Helz

Also feel free to tell the town if a single thing I said you feel is untrue from guild chat.

Duno how many ways to say that I do not give a fuck. Kill me if thats all you care about.

Gave you an open door in guild chat to grill me for info if you think I will flip scum. Feel free to milk me for all the info you want.

For post flip this really was my PoE entering D3

I am rather interested in these players today-

ILikePie5

Whiteflame

Awesome

Casey Risk

Shining

Pie is obviously out. I quite like WF's mitigation. No fucking clue how people are ignoring Shining bullshit claim.

Anyways. AMA open before you guys hammer me for not just working with your meta giving a full claim as you mech junkies demand information without considering whats good or AI. I will try to stick around for a bit.

Then kill me. You will never get a full claim from me and there is nothing scummy about it.

So to start I was given an invite to join a guild. My role I considered weak. I felt that the benefit of having a confirmed town with a chat was much more of an asset to me. I prefer to win games though actually being good instead of taking a lucky action anyways. Pre-game I even flatly told Pie I intended on open wolfing. https://discord.com/channels/1390507525673189466/1390511970310033428/1488710968019259473 (Discord link to the post) They said they would insta lynch and I said "Challenge accepted." Woulda pulled this shit regardless of my alignment roll. (Eyh Pie, You did not do it brah~)

Something about me personally I have said multiple times in my guild chat- I got tired of winning a long time ago. Now I set challenges for myself to make things interesting. This was one of them. I very specifically wanted to open wolf and when I rolled town I decided it would be fun to see if I could invert the game. Glorious situation when someone is viewed as 3p in Lylo and becomes kingmaker then demands the other players argue about who is more scummy as opposed to more town. Those were my goals for this game. I feel I was on track with people suspecting me so much as 3p. I bet a handful of you do not even know why you think I am 3p instead of mafia with all the bullshit I was doing : )

Over and over through my guild chat I voiced effort to be viewed as 3p. As people suspected me I reinforced their suspicion. Was actually a point of humor that I had to work so hard to be suspected that we had a lot of banter about in guild chat. I did a lot of work there trying to be midrange read insulating myself from KPN and setting up for a potential glorious 3p claim that would have been fucking epic and hilarious. Either of my guild mates can verify this and its not hard to see it if you Iso me as I constantly ramble about wanting to eat your children and how I am the most evil. At some point D1 I think someone even called me out and I said something along the lines of "Holy fucking shit what does it take to be scum read in this community" as I was also trying to play a lynchbait move D1 that did not pan out. Idea being you make yourself look scummy and bait an opportunistic wolf to bite then you dig. Kinda some FPS bullshit but very effective D1 strategy imo.

As our guild chat started I voiced heavy concerns about us outing roles and projecting intended actions. I was very up front about the fact that our discord chat would allow anyone joining after the fact would mean they can read anything posted and we should hide such information as it gives us no benefit. I also created a plan that even the guild leaders action should be vague. They should not confirm exactly what they will do but instead take advice from the guild on what should be done.

Rex claimed Miller right off the bat as well as their action. Not sure if they have claimed it but no good in me saying what that is. This is something I never let go of. I voiced to Lunatic that at any moment they wanted they could demand my claim and I would give it to them. I also cautioned that I did not think it was a good play.

N1 Lunatic asked me if I felt we should recruit or use actions. I voiced that developing more power for the town was what I favored. I flatly voiced that I felt my power was underwhelming and not worth not recruiting.

For D1 I agreed that Thoth was scummy. I was the first (and only) person to really shove Alyssa. I also hammered Thoth while pushing them really hard for information. I tried to keep them engaged as I milked them for information. Everyone wagoned Alyssa post Thoth flip and in D2 I maintained in my guild chat that I felt they would flip scum but I had concerns. Lunatic even gave me shit about how much I was shoving them D1 in our chat to look at Alyssa and now that Alyssa was the elimination train I was pumping the breaks. I wanted real reasoning I could work with. That did not happen. I got a bunch of people regurgitating the same talking points and with a mafia flip we had a useless train and no counter train.

So yeah. I bitched at the town EOD2. Honestly towns macro game has been dogshit imo. Do what you want with my opinion there. Play some Bon Jovi living on a prayer as you lean on mech demanding claims and shit.

So D2 rolls around. Now I get Castin in our chat. They reported an inno check on Alyssa at some point. I missed it in the guild chat. Was not bothering to keep up with chat and am kinda low effort this game tbh. After the fact I did question that asking why they did not fight harder to defend Alyssa if they had a hard cop check on the player. This is where my distrust of them started. Somewhere in D2 Lunatic brought up that I was the only one in the chat not to claim and I again offered them to full claim or give a half claim preventing the harm of a full claim. They declined.

Really stupid lynch plays out. Hit a mafia- cool... We got nothing from it because towns macro was utter garbage. I wanted things I could work with later. Voiced multiple times that the game is chess not checkers and I wanted more. We got a good flip that set town up late game for failure imo. Yes it was the conclusion but we should have created so much more.

Now D3 kicks off. Castin has a red check on pie. Ok.. Their previous green check on Alyssa was obviously bad (and this was before they were in the guild and they handled it oddly imo) but sure. Our guild leader was killed and I pushed that we should angle the situation pushing a read based shove on Pie. I was building it but struggling a bit. Rex just went yolo Leroy Jinkens claiming the hard action before I was able to post and I pushed with pressure. Cool thing that it was hiding our alignment cop that was unknown to even be a part of our team which we did discuss but obviously landed on a confirmable town. This makes 2/2 of Wyrly's results being flatly wrong. Interesting bit there. We go down this entire train of stupid as Pie refuses to verify and I push in guild chat that they should get no info until they claim. (Still have zero understanding why that was even a subject of contention in the day chat. Wtf..)

That plays out and at some point Rex decides to blow up the team. I have said my piece in guild chat about that. Rex has been a ghost sense they outed me. I have pinged them and offered to interact- they have nothing to say so far. Wyrly has been pressuring me to get with the sites meta and that I should claim which is a good look. They seem genuinely upset that I am not willing to give you guys a claim.

Thats a decent overview of what I have done this game. You guys do not get access to the 1-2k posts I have made in guild chat as I sort and hunt but I did give my people a fucking ear full about how I understand the DP players suspecting me while I feel its absolute bullshit they could not sort me in guild chat. A whole truckload of stupid got dumped on a pretty simple situation. Shining has a claim that looks fake and Pie had a red check that got sorted.

Ehhh, But yeah. Ask me for whatever and I will give you my thoughts. But here is my role claim

"You are Helz

Passive-

You will tell everyone to go fuck themselves if they play in a stupid way and demand information thats not even AI

Active-

You have a tracking function. Its a thing.

You have another function. Wont ever be spoken of until my flip.

Do what you guys want with that. Feel free to milk me for information if your gona go down that road. I will respond as long as I am around the computer.

Uh hu. Thats what I said eyh? Just actually read my next post. We may disagree on strategy but I will unpack what I have done and why.

Caught up with the thread now. I have a decent bit to say but quite honestly, Im not getting with your sites bullshit meta. Will write a wall explain what I have done and why this game though.

Nah, going back to work. If I give a claim I will give one of two functions. I will never give a full claim. You can have it on my flip

Luna declined so I never claimed. And I have concerns about Wryly. They claimed an inno result on Alyssa and then a guilty on Pie. Their inno on Alyssa was before they were recruited. Something town should consider.

Haven’t read up but I openly offered to give Luna my claim multiple times while voicing concern about hiding such info given it was not just about trusting the people in the chat but also trusting anyone who came afterwards and it held very little benifit to be shared.

This exact situation is why I felt people should withhold information.

Miller^ not killer on Rex. Autocorrect on phone

Well I’m adulting. Probably never going to full claim. You guys can pretty much go fuck yourselves there.

Yes I lied about rejecting the guild invite. I worked to angle myself as a mid range town read for kill insulation and prior to game starting set myself the goals of open wolfing and trying to invert the game if I got to LYLO.

I have not trusted Rex from the start of my guild situation because they claimed a hard killer function.

I can simply say I will be around in a few hours if you guys want to sort me and I have been on the right side of flips so far. Your community uses nonsense mech as a crutch so feel free to kill me if you can’t deal with a full claim or if you want to speed hammer before I can respond.

Towns honestly going full retard today with an outed fake claim imo.

I don’t see the rush. But if we are going there then there is no reason to put the entire Hunters guild. Just have 1 person confirm (although it really would be better to wait until tomorrow and not out either of them)

If Rex wants to put their people that’s their call. I think it’s better to focus on Shining and revisit this issue tomorrow

I don’t see the rush. But if we are going there then there is no reason to put the entire Hunters guild. Just have 1 person confirm (although it really would be better to wait until tomorrow and not out either of them)

If Rex wants to put their people that’s their call. I think it’s better to focus on Shining and revisit this issue tomorrow

Before I handle a bit of adulting I will say the exact same dynamic exists in your claim. We 'could' demand you have a guild member out themselves to verify your claim today. But why should we? The flip will show if that player was the guild leader and that semi-confirms you. Yes outing one of your guild members could resolve that right the fuck now but we could also just wait for the flip and get reasonable enough confirmation without outing a player as having developed powers.

Sometimes its good to just wait a bit and revisit the issue later imo.

Your pretty clever. While I disagree with your direction I will acknowledge that. Take a moment and try to break down the odds of what you are voicing as a potential.

Sure, I get your fixation. You just got shoved hard as a confirmed town and such. You feel very justified and want closure. An easy question I can ask though is why does it need to be 'right the fuck now'?

You agree that Shining is probably scum. Whats the harm in keeping developed PR's hidden for another day and revisiting the subject tomorrow?

I do feel there is harm in guilds going at etch other demanding reveals. There is simply a difference between something being a valid issue and something being a valid issue that has to be addressed 'right the fuck now.' I am seeing more harm than good with the timing and its based off a pretty improbable situation.

Thats an interesting question. All forms of manipulation could exist. Pie hard claims not miller and there is no reason to doubt that.

Insane alignment cop I feel is a bit too bastard to exist. Gave too much thought to that.

This leaves all the tailors/lawyers etc or the manipulation roles like witch (forcing a player to target another player) or bus drivers swapping people around.

Small potential of Rex lying but I just do not see why they would at this stage of the game. Scum are seemingly down being between 2-3 mafia and we are nowhere close to a lylo so it would be a dumb play for them to highlight themselves hardcore right now as scum.

I am rather interested in these players today-

ILikePie5

Whiteflame

Awesome

Casey Risk

Shining

About where I am at for the day. I still think Shinings claim is total bullshit and I still do not have great feels on Awesome or Casey. Whiteflame I am simply paranoid about. They are a solid player by my read and their range is too high for me to trust them.

Yeah. Im all about getting as much information as possible. What you did was a giant waste of time and you even view the situation as being a TvT. Then you double down afterwards and want to kill the guild member you town read because he is not bending to your will or you circle back and push me as you think I may be in that guild. Seems like you are more focused on your little Tree larping win con than helping out the town right now as you admit Shining is probably scum.

My take is pretty simple- We can revisit this subject later in the game but for now it does not make sense to out all the guild members giving mafia a list of who has developed powers. I do not see any world where scum Rex faked this peek. It simply makes no sense. While I do acknowledge a potential exists for framing/redirection/lawyer/whatever else to be possible we are talking about a gamestate where only 2 scum exist at N2 requiring both one of the scum to have that function + one of exactly those two to be in the guild. I simply see low odds there.

Lets set the ego aside and really consider what I am saying. Is the cost of revealing every developed power role in the game worth the benefit of maybe catching a rat in a guild given the odds on what has to perfectly exist for that to be the case? And this is assuming Rex hardline flatly voiced a target in his guild chat to begin with which I have not herd them say.

Past that why the hell are you pushing for an elimination on a slot you think is town and agree has no scum motive for their push on you? Dude. You are on some bullshit right now. If you want me to sheep you get your head out of your ass.

Fucking just imagine if the day phase smited half the posts because Pie had just come out and said "Actually I am the confirmed guild leader" to start with.

For all the fancy bullshit in their head they accomplished less than nothing and wasted a ton of the towns time. Now they want people to sheep them as they push to eliminate a player they town read because they are on some power trip? No thank you.

Helz asked all of those questions to Pie trying to lock down an out for himself once Pie confirmed himself. Interesting turn of events.

Im not sure what you are on about here. I have not been even slightly defensive in my interactions with Pie. I just saw what they were doing as illogical and scummy. I still see it as illogical. They made a giant stupid stink over a simple issue because they could not see past their giant ego.

Wylted was right, you are a retard. Literally no one is talking about revealing power roles who are in the guilds. And it’s because of REF refusing to reveal who he told information to that we’re in this position. If he wants to play to his other wincon, I’m fine playing it too.

Im going to speak slowly and use small words breaking this down barney style for you-

Guild recruitment = having night actions

Revealing guild recruits = revealing what town can act

If you want to be paranoid that Rex was pushing their win con think this through- how would they even know your part of the Tree Hugger cult anyways? That info did not come out until after you claimed. You are acting like your little guild win con bullshit is some total war. I could give a shit less about it and you are jumping to an assumption of bad faith that I doubt is possible. Unless you want to tell me you have some guild member check we do not know about and was not mentioned on Lunatics flip.

Im against anyone needing to come forward to confirm Pie. The flip will clear it up enough as WF pointed out and there is no need to reveal developed PR

Also, I’m the sole remaining mod confirmed town. Listen to what I say

With what WhiteFlame pointed out your much more likely than not confirmed town. I do not see a world where as scum you would do something so insane unless you had totally compromised the hunters guild as scum + just wanted 1 more day. Thats self resolving and I am fine saying "I was wrong" and that your probably 95% confirmed town.

But the fact you are town in no way means I should follow your lead. You have done a series of things I disagree with and are pushing a line I think is hardline detrimental for town. While you and your Brokeback Mountain buddies are larping as trees smiting furries while you hide in a bush your guild can chew rocks.

Eliminating Rex is stupid. Its exponentially more stupid given you town read them. You wanting to reveal all town power roles is also stupid. Its exponentially more stupid given you agree we have a likely outed scum in front of us. The odds of it working out are also low. You have what 3 people? Rex probably has 2? So we out 5 power roles on the slight chance that in a 2p mafia team they not only got 1 of their 2 people recruited but also had the exact needed role? How does this make sense as a strategy?

You may be town. But it does not mean I will follow your lead when you push bad play like this after handling the red check in such a silly way. Honestly you coulda resolved that in like 1 post and instead we have ~300 posts on the stupid shit as you flailed around demanding silly nonsense so you could shade your opposing guild. Fuck your tree hugger guilds secondary win condition. Leave the rest of the town out of it.

Your theory is again leveraged on likely 2 living Mafia having some specific framing/redirect function + one of those mafia being in a guild that has maybe 1 other person. Thats pretty low odds imo and not a great reason to execute a player you think is more likely town than not for not following your plan.

Maybe lets jump on Shining instead and keep this in mind as the game pushes forward before we out all our PR and catabolize our guilds?

Could we maybe keep our town power roles a secret and not reveal them all to scum over some dick measuring contest?

So look, With what WF voiced you likely are simply just town.

You pushing Rex to reveal their guild mates- I do not see any real town benefit from that. It edges on the hypothetical that they both have a scum in their guild and some form of redirect/framer on their team. So what is the trade off there? On a potential hypothetical you out chunks of awakened town power roles. I figure their guild can make its own decisions on if it needs to sort its people.

That said you wanting to lynch Rex is just dumb. You openly do not scum read them but you are willing to lynch them out of what? Prideful spite because they disrespected your authority or some shit? Come on man. Chill out and lets get back to digging for scum. The "Lets wagon Rex to force them to be a town the way we want" is some silly shit.

I will acknowledge that I had tunnel vision on you but really you pulled some very awkward shifty nonsense digging in on points that totally did not matter. And even now you are still kinda doing that in a way thats at best very tangentially in line with supporting towns win con. If you squint your eyes and tilt your head at just the right angle you can see how its potentially possible that there could be a scum in Lunatics guild that somehow influenced a check on you with only 2 scum alive at the time of the action.

Im still interested in Shining. I do not believe their claim. 1 shot lighting rod that has to be recruited to be used just feels very under powered and I say that feeling that I have a very weak role.

Vote: Shining

Duno what happened to pushing the awful obvious fake claim but I feel its where I should be.

Vote Count:

Awesome5000 (1/7): Shining

Pie (1/7): Rex

Rex (4/7) Kohai, Mag1c, Pie, Bananna

Fair points.

While I do not even slightly understand why Pie would dig in and waste half a day for everyone harping on "Well did you tell your guild mates" or demand full role claims from a player they town read its possible it was not to the end of clearing themselves. While it looks like very poor play its not necessarily scummy.

Wylted flips tomorrow. So there is no reason to assume pie would lie there. Self resolving situation.

Vote: Unvote