Helz


Thoth wrote:
I am not disagreeing, but weird positions and shortposting are NAI for Rex, especially on day 1.

I get you. But just look at this one little piece


#9 RVS vote

#16 Doubling down on the RVS vote for giggles

#23 Correcting their vote so the vote counter accepts it

#124 Blank vote on me


These are the posts Rex made before declaring that Kohai had to be either retarded or scum and must be killed because they did not recognize Rex was town.


Who can unpack that logic? Look at those posts and someone explain to me how this can come from anything but a flatly lying fake position. Its absolute made up reasoning with zero potential of any basis in logic.

Helz


Thoth wrote:
I completely disagree that the Mikal/Helz catfight looked contrived. Mikal loves angleshooting and Helz hates it. We knew that since way before this game. Worst-case scenario is that they exaggerated a show out of the argument they would have had anyway.

My real take there is that given how much I absolutely hate angleshooting and the bullshit Mikal pulled somehow some way Rex still manages to frame this as a scum read and to suggest I am teamed with them. Really.


Take a moment and look at the positions Rex has taken and how illogical they are.

Helz

Im still stuck on Rex initial "Kohai is scum for not recognizing I am town" when they had like 2 RVS votes, one post fixing a vote and a fluff post.


I duno if I am gona get around that issue even ignoring all the opportunistic scummy things I see later on

Helz

Im borderline vote parking.


Will re-evaluate when I get back but gotta do this podcast thing I forgot I agreed to do for an hour or so.


Really though. I would love to hear how anyone can look at Rex's thought process and connect dots. It pings me quite a bit and should be discussed. Their position they should be town read from blank RVS votes and such was awful and they keep doubling down with nonsensical reasoning that screams agenda.

Helz

Like really, Me bitching about OOG communication makes me somehow team scum with Mikal? Yet other people doing the same is just normal. Now me pushing the confirmed town to run things and advising is me slobbing on their knob as a scum trying to manipulate?


That thing you said earlier about how every time you post I scum read you more. I am feeling that for real right now.

Helz


RexFavilla wrote:
Does it feel like Helz has been excessively buttering Kohai up ever since he was confirmed town to anyone else?

If executioner is possible I feel like its you.


Every single thing I do or say you paint as if I am evil. From speaking to confirmed town to arguing about disliking angle shooting. You really look like you have a crazy agenda at this point.

Helz


Kohai wrote:

Helz wrote:
I can only say that I do not at all understand cutting Rex and Bullish from that pool.

Thats two positions that I would put miles ahead of names like Banana, Shining, Casey, Lunatic. Your throwing in absolute neutrals over players actively scum read with solid reasoning and I think you should consider as much. Thats my 2 cents

I’m not counting them out as potential scum. I am saying that these two probably should not be the lynch for today.

Bullish - I do town read him openly claiming his character like that.

Rex - Again I mentioned that I do think that he may have genuinely town slipped.

It seems like we are pairing an inactive blank slot with someone people scum read.


I would add in Banana, Casey, Mag1cman and Mikal if we are just gona smite on low contribution. And I would also consider what value the result gives you. Sure lots of people have taken positions on Mag. I think Banana, Bulish, Luna, Mag1cman, and Thoth have all scum read them to some extent. But what do you get on the other side post flip?

Helz

I can only say that I do not at all understand cutting Rex and Bullish from that pool.


Thats two positions that I would put miles ahead of names like Banana, Shining, Casey, Lunatic. Your throwing in absolute neutrals over players actively scum read with solid reasoning and I think you should consider as much. Thats my 2 cents

Helz


Kohai wrote:
Kinda want to clear Bullish, or at least put him in my "do not lynch today" column.

POE that I'm looking at today:

Lunatic
Shining
Casey
Banana
Mag1cman
Magoroth
Helz


I think you should take your mantel as confirmed town and run shit. Listen to the advice you are given and ask for it but you made the decision to be the D1 confirmed town and need to control the direction of the elimination imo.

Helz


Kohai wrote:

Helz wrote:

Kohai wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:
I don't fault Mikal for being honest about his read, I fault Thoth for PMing him outside the game to talk about it which is extremely banned in any mafia game.

Im entertaining a Mikal/Helz scum team because this OGI slapfight seems like something a scum team would use to distance with no danger of actually lynching the other player. Does it feel a bit contrived to anyone else?

I doubt w!Mikal clears thoth like that.

I am suspicious of Helz
Well ask me anything. I am working on a readwall and we should be locking into EOD targets

Who is your biggest SR and why? I see you are currently on Rex. Who would be your second choice for lynch?

Im on Rex but chewing on something. Mag, Shining, Bullish, Mag1cman is largly where my D1 pool is. I would like to say Mag1cian would be my second but I feel biased there with a playstyle clash. I want to dig into that more.


I know Thoth has been thrown around as an option but I disagree it should be the move.

Helz


Kohai wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:
I don't fault Mikal for being honest about his read, I fault Thoth for PMing him outside the game to talk about it which is extremely banned in any mafia game.

Im entertaining a Mikal/Helz scum team because this OGI slapfight seems like something a scum team would use to distance with no danger of actually lynching the other player. Does it feel a bit contrived to anyone else?

I doubt w!Mikal clears thoth like that.

I am suspicious of Helz

Well ask me anything. I am working on a readwall and we should be locking into EOD targets

Helz


Mikal wrote:
I aint bullshitting reads to appease you or anyone. I got a discord message from thoth and yes that is going to impact how I see him. Not going to fabricate some retarded reason to townread when I've been saying hes scummy. He basically townslipped outside of the game. Cry me a river.

I will. I will cry a river about you taking out of game information and vomiting it into the game making me consider shit I should not think about and I will wish that the staff was more strict about allowing this behavior. I will cry about you disrespecting the spirit of the game and again tell you to grow the fuck up and learn to play without angling for these advantages. You are better than this. Please just stop and grow as a player. I really was you at one point but I grew to understand the harm I was causing selfishly and I stopped.

Helz

Sorry. Anyways we should get our ducks in a row for the EoD. Two trains would be optimal and I will dump my thoughts on players. If we can have more engagement it would help.

Helz


Mikal wrote:
Lowkey. Ogi reading thoth as town.

Just messaged me on discord asking who connor was. As scum its likely someone would know that

I am kinda sick of this. Its a fucking game man. You can play it without taking every single possible advantage and bending rules as far as hosts will allow without them smiting you. Why do you have to go so far constantly to shit on the structure of the game?

Grow the fuck up and learn to play a clean game man. This is not even AI and maybe your town and have a valid town read but holy shit man this is just nonstop toxic that hurts players experiences. You dont like hearing about others disliking that your dragging in OOG communication into this game? Maybe just do not do that shit?


You have solid potential and remind me of me 10 years back when I angled for any possible advantage and I really do hope you move past that. As of now I see you as a harmful player to others experiences and someone who Hosts have to tolerate and question how much mod action they should take to preserve game integrity. That fucking sucks. For pretty much everyone but you. This is just selfish and I would beg you to please stop. You can be better than this and its just not worth the advantage to pull this shit.


I now town read you for reasons I absolutely hate and I want to be on this site less because of the way you are playing. Just stop.

Helz


Mikal wrote:
Epsc since its grandstanding when I mentioned discord activity, immediately get ogi shit and "oh look not this again"

But let's ignore the person that threw a few games ago and is basically saying he wont cooperate with town again as some positive or allowed trait

😴

I duno why you are so stuck on that. My challenge had absolutely nothing to do with me refusing to claim what type of protective I was. My death resulted from towns refusal to accept anything other than that detail (which still, nobody can explain why it mattered at all) as I begged for people to read me and ask me anything. There was no gamethrow and in hindsight my claiming would have done nothing but harm my win condition and town woulda killed me anyways given a self protection role would have looked scummy. Thats not on me and its not a gamethrow at all. Just me refusing to make a bad play if its demanded of me.


Im back to digging, will try to consolidate a read wall but have to have a meeting soon and will be in and out.

Helz

@Kohai

I would very much like to hear more from you prior to EOD as well. You are our confirmed town and I am seeing a super soft early position on Mag/Thoth, an early town lean on WF and a mixed neutral/scum read on Rex.


I get you are busy, My tomorrow is also rather fucked but with the fact your confirmed town we could really use some thoughts.

Helz

Shining-

I don’t see much to work with from them. They have some totally NAI comments on mech and angleshooting. Probably their most substantial post is #216 taking a neutral stance on Thoth, town stance from meta/gut on WF and questioning the scum read people have on Thoth.

There really is just not much there. This is a player I would love to hear more from before days end because I see very little to either read them from or for me to understand what they are reading.

Helz

Banana-

Their initial position on Thoth seems in line with what I have seen from them in the past. That and their thoughts on Whiteflames balance speculation seems NAI.  It progresses into a slight town lean from what I see.

I did like their #301 picking up on Bullish’s sensitivity to being voted. It’s a pretty fair and original thought although I have yet to see S! Banana to know if it could be painting.

They stay logical with #303 pushing back on Mag1cmans position of Mag = scum if lurky which I rather like. While they seem to circle back to a scum lean on Mag they are actively questioning others taking a scum stance which speaks to a lack of agenda or blind effort to shove/paint them.


Decent takes although I have the bias that their logical mind lines up with how I think. There is nothing I see in this slot that’s suspicious and their level of paranoia seems healthy. Would be nice to see quite a bit more from them as we near EOD elimination @Banana

Helz


Magoroth wrote:
I think Bullish is scum

I am catching up now and going back into unpacking my thoughts on players. I am curious to hear why you feel this way though.


They pinged me on a thing or three I have not said but if your around I would not mind hearing your thoughts before I post my own.

Helz


Mikal wrote:
Explain your limitations in detail?

That one I made after the game started. It was to get neutral read with the bonus of flipping the game pretending to be neutral at the end of game. I figured being mid read allowed to block Mafia from connecting with a lost wolf as I hunted for flagging from either side and I was also looking for mafia attempts to buddy me if they thought I was neutral. It was a challenge that lined up well with my win condition and made me push myself but did not impact the bad elimination as I was killed for not giving the detail of what exact kind of protective I was.

Helz

RexFavilla-

Comes in hot. #9 votes the first person participating and doubles down #16. Less likely WvW between Rex v Mag here. I see the positive of breaking RVS but also the flat out aggression that could be NAI.


#156 they come back with the first thing that pinged me. “Kohai is being retarded might be up for killing him.” The thing of note here is the flat goal of killing. Not pressuring for info or anything else. This looks like an intention indicator to flatly eliminate that tracks from a scum prespective. To consider why we look at #157 where they expect to be town read. And keep in mind how they voice it “Do you think Kohai is scummy for not being able to see how town I am? Or do you think he is just bad at reading people?” Wow. That’s some certainty. Lets take a moment and unpack what Kohai had to work with at that point reviewing Rex’s posts:

#9 RVS vote

#16 Doubling down on the RVS vote for giggles

#23 Correcting their vote so the vote counter accepts it

#124 Blank vote on me


What part of these postings makes it retarded for Kohai to not town read them? And to the point Kohai should die? Who could possibly read Rex as town with those posts so far? What logic could possibly exist? I see absolutely nothing. But whatever. Maybe they are just being overly aggressive to break RVS?


Kohai gets mod confirmed as IC. Then I question what their reasoning was for their stance that they should have been town read and why I look suspicious to them knowing they just shoved 2 players I know are town. Their response is vague and shades me saying its scummy for me to even ask then later framing my questioning as being defensive. So lets look at how they could have scum read me from my posts:

#62 I voice my challenge (that I decided prior to game start) and point out that the mafia team having questions has bearing on Thoth’s claim

#75 I clarify why I make such challenges

#80 I clarify why #62 has implications on Thoth’s claim

#84 I explain how I saw mafia night kill dynamics playing into Thoths claim and open that PoE back up

#121 I push Mag1cman for a questionable read on Thoth


So what part of this justifies me being scummy? Vague feeling and all. Then I get voted. Again These are the posts they had to work with at the time of their read. While I think their “Kohai should be killed because they did not town read me” was absolutely unreasonable I can at least slightly see me being scum read for not trusting Thoth and pushing Mag1cian? Its also a bit of a reach but hey, breaking RVS and such is a thing. Now we dive into their interactions.

#158 They question the Mago pressure. A bit early for me to consider a chainsaw play but logic follows given their focus on me leading me to take this post as aligned.

#212 is where I shove Rex for reasoning. #218 they respond that they had a vibe on the town confirmed slot and that me asking for reasoning was scummy. (Which is a very odd position) They double down saying because they are town they should have been read as such almost entering TSTBS territory and felt that I was overexplaining myself which is at least reasonable.

#288 is the first sign of town I really see. A frustration at the IC reveal after mentioning it before and it does feel genuine even if its going ATE.

#289 is just invalidating logical points and shifting the subject to a ‘You scum read me because Kohai decided to pop his IC, Not because of my absurd stance on Kohai’ narrative which I dislike greatly.


Summing it up I do not see much consistent thought in their positions. It really feels like they have intention to kill with little consideration or logic reflecting an intention tell and their purported reads just feel fake to me.

Helz

Whatever man. Heres how far I got on my Rex read. If you want to try to force others to play the exact way you want and blame them when they do not for your poor decision thats your choice. Tell me more about how I was the wrong one there for not revealing a factor that would have changed nothing as the player base ignored any analysis and just wanted the erroneous detail of a claim.

Helz


Mikal wrote:
Both you and mag trigger me with that shit. Social justice game integrity bull shit

"But kill me over and over. I dont care. I will never claim and abide by this because blah blah"

Done with vent but if you do that shit from solo leveling again. Im fine with meeting you in principal just to stop it from happening

Its alright. And I will say you can expect this from me over and over again. I will always play to my win condition even if I place limitations on myself. But lets not pretend the Solo Leveling incident had anything to do with the limitations I have placed on myself. Thats simply not true.

Helz


Mikal wrote:

Helz wrote:
Casey_Risk-
Really easy one with only one point I will make. Their reaction #196 could reflect their position for hating my principled play style. I take a position and I die on that hill. They hate it and do not understand how inflexible I am on certain things. This could be a slight town indicator given prior history although I would very much like to hear more from them.

Probably the only thing I have seen so far worth mentioning but their reaction was something worth being looked at.

I think a lot of people have those thoughts and are just to nice to say it. The fact in solo leveling you refused to claim because of principle and just died to prove a point and now you are saying you are setting yourself some weird rules and will die on a hill for it is retarded. The fact you are so inflexible should get you policy lynched over and over and over until you stop being retarded. So here's hoping you actually dont do dumb shit.

So, This post is not game related as far as this game but I have to give a hard "Fucking hell no" here.


I got killed in Solo Leveling because I would not claim the exact specific type of protective I was. Nobody on this site can even begin to explain why that could have been AI. I claimed everything and begged my side chat to explain how much I had given in side chat and begged people to ask me anything and I could explain- and this site only cared about that one specific detail. Thats just toxic site meta. And it had nothing to do with my challenge. Lets not confuse these things or excuse them.


Thats my opinion. It was just absolute shit play by the town there ignoring any analysis and demanding claim information that did not (and even in hind sight) would not have helped solve anything at all while I died on that hill because I knew it and it would just be damaging to the towns potential in the future.

Helz

Casey_Risk-

Really easy one with only one point I will make. Their reaction #196 could reflect their position for hating my principled play style. I take a position and I die on that hill. They hate it and do not understand how inflexible I am on certain things. This could be a slight town indicator given prior history although I would very much like to hear more from them.


Probably the only thing I have seen so far worth mentioning but their reaction was something worth being looked at.