Helz

Well TLDR as I see it

Did Pie lie about the information they needed to confirm themselves? Absolutely 100% yes. They locked up the day demanding info that had zero bearing on them clearing themselves. Their entire rambling about needing confirmation if Rex whatever was just an utter lie. Nobody can deny this.

Is Pie a guild leader? Maybe. If they are they are confirmed. Are they confirmed? No, not in the slightest. Town acting like they are confirmed is just stupid imo.

Pie pushing to lynch Rex? Thats scummy as fuck. They declared they believe Rex was not scum and now pressure them to reveal information or die because...? Sounds scummy as hell to me. You do not town read a slot then advocate to kill them when they do not do what you want.

Take that for what it is.

Well I would get a head ache too trying to justify the bullshit Pie pulled. Is what it is I guess. Take care.

I am very willing to hear out what you have to say and I am not sure why we are having so much trouble connecting right now. But regardless I am open to hearing your perspective on the situation.

Ok. You are totally avoiding my points and not acknowledging what I am saying.

Moving past that can I hear you out better and understand what you are saying? I am not getting your point other than you disagree and excuse their behavior.

I am very open to understanding your view. I just do not see how there could possibly be a conclusion other than "They lied"

Why they lied? Could be debated. 'if' they lied? Not so much imo.

Explain to me how what they were demanding had any meaning in any way as they killed half a day for the entire town refusing to just claim.

Ok. So you think I am not giving an answer in good faith.

Walk me through how you see Pie locking up the day phase demanding they need to get an answer out of Rex before revealing what confirms them.

Town literally lost the majority of a day over their bullshit there

Think about it, Why would Pie make things so stupid and dig in so hard demanding information and declaring it as necessary to prove their innocence if it had zero bearing on if they were or were not innocent?

Well what I do not do is lie to the community and make demands that have nothing to do with anything followed by voicing that the person with a check on me is probably not lying and then turn around and say they should be lynched. Thats for sure.

What would I do? Probably just explain myself and not hold the entire day chat hostage for 12 hours while making demands of information that do not relate to anything at all.

Just really think about this. If Rex told people in their guild what they were going to do was a HUGE issue Pie made a stupid level of issue. For fucking what? Why?

So to find common ground-

Do you not think he lied when he demanded that he needed Rex full role claim then demanded knowing if Rex had given information of who they would target as absolutely necessary for their defense? They took up half a day stalling the game and now revealed a guild owner claim.

How is this not just an absolute lie?

Look, shifting the burden from "I am undeniably conformed" to "is it possible" is the issue here. You have to recognize that right?

Feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

Erroneous.

But I do have reason to view Pies actions as anti-town motivated and seeing absolute deception nobody can deny.

You are missing a HUGE thing here. You are placing the burden on the counter claim being confirmation while Pie's entire thing was "I am 100% confirmed and if not I will even vote myself"

The burden is not on others to confirm that they are confirmed town. Its on them. Shifting this burden to say "Well its possible" is nonsense.

Ok, Well I do not understand what you are disagreeing with on my points. I feel I am making very clear points.

I am open to hearing what you see differently as well as understanding the points you are trying to make that I am missing.

Objectively, logically, mechanically- That is exactly what it is. A player making an unconfirmed claim while they made this huge stink arguing they needed info they did not need wasting a ton of time on info that had absolutely nothing to do with them confirming their alignment.

Its not a question of if they lied. They did. Its a question of why and if they can not be actually confirmed they look scummy as hell.

Until that happens them claiming something and not being counter claimed is not a confirmation. Its just them claiming some shit.

Lets unpack that again. Yes- two confirmed town exist. He claims one of them

But the counter claim is dead. They died in this day chat. The way they could be confirmed is if someone steps up and says they are actually that.

So here is a slightly less kind breakdown as I see it-

Rex claimed a red check as a cop on Pie. Pie declares they must have information from Rex thats critical to proving they are confirmable town. Pie wastes an entire 3/4 of a irl day hammering that Rex MUST give them information.

Pie then claims being a guild owner. In no way did the information they demanded or all the time they wasted have any impact in the slightest impact on if Pie was town. It was just pushing for info that had scum benefit.

Suddenly thats forgotten about? Why? Why are we pretending like them stalling and acting like they had to have this information that did not connect in any way with their claim was in any way reasonable? They straight up lied and wasted the time of the town.

Now they claim the OG guild leader. Ok.. Lets verify that. We can do so easily and move on. Its not verified and nothing they have done so far has shown they are confirmed town. They just made a vague claim as they push for more scum aligned info declaring they need more information and are willing to lynch a cop claim they flatly said they do not think is fake because they want more info.

Someone tell me what I am missing here. Because it looks like a flailing wolf that promised they could confirm themselves yet has not delivered.

Wait. Shining framed Pie? What did I miss there?

And why does that not make it more absurd that Pie is arguing to kill Rex?

You are totally messing with my town read on you right now. I am open to unpacking my thoughts and letting you understand where I am coming from.

So going back into what Pie did. Its not about "Pie wanted to know this." They flatly pushed they MUST have very specific information and were confirmable if that information was given. Started out with a full role claim and evolved into a demand of if Rex told anyone their target.

Does that hold scum hunting value? Sure. But Pie 100% lied and fucked off like half a day digging in over it and it turns out that 'holy shit;' the information they were demanding meant absolutely fucking nothing in any way to confirm their slot.

Then they claim confirmed. And they are not confirmed. They need someone to step up and say "Yeah, dude was the OG Guild owner" which has not happened. As of now they have done absolutely nothing confirmable. Thats logically true.

You feel that they can be counter claimed when we have a host confirmed smite on the claimed guild leader? You do know that happened. You did see a host day smite today. What are you even on about acting like the CC needs to happen when you saw this happen this very day?

And lets unpack Pies motives. Hard pushing for claims and revealing guild members and lying about it being necessary for their defense and following up with pushing to lynch a cop claim as they flatly voice they do not even think its coming from scum because... they want guild claims? Are you not seeing this nonsense?

Feel free to let me know what I am ignoring. While you are one of my town reads I am really struggling to push how reasonable what I am looking at is.

Also, why should Rex be killed over shining? Huge question mark there.

we just want him to tell us who his guild is so we cant find the other scum. they are only talking about a policy lynch if rex remains stubborn. also i will not policy lynch him, but i am helping with the pressure because we need to know the guild

So why should it be on the non-suspected individual to reveal their guild and not on the person claiming they can be confirmed (which would happen if just 1 person voiced "Yes, I was there and when dude was killed they were not the guild leader"

Goodnight

I could see an OMGUS counter push. But when you say "I think the dude is not lying" and position for a "Well I need to know who your guild members are to vet if there was bad faith actors" turning around and saying "Lets kill the guy" is just awful in every way. Just think about it.

TvT is totally possible. My issue here is looking at how and why Pie did what they did. They overtly lied demanding information declaring that it was critical to their confirmation and now it looks like it has nothing to do in any way to confirm their alignment.

They also declared that they are confirmed. Cool, Lets hear someone step up and say "Yeah, I am of whatever guild and the person killed was not the guild owner and instead Pie was the OG confirmed town player" That solves everything right there.

Then they want to lynch Rex? Wut? They must reveal their guild mates or be killed over the absolutely absurd role claim everyone thinks is scummy because... Uhhh... They think a peek is wrong on a player they already voiced they thought was not lying but they are willing to kill them?

Are you guys not seeing this nonsense? This narrative screams scummy imo.

Honestly this is straight up stupid. Im reframing from saying what I really think but fuck man, lets use our heads just a little bit here.

Really. I would like to understand any of a few points-

1- How is Pie confirmed town now. Nobody counter claimed and they said they have people? Greaat.

2- Why would Pie constantly lie and demand information that had absolutely nothing to do with them clearing themselves?

3- Why would a scum Rex fake a red check? It makes zero sense in any way

4- Why is it good for the town to reveal who is in guilds? Pie is pushing for this and if I was scum I would be as well. Then I could kill people able to take night actions

5- Is Pie the OG guild owner? If so why did the Mech function smite? How are they verified?

Im going to put it very lightly when I say that there is some thought processes I do not agree with going on. Also super interesting Pie is all about lynching Rex instead of Shining who looks to have totally slipped hardcore. Food for thought..