You cannot vote to end the day phase without killing a player, the day phase just continues until someone is lynched.
Yeah.. Well then.. We do have to eleminate
You cannot vote to end the day phase without killing a player, the day phase just continues until someone is lynched.
Yeah.. Well then.. We do have to eleminate
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/10/2026 at 11:33 PM (post #408)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/11/2026 at 12:32 AM (post #406)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/10/2026 at 11:29 PM (post #402)
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/11/2026 at 12:26 AM (post #398)
I think it has to be 1 scum in Mag1c and WF. If we miss with Mag1c, then we lynch WF and go to final three unless something ground-shattering happens before then
Probkem is if we lynch wrong tomorrow is likely LyLo
True. Let me look at this again but if we have the option to not lynch then we could use Mylo to force scum to limit the pool and allow Mag1c to speak before we decide.
Probkem is we explocitly cannot no lynch. We are forced to mandatory lynch each day
Fuck man. I will verify.
This game feels very scum sided to me now >.<
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/10/2026 at 11:32 PM (post #407)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/10/2026 at 11:29 PM (post #402)
Probkem is if we lynch wrong tomorrow is likely LyLo
7 today, 5 tomorrow, 3 on DP4. Tomorrow won't be LyLo unless there is an extra kill.
Well its Lylo if we Mag1c is town. Its Mylo if he is not. A no lynch would actually be better
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/10/2026 at 11:29 PM (post #402)
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/11/2026 at 12:26 AM (post #398)
I think it has to be 1 scum in Mag1c and WF. If we miss with Mag1c, then we lynch WF and go to final three unless something ground-shattering happens before then
Probkem is if we lynch wrong tomorrow is likely LyLo
True. Let me look at this again but if we have the option to not lynch then we could use Mylo to force scum to limit the pool and allow Mag1c to speak before we decide.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/10/2026 at 11:27 PM (post #399)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/10/2026 at 11:23 PM (post #395)
My paranoia about the lack of push back on a Mag1c train is bothering me. Kinda my main points for today.
I get your paranoia, but I think there's just not much evidence with which to push back
I agree. I wanted more out of the day so I pushed around. I might be a little crass for doing so but we got some interesting reactions as I pushed open a door to WF and we got some information out of it.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/10/2026 at 11:23 PM (post #396)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/11/2026 at 12:23 AM (post #395)
Occam's razor says that Mag1c is just scum. But I still have huge questions about WF's play given their claim. I duno.
My paranoia about the lack of push back on a Mag1c train is bothering me. Kinda my main points for today.
Same
But in a w!Mag1c world for him to claim and disappear means that he thinks his partner is in good shape.
Hmmm
I mean, something I thought about if I was him in his position as a wolf he has 2 options:
1- He just makes the claim and commits to it
2- He backs off and says "JK guys, It was just a gambit"
As town he also has a few options:
1- He does the blackmail and just logs out and does not try (makes no sense)
2- He does the blackmail and works around it using his votes to code messages and voice things letting people know he is watching and has thoughts voicing them in the limited capacity of using votes
3- He violates blackmail recognizing he is dead if he does or does not seeing how town is looking at the situation and just lets it happen while giving voice to his oppinion.
Imo he is simply scum caught doing something stupid and chose not to backtrack. As town if I was gona die if I did speak or not I would simply voice my thoughts and accept death.
Occam's razor says that Mag1c is just scum. But I still have huge questions about WF's play given their claim. I duno.
My paranoia about the lack of push back on a Mag1c train is bothering me. Kinda my main points for today.
If I was blackmailed and told all I could do was vote I would probably go as far as to try to make morse code with votes or some crazy shit if not in the very least shift votes around to use it as a way to communicate as I would hope someone would work with me and create a path for me to communicate through my votes.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/10/2026 at 11:11 PM (post #378)
Caught up. Magic never answered when I asked about the Helz vote, and I’ve been waiting a while. I get that he’s blackmailed or silenced or whatever it is, but he was still able to post a vote, so I’d expect him to manage a yes or no on why. He is either unable to from the blackmail or he is lying about the blackmail.
Kohai’s point about blackmailed players normally not being allowed to claim is one to take into consideration, however that still very much points to one of magic and whiteflame lilely lying. And WF’s BP claim makes sense with the flavor, so I’m sticking with my WF town read. That leaves magic as the one that doesn’t add up between them.
WF, fair enough on being wary of me for not claiming. I’m happy to claim if people want it, but I’d rather not hand scum more info if we don’t need it right now.
Noah, still waiting on an actual reason for the sus beyond me “explaining too fast.”
Ready to vote magic and move on when we feel we've gotten sufficient nutrients from this phase.
So blackmailer is something I am very familiar with. Something on my mind is very exactly the conditions.
Lets say hypothetically they were allowed to say they were blackmailed. And then on top of that they still have freedom to vote. Note they voted twice so they do certainly have that freedom. Why would they not unvote and revote and vote other people as a form of communication if thats all thats allowed to them?
Thoth, Sense you are here if you are not willing to claim flavor do you see balance or imbalance knowing what you know?
At this point I would prefer a full flavor claim from everyone but I do not want to force it.
The flavor lines up for sure
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/10/2026 at 10:44 PM (post #357)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/10/2026 at 11:38 PM (post #351)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/10/2026 at 11:33 PM (post #350)
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/10/2026 at 11:31 PM (post #349)
Oh ok, so Martyr
Thank you Pie
Not far off, but that would be on brand in its own way.
Ugh I think we do need a claim at very least so we can have better balance view
Already mentioned it won't help much on that front, but I'd be surprised if scum haven't figured it out at this point. I'm 1X BP. Justification is that I survived assassination attempts, and yes, the PM draws specific attention to the one where I was shot in the ear and the subsequent photo is the one I was referring to.
I still have the question though, Why did you feel that was so obvious to the point that you felt flavor claiming was out of the question?
Oh, From memory odd day 2 shot redirect makes some kinda sense.
Shooting D1 and D3 fits with the option of instead holding out for a D5. D5 kinda feels like the expected limit of the game without crazy exceptions. Someone said otherwise and I figured I should voice that the odd modifier fits for that respect even if the role makes a lot of sense for either alignment to me.
I do still believe that Mag1c and WF are in a 1v1. Granted I have stronger feelings that WF is town but I am kinda paranoid and want to call out what I am looking at.
I am much less interested in WF's claim and much more interested in the fact they refused to flavor claim voicing it would reveal their specific role.
Of every flavor so far they have claimed the one I feel is like.. A total wild card.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/10/2026 at 10:18 PM (post #339)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/10/2026 at 11:12 PM (post #335)
Home now.
Imo there is lies that have to be called out and we have a situation where everyone aknoledges that. Towns most critical PR is dead. I am not asking for a full PR reveal but the game balance does not match up with what we know to exist.
Im still where I was yesterday feeling there is a big gap in balance that does not add up. I would not mind pushing for a full flavor claim. WF's refusal to claim because it points to their action is a giant question mark for me. Like... What would that claim even narrow down? Not saying that to ask WF for a claim but I am questioning how a claim of being Trump would point to any specific role and how that matches up with them refusing to give a flavor D1. Trump is like... All over the place. I could see justification of being any role on the planet with that flavor.
I have the paranoia of how easily everyone is accepting of a Mag1c lynch and I recognize that it is paranoia. Figure we need to move soon regardless. Duno who is around at this hour.
I don't think my role claim would help dramatically at this point, honestly. I do think there's value in keeping it hidden even now, but I'll admit that's become a whole lot less so since I was Vanillaized. As for what it is being obvious, while I agree that there are probably numerous roles that could have been justifiable for Trump, I do think there are a few more obvious picks, one of which (the one I got) was exactly where my mind went when I saw the character.
Your call there. I am not asking for a role claim but I am calling out that I question thinking its obvious.
Maybe everyone else will see some obvious role there. I do not have one that comes to mind other than like mayor? "You are the asshole of the world and make shit happen" kinda deal? But then why hide that?
I just feel weird looking at your claim and feeling it both totally gave away your role as well as its somehow something to protect now. Trump is probably the most all over the place flavor claim I can think of and you refused to flavor claim saying that it would make your role obvious. I just question that.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/10/2026 at 10:17 PM (post #338)
I'm about 50% confident that I know what role whiteflame is, but if he's lying then it's useless information, and if he's telling the truth there's no reason to out it.
I could claim my character since I don't think it would give away my role.
I consider investigatives to be more critical than Doctor, and I'm curious for your take on that.
I want to examine the possible scum teams assuming Mag1c is scum.
Difference in my head is that with a doc existing we can stop a kill. Whatever invest may exist is subject to all sorts of WIFOM. Especially with claimed redirection in play.
And that is why again I feel the two claims can not be true. Town looks weak to me with a super crazy scum power if they both blackmail + remove a role + a dead town has a negative function + they just auto win at a certain time.
I think Savant and Pie would not allow such an imbalance.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/10/2026 at 10:11 PM (post #334)
#136: I get the logic of claiming to be 1 of 2 things, but effectively vanilla or PGO strike me as a weird pair. Dunno why vanilla would go on that list except to claim something that won't be counter-claimed.
Fits what I am doing. I won't explain now but my play represents one of those two roles and one of the two is true.
Home now.
Imo there is lies that have to be called out and we have a situation where everyone aknoledges that. Towns most critical PR is dead. I am not asking for a full PR reveal but the game balance does not match up with what we know to exist.
Im still where I was yesterday feeling there is a big gap in balance that does not add up. I would not mind pushing for a full flavor claim. WF's refusal to claim because it points to their action is a giant question mark for me. Like... What would that claim even narrow down? Not saying that to ask WF for a claim but I am questioning how a claim of being Trump would point to any specific role and how that matches up with them refusing to give a flavor D1. Trump is like... All over the place. I could see justification of being any role on the planet with that flavor.
I have the paranoia of how easily everyone is accepting of a Mag1c lynch and I recognize that it is paranoia. Figure we need to move soon regardless. Duno who is around at this hour.
Why Luna?
My point would be that you need to make your own opinions. This is a game of lies and deception.
never go with the popular position just because. It makes you look like scum who is more interested in blending in than town trying to solve
I will be home in an hour or so. Skimming the thread
Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/10/2026 at 5:38 PM (post #300)
So do we believe that Mag1cman is scum?
what do you believe? Duno why it matters what the rest of us believe.
you have to make your own opinions
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/9/2026 at 11:35 PM (post #278)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 11:09 PM (post #267)
That is imo an objectively scum sided mechanic. Which is not a bad thing. Just one I question with the claims given.
Normally, the punishment is that the day ends without a lynch, which obviously defaults to a scum victory if town keeps failing to pick someone before the deadline.
Sooo. I really do not want to go down this entire conversation about game balance. Its about as productive as the shit we got into about Artificial Intelligence yesterday.
You can control that. You can say someone will die at the end of X time who has the most votes. You can say that after so many votes someone dies. You can say no kill will happen unless a certain amount happens.
Saying that votes and days will happen and by default X team wins on X day? Thats a slant. In this game its a major benefit to Mafia but with the slight advantage that it can generate intention tells for the town as we consider who is dragging their feet.
Tiny tell given for an auto win timeline? Let me pick my own adventure and I will choose the auto win timeline every time.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/9/2026 at 10:59 PM (post #256)
I strongly disagree with Helz in #77 that the 7-day timeline is scum-sided. All games on here have a timeline. This one is just set up in a way that requires us to figure out how to budget our time.
I feel its a very scum sided mechanic given it puts on players to budget or else mafia has an insta-win at some point. Controlled voting cycles is fair. It would be equally biased to give town an insta-win if mafia did not eliminate X amount within X time.
That is imo an objectively scum sided mechanic. Which is not a bad thing. Just one I question with the claims given.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/9/2026 at 10:58 PM (post #255)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 9:51 PM (post #253)
Btw. My challenge this game was to use all the things I never use and force myself to play. Hence me pushing Flavor and Meta and other shit I never touch.
I did raise my eye brows a bit when you demanded a claim from
Whiteflame earlier lol
Lol. Yeah. Its very very outside of my norm. Kinda surprised nobody ever called me on it.
But at this point I do think we should just full flavor claim. Doc is dead. We also have an overcrowded PR situation and at least hammering out the potential split makes sense.
Roles should not be revealed but people should look at whats claimed and question what they could believe to exist.
Btw. My challenge this game was to use all the things I never use and force myself to play. Hence me pushing Flavor and Meta and other shit I never touch.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/9/2026 at 10:44 PM (post #245)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 6:45 PM (post #57)
Oh shit. Check this out-
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/3p/solo-leveling---day-phase-3?commentId=69dc0abcf1ca45e4130c77c3
Here is the end game
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/endgames/posts/4a/solo-leveling-endgame
So this is what I was talking about. And it was Mag1c that did it. Said over and over and over to town pushing that I was scum and people just followed the rhetoric and nobody cared to verify even as I called out again and again that they have never even made any points as to why I was scum. They (as scum) shoved through my misslynch.
I am not sure exactly what you are getting at by linking to this?
I was pointing to my first game where it was the only time I was misslynched in this community and how it happened. Initially I was just talking about the thing that happened and just asking that people actually give reasoning and interact as I walked into the thread seeing I was voted.
After that I looked it up and found it was actually Mag1c who was the one as scum who shoved me while avoiding reasoning. I felt there was some parallel to that and this and by giving exact links people could referance the meta I am talking about (Which is also why I fucking hate meta.. Its such a pain in the ass to even understand or speak about)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 10:29 PM (post #230)
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/9/2026 at 11:28 PM (post #228)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 10:25 PM (post #225)
Blackmailing =/= Silencing. It wasn’t announced so they could just fake it if that was the aim and get exactly the same result.
Que es la diferencia?
Again, lack of announcement. Silencing comes with mod confirmation in the OP. Blackmailing comes with nothing. Faking it yields the same result as actually doing it, assuming the mod even allows a scum player to Blackmail another scum player.
I do not think anyone thinks a blackmailer did that to their own team. More of a question of if its just faked.
I can not imagine any advantage to actually doing a blackmail on a team mate N1. If anything the team mate would fake it and then try to confirm themselves as town with a second blackmail N2.