really caught my attention. Anyone else seeing this? Am I off base here?
Mag1cman wrote:
so we agree bullish is town then?
No. I question your position starting from knowing that Bullish is town which looks like TMI.
Then I question all the direction you take from there. Please correct me where I am wrong but it seems like your demanding that player is town and then following up with thoughts about how town will react when they flip town.
This is suspect to me.
Mag1cman wrote:
Helz wrote:
Mag1cman wrote:
btw if the mafia team needs me pointing out that Bullish is likely town by way of obvious PR behavior, just to figure out that Bullish is a PR, when he literally softed his character, and then claimed his character without claiming his role, then they can just have the hint cause they're clearly gonna need all the hints they can get lol
That was super not helpful to point out...
it is to stop a bullish mislynch
and to restate: If the mafia team needed my help figuring that one out, then they are a weak team who will screw up later anyway. I'm not worried.
I do not even know what level of WIFOM your coming from here but mafia wanting to kill a townie is kinda how it works. Your speaking from some perspective where you know Bullish is town and that post flip the mafia players will look bad for killing them also assuming that mafia made the elemination happen?
There is like so much mental gymnastics I have to do to understand your point it hurts. Best simple reply I can give is "Wut..."
Mag1cman wrote:
btw if the mafia team needs me pointing out that Bullish is likely town by way of obvious PR behavior, just to figure out that Bullish is a PR, when he literally softed his character, and then claimed his character without claiming his role, then they can just have the hint cause they're clearly gonna need all the hints they can get lol
That was super not helpful to point out...
Probably dead tonight now but eyh. Fuck it
Kohai wrote:
I'll probably be voting between the three of you. I want each of you to at least claim something.
I role block everyone that targets a player neutralizing everything.
RexFavilla wrote:
However, I am seriously saying it now: thinking this is how I play as scum and not exploring other reasons I could be acting erratic is retarded. I don't think Helz is retarded. I think he is looking for excuses to scum read me and is not at all steelmanning my case. I think he is also playing defensive and reacted oddly to my random FOS.
VTL: Helz
Great story.
Can you explain your own behavior? I can explain every post I have made an why but you seem to really struggle to explain your own posts throwing out "Well it was a joke" now that you are a serious option for the EOD elimination.
RexFavilla wrote:
Like, Im just really stuck on how Rex could have the position that its unreasonable to not be town read with a few bullshit RVS posts followed by a massive chain of questionable reasoning.
If it was just a joke and you were just doing reaction tests why did you not say as much 20 hours ago?
Like, Im just really stuck on how Rex could have the position that its unreasonable to not be town read with a few bullshit RVS posts followed by a massive chain of questionable reasoning.
A lot of what I try to do as town is understand how someone has drawn the conclusions they have and with them specifically I hit a hard wall of "this person is just faking a position and flailing when questioned"
Its not just that one time. There is multiple pieces where they draw conclusions I just do not get. Like Me being aligned with Mikal. Just look at the end game thread where I ramble for literal weeks about how much I hate angleshooting https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/endgames/posts/5o/amber-endgame
Im pretty clear about exactly how I feel about that. I can quote myself from that thread but it feels dirty even dragging that into this discussion.
Rex was discussing*
Words are hard sometimes
Kohai wrote:
Helz wrote:
Thoth wrote:
I am not disagreeing, but weird positions and shortposting are NAI for Rex, especially on day 1.
I get you. But just look at this one little piece
#9 RVS vote
#16 Doubling down on the RVS vote for giggles
#23 Correcting their vote so the vote counter accepts it
#124 Blank vote on me
These are the posts Rex made before declaring that Kohai had to be either retarded or scum and must be killed because they did not recognize Rex was town.
Who can unpack that logic? Look at those posts and someone explain to me how this can come from anything but a flatly lying fake position. Its absolute made up reasoning with zero potential of any basis in logic.
Give me your thoughts on p#169. This is the singular post that has me questioning rex.
In context it was Mag discussing Mag talking about a game on MS. Not even related to this game unless I am missing something.
Mag was explaining a mafia doc that was useless and a loyal vig and they threw out that post. I am not even sure how that post connects to this game.
Im beating a dead horse but my mind is kinda blown at how this is not flagrantly apparent.
Its not a question of if the dude lied. its a question of why. And if we want to dive down that road lets examine what town reason they would have had for lying and why they did not come clean about it later.
