Helz

So I am going to unpack what just happened in Guild chat. Wryly just pushed me hard for a role claim. I offered over and over to unpack anything that I have done and any of what my reads are and they had no interest. I told them my other item was a protective function and they demanded details. I let them know that hoping they would understand why I did not want to reveal that.

Now they out that here. So I just asked the host if I can leave the guild. Honestly that just sucked. But it will give you guys reference on exactly why the fuck I was unwilling to reveal that part of my role. Now Wryly demands more details and wants to kill me while they have zero interest in hearing what my reads are or any of my motives I could very openly talk about in guild chat? Fuck em. If I am allowed to leave the guild I will soon be a free agent. (Sorry Luna)

Dick move revealing that here. Just kill me if thats what you want to do but what you just said is nothing but damaging to town.

For the record, I don't buy "I told the guild I'm going to pretend to be 3P" as a reason why you can't be 3P. Saying pregame that you are going to open wolf also has nothing to do with what alignment you would eventually be assigned.

I would just say "exactly."

The fact that before the game even started and I had an alignment I declared I would open wolf this game. That does say something that I kept my word and absolutely conveys that I had intention to do so before having my alignment.

As to if I told my guild over and over that I was shading myself as 3p feel free to ask my guild mates. They can confirm that all day easily.

Do what you want with that but just Ctrl+F on discord mafia server and search 'open wolf' and you will see my interaction with pie.

For what it's worth, Helz, I still see a world where you are 3P and Rex is mafia as possible. Shining's claim hasn't gotten past me and I'm sure he's mafia as well. I'm actually more sure he's mafia than I am of you, but I'm sure you are not town and if I'm wrong, resolving your slot now helps resolve Rex in the future.

Yeah, I did put in a good bit of work to make people think I was 3p. I won't disclose all my nonsense but either of my guild mates can tell you how many times in chat I was talking about encouraging that view by the town.

I don't think Wyrly is an insane cop. It doesn't make sense for the character to be insane. What would make sense is if she was paranoid. She actually thinks both hunters and monsters smell bad. All beings with magical power smell bad to her. The sole exception is Sung Jinwoo. If we are to assume she's paranoid to everyone but SJW, that would mean mafia bus drove Alyssa and SJW NP1. Given who I think SJW is, I could buy this. If we take this approach to Wyrly's power, then there doesn't have to be a mole in the guild. But this also requires us to continue down the path of mass claiming to decide if a paranoid cop is likely.

I really do not think Insane cop is possible on this site. Its just too bastard. If nobody here has played with it its a low chance of being in the game.

In guild chat he explicitly said odd night tracker? That doesn't match what he said in day chat.

I am not sure what hairs you are splitting here. My claim is that last night I asked my daddy for some goggles. He gave them to me and I can use them tonight. You can split hairs on the semantics of what you call that but generally odd night imo means every other night.

I can also ask for another item. Thats the half I will take to my grave. Just got done getting into it with Wryly in guild chat about that. (Rex is still a ghost)

ty for the reads. the only thing i am curious about tho is that rex isn't in your scum reads. if u dont think there is a scum in ur guild chat, what do u think happened with the results?

Well the most likely thing I initially considered was an insane modifier on Wyrly. Something that reverses or randomizes their checks and gives bad info. I later drew the conclusion that is simply to bastard to be in the game.

Then I dug more and was looking at the odds. For there to be a mole there has to be some role that just got lucky N1 framing a scum as town, then Rex has to be scum as Wyrly joined D2 and fed their team info to paint their target N2. Which I have looked and I do not feel Wyrly even clearly projected their target to begin with. It was an out of context post saying "Confirmed Pie" without really looking like much of anything. I had shoved the guild multiple times to keep their actions vague because of this very situation being possible. That we should bounce ideas off etchother and consider possibilities but even Lunatic understood the importance of not even confirming if they would recruit, protect, or allow night actions.

how would they have known wryly was the cop to do that?

While I feel their target was rather unclear. They spoke about multiple players, they did clearly claim an alignment check.

rex ghosting u feels like it could be telling. maybe he is the mole.

Its possible. Would also be possible for Wyrly to be scum giving fake results but thats a pretty stupid play imo to the degree that I very much doubt it and all their behavior makes me feel they are town. As I was bouncing ideas off them they were constantly giving me context on players meta and details for me to consider and sort. Then they were genuinely upset with me when I flatly said I am not going to reveal half my role and that I am totally fine getting eliminated and getting out of the game.

I mean, there is kinda this feeling you can get interacting with people in real time. My take was that they were frustrated with me for not getting with the sites meta and it felt really towny. If not for their silly action record they would be lock town for me.

rex ghosting u feels like it could be telling. maybe he is the mole.

So this is my entire issue in this situation. Pie shoved this idea of a mole in everyones heads. He is playing for his secondary win condition gunning for a guild. I recognized that as he was pressured to reveal and kept laying the ground work to cast shade on the guild and I called it out over and over. It had nothing to do with their defence. While I think the potential of a mole may exist I simply do not feel its that likely. If Wyrly had not already had the bad check on Alyssa I would be more paranoid but 'if' there is a mole yes I do believe it would be Rex.

They stepped outside of the plan to push Pie where I was building a case to push with analysis instead of someone claiming an action and they went Leeroy Jinkins out of left field with no warning making the claim. Then they turned on me right after I was generating as much pressure as I could on Pie to help insulate or alignment cop from getting too involved and having to reveal. Then they screwed the pooch and revealed the whole team.

Shining seems like the play imo today and I am less interested in vetting my guild members for now. I question the entire assumption that the guild must have a rat. But I also have thousands of posts interacting with my guild that you guys do not. And I am really not kidding when I say that our guild chat is bigger than the entire game thread easily.

The other thing I would say is town should probably chill on the paranoia of the guild being compromised. Its of critical note that Wyrly's first confirmed wrong check happened before they joined the guild. Their second bad chick was after they joined the guild. Having two bad checks is interesting.

I think its simply much more likely they are being targeted by something that screws with their result than something screwed with their first target then the guild was corrupt and it was intentional. After I flip town if the town if the town stays paranoid about this your just going to end up gutting the guild. I think thats a bad idea. I did bring this up to my members after the nonesnse started. Talked with Wyrly a bit but Rex was just ghosted the chat. Even if they basically got me killed I think its a bad idea to chase down the guild over some half cooked paranoid feeling that there might be a rat even as it makes little sense.

Btw- You guys have no idea how much of a pain in the ass its been to work around all the nicknames and real life names and old account names randomly used by everyone. I get this is a small community but fucking hell. Even the hosts opening thread is scrambled with that stuff. Just saying.

Quite honestly I am more mad that my guild mates did this to me. I get the town not town reading me. I intentionally worked to be a mid range read and encourage paranoia that I could be 3p and such. My guild mates had easily over a thousand posts from me as I dug and chewed on concepts and voiced some of the technical bits about what I was doing and why. They saw that I was really hunting and putting in some crazy work this game. That really sucks.

Now it looks like I am being lynched and theres hardly even a case on me. Nothing I can address. Its frustrating for sure but I am good with it. At the very least you are pushing me for info that you can follow up with after I flip.

sure, who do you think is likly the scum partner of shining and why

Probably between Casey Risk, Shining, or Awesome. Was working through a PoE. Still has not changed sense the day started although you could throw in WF and Kohai as potentials I was much less interested than Awesome or Casey Risk. (Btw, Amaizing its taken this long for someone to ask me for my reads. Lol...)

Town

ILikePie5 is almost certainly town. The flip can mostly verify without even bothering to have guild members reveal

Mag1cian is likely town unless as scum they pulled a gambit fake claiming poisoned after a kill failed or something

Vader is almost certainly town. Zero clue why the hell they outed themselves as doc but it is what it is

Mestari is town for very angleshooty reasons I unpacked D1. Still kinda hate that such information was not controlled btw.

Lean town

Wyrly is probably town although it irks me to no end that they have somehow managed to get 2 separate alignment checks that were both wrong. I did like their interaction after the shitshow started in our guild chat though.

Banana looks town from their interactions and read wall. The initial list 814 D1 was of note. Never really dug into them and never felt a reason to.

Rex I would give the benefit of a doubt for now. They did something really stupid today thats going to cost the town and ran away and hid afterwards instead of trying to vet me for any useful info and such but that is what it is. Some people have that conflict avoidance thing. I do very much dislike their modified miller function as they claimed invest results against them are randomized. Their role also had me scratch my head a bit but its not a big deal. Largely the participation I have seen from them looks town but I have been paranoid about them sense the moment I got in the guild.

Null

WhiteFlame I just would never trust. Their range seems too high and I am paranoid. What they say looks good but at their level I would imagine thats childs play so I do not have confidence in reading them yet

Kohai is one I go back and forth on. One moment I am pinged by them and the next I see them do something solid. They were something for me to dig on tommorow.

Awesome pretty lurky and the contributions they give are pretty soft. Easily within range of being a scum coasting through the day's doing just enough to get by. While I do not have a reason to actively scum read them I also do not have any reason to town read them. Duno why the town is so tolerant there and pressure is so weak

Casey Risk Rubs me the wrong way. I was hoping to push them today but they did not show up that I noticed.

Scum

Shining- Their claim is nonsense. I do consider my role weak. Shinings is absurdly weak. It would be one thing if they were a 1 shot lightning rod but were a character. I could buy that. But having to get recruited into a guild to use a 1 shot ability that just attracts actions to you? There is just no way.

i mean ur not completely wrong but what we do works. a lot of ppl dont like it but cant knock a working strategy

Seems like it works some of the time. Also seems like its blowing up in the towns face this time around.

All this just reeks of you having received a fake character claim, looking up the character, and trying to retrofit a role to it that you either knew wasn’t in the game or believed wouldn’t be based on Luna’s role. Alyssa and Thoth played it more conservative with their claims, but they had the same partially divorced from the reality of the show feel to them, just right enough to think they’re plausible but with a lot of problems to consider.

I have not bothered looking up the show past a quick google search of characters. All I know about my flavor is that I am some rich kid who ends up doing guild stuff. My role is asking daddy for items that let me do things. Do whatever you want with that.

I'm tired af, what is it you want me to confirm? If Helz offered to claim but Lunatic said he didn't have to? It happened before I joined, but yeah. Helz said he preferred not to claim because he couldn't completely trust Rex or future guildies, but if Lunatic demanded the info he would give it. Lunatic said he wouldn't force Helz to claim unless he had reason to scumread him. Rex claimed shortly after. Then I joined and claimed the next day.

It was actually both before and after you joined. The subject came up 3 times in chat from my memory.

I have not had any results. 2 Recruiting blocks. Yesterday I prepped to use tracker asking my daddy for some fancy goggles.

On SC2 would more be called a detective. But the thing of knowing if their action succeeded or not is not normal there either.

To be clear I am not a motion detector. I specifically am told who a player targets and if their action succeeded or not.

I am not told what the action is. Its a modified tracker.

Hell, you even got a picture of me at a bar yesterday while we were bullshitting about whatever

Well the 6th was the murder trial stuff. Yesterday I was pounding alcohol. The first time it clicked in my head was whenever you posted the link to show you had voiced it before.

Im not sure what possible scum motivation I could have for 'acting shocked' at some point but a lot of the discord stuff I have been skimming and half interacting between drinks and such. Do what you want with that but you asked me a question and I gave you an honest response from memory. Figured that time you gave a link to show we had talked about it was the moment I remember having the discussion.

Yeah, Insane is kinda bastard. It can randomize or it can just invert results.

Part of what I questioned for you given the track record. Decided it was probably too bastard to be in the game.

I get that. Im just saying that I did have a moment where it clicked and you responded providing a link to reference that you had talked about it. If you are questioning if I knew that would be the moment that it clicked for me.

I think there was some legit reasoning for it. Its a rather weird assumption and take. Most of what Thoth said seemed to have some connection to details they knew were in the game. Then we have the aspect that there was a developed player into the ant king.

This (and the fact there is not an additional KPN in a 17p game) made me feel that them giving a pool reflected them having some mech info on who might become their Ant King. This is part of why I feel we are looking at a 3p mafia and not a 2p today. It makes sense for balance and otherwise Thoth making such a position is out of place regardless of if they replaced all the names and such.

I really do not remember when the day was. It could have been yesterday. I do specifically remember you responding by quoting an earlier post. If you really want to know the exact time I could dig it out of discord.

From memory I even questioned why you did not fight to defend them. If I had a hard inno I would be shouting it. Good thing you did not in hindsight but yeah, I did not take note of you having such a claim which bothered me because I am usually pretty quick to pick up on things even when I am not trying.

You're such a stickler for detail though. I can't believe I told you I had a result, you acknowledged it, but then you didn't press for more.

At the time, I hadn't revealed my role yet. I just said I investigated Alyssa. I'm wondering if you asked no follow-up questions because you were wary I was actually a Tracker or a Watcher and had seen Alyssa visit Mag1c.

So I really have been half assing this game. Those two days in particular I had an entire murder trial going on. I was popping in and out on my phone but I was not exactly focused on the game.

You can make whatever assumption you want there but there is a reason earlier today I was like "Wait, what? You had an inno on Alyssa?" That was the first time the information actually registered to me. You even had to link a previous post in the chat to show me that you had said as much.

Who is more likely to be scum: Wryly or REF and why

Tough question.

Wryly seems so much more town from their behavior. Their reaction to what I voiced in chat even approaching my situation was very towny but they also have much worse mech results. An inno on a flipped mafia and a guilty on a confirmed town? Its just ugly. But every bit of their play looks like town to me.

I would suspect Rex more. The modified miller mechanic claim up front was bad. They have kinda half lurked and while I was unpacking my thoughts and hunting both Lunatic and Wryly generally engaged and gave thoughts. Rex kinda popped in and out here and there. I never got much of a feeling of them pushing original thoughts into the chat and more that they were hanging around and existing. While I do not have strong reason to hunt them as scum I will also say that as this situation unfolded I pinged them to offer to ask me anything in real time on discord. They have pretty much ghosted sense what they said on this thread until they gave the X-post later. They had no interest in interacting with me.

Could be a personality trait of conflict avoidance? Also feels like they blew up our team intentionally when considering we kinda had a plan of how to push you with reasoning and reads before they went leroy jinkins and just claimed a peek.

Why were you so unaccepting of the security threat to our guild implied by my false result on Pie? I wanted to come clean immediately after Pie revealed himself as the true Hunters leader. Rex resisted at first but then eventually came around. You were mad as all get out, said it was a total mistake, and refused to even admit that Pie was town confirmed.

I mentioned it. I did not dig. I was having a great time in our chat and figured I could sort the players outside of our chat before sorting the players inside of it. As things progressed today I have brought up multiple times that you have had 2 bad results. An inno on a flipped mafia and a guilty on a town. I did not push you sure. But I was not remotely ignoring that fact and repeatedly brought it up in our chat as different factors were argued.

I woulda been much more paranoid if not for your bad result on Alyssa before joining the guild. I even at one point brought up that you may be an insane alignment cop. While I did not follow up in our chat I did mention it in this game thread and drew the conclusion that its a bit unlikely given that its generally considered bastard. But if you want my thoughts on it yeah- Its super super unlikely that you got your results fucked twice and one of them being before you were even in the guild.

Im unsure there. Rex has been kinda distant in the guild chat. They are not super active and pop in and out here and there but I was always skeptical of them because of the modified miller claim. It seemed like they opened with a way to give themselves an out if investigated and their role was kinda mid in a way that made sense.

From the moment things started to the end I was skeptical and Wryly can confirm. While I never voiced confidence our chat was pure and I constantly voiced some level of paranoia I also never hunted our own.

Yeah, somehow I missed it. I was doing a lot around that period of time. Really hurting for time and I was not vetting our discord chat.

To be fair I probably have 1-2k posts there and the chat on our discord is probably much larger than the chat in all the game threads combined. Is what it is.

Why is Yoo Jinho a Tracker?

I have no fucking clue man. I ask my daddy for goggles and he gives them to me next phase so I can track someone. I have not watched the show and know nothing about it.

Thoth made a joke earlier in the game about reframing things referencing 'sister' and step sister'

Really obvious dirty connotation. I believe prior to that I screwed with them about it in a post or two but was also trying to bait the suspicion on me of being 3p. At the time in guild chat 3p was a decent discussion and the main dude seemed to be the one suspected while Thoth was claiming the guys sister. Kinda shitty humor but with an angle.