Oh. I am stupid and my computer did dumb things. Im sorry. Did not see replys.
Oh. I am stupid and my computer did dumb things. Im sorry. Did not see replys.
Not trying to be a bitch about it but we really need to move on this.
Man.. Can we please get engagement here? Its Lylo under a timer...
This is where my FPS bullshit hits. I literally think Thoth is very likely scum and I still think towns best play is shooting into Helz/Kohai/WF.
I am arguing that while putting myself into a lynch pool and arguing something that could be pointed at as scummy for people that do not follow my reasoning.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/11/2026 at 8:43 PM (post #83)
i do feel paranoia about Luna. Mainly because
1) Noah died sussing him
2) Luna won multiple scum games in a row and last game fake claimed cop to get a win.
Yeah. My thoughts boil down to if Luna is making a scum play it falls flat on its face if we focus on the other situation first. Its an absolute disaster for them as a team if town does not shoot between the two which is what they expect.
I also simply think like, Say we decide Thoth is scum. We kill him they kill Luna. We then tomorrow have the exact same situation as today and still have to be right a second time. I do not see the situation of Helz/Kohai/WF getting easier tommorow. I do see the Luna/Thoth being very much easier given Thoth will be allowed to speak. And it really puts scum in a fucked up place forcing that as the ending 2v1 situation.
Like, If we kill a wolf between us 3 they either kill a claimed alignment cop destroying any chance of winning or they leave him alive knowing (potentially) a townie will vote them to the death and their chances do not exist. Its a loose loose end game there so we should shoot between us.
Mafia did not think this through if Luna is scum or Luna just got a hero action off and I feel its optimal to resolve tomorrow.
Voice if you atleast agree to focus on that group and please sort between me and WF. I will answer any questions asked and focus on this game when I have the other obligation handled.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/11/2026 at 8:30 PM (post #78)
less than a day and half remain
Yeah. Im crawling through a contract right now drafting an email for that commercial rental thing I mentioned the other day. I am popping back into this thread to talk but I really do feel that we should eliminate between You, Me and WF today.
Sadly we have to get exactly every single town member on a scum to have a chance and time is limited. Engagement is not what it should be right now in this situation.
To consolidate my thoughts more clearly-
For Luna to be scum- BM must have 2 shots + exactly the scum getting Thoths role and Thoth is the actual invest. I feel this is unlikely.
or
Luna and Thoth are making a batshit crazy play that makes no sense forcing a WvW instead of betting on a single town voting poorly today in a 3v2. I feel this is super unlikely.
That said I strongly suspect Thoth is simply a wolf. Giving them a voice tomorrow puts them in an awful position.
For WF to be scum the Vanalizer claim was faked. (God do I hate that fucking word, My community called them an Auditor.)
For Kohai to be scum they are confirmed popular and would have to be popular + Vanalizer or Blackmailer given we know from yesterdays flip the BM claim on Mag1c was real.
This opens a question though, In a S! WF world what would their action be? Nobody has claimed role blocked or anything and we have not seen a second action impacting the game that looks like it came from scum.
I gotta wrap up an email for a buisness issue but after I can at least dig through Luna's D2 to look for consistency in their claim to checking me followed by digging into WF/Kohai.
Those are fair points. Luna having recently fake claimed Cop with the explicit aim (he told me later) of bussing his scum partner (Pie last game) has me on edge a bit. As scum, I know he’s more than willing to bid for towncred, just a matter of whether there’s any meaningful benefit to doing so in this game. I don’t see it clearly here, though he didn’t have a whole lot of unknowns when it came time to claim and he tends to be a high risk-high reward player. Balance-wise, I think a Cop makes sense for this game, and it would be kind of crazy if there wasn’t one given what we know scum has.
Yeah. Its also why largely I am in favor of not solving between Luna/Thoth today. The play as a scum only works if we react to it immediately. It totally fucks them in an epic way if we instead look at the other 50/50 you, me and Kohai have. For each of us thats town we have the exact same dynamic of knowing one of the two have to be scum "unless" we consider Thoth/Luna WvW and I really do not feel thats reasonable. I have to even put on a tin foil hat and consider that its exactly Thoth being the invest that wolves were told the role of + Blackmailer having 2 charges + Luna trying to go for the win right now to solve.
Avoiding touching the situation leaves the scum with 2 shitty options:
1- They Kill Luna tommorow and just loose
2- They let Luna live knowing that they have a 2v1 with 1 vote being hardline on them and making the surviving town a kingmaker.
The additional benefit I see is that I see is having Luna in play as we sort a 3p 50/50 he could be kingmaker as I do feel he is town. I just feel its the best chance of winning if town shoots between Kohai/WF/Helz today. And each of us has strong positioning to solve.
I am essentially looking at Luna/Thoth as WvT and WF/Kohai as WvT. With the first being easily solved tomorrow and the second a substantial issue we can unpack. WF and Kohai will each have the same 50/50 between me and the other person but I feel I am pretty transparent this game and there is a lot of mech to work with.
For my personal defense would I lie about my claim about being a limited shot PGO, citizen, or BP in this situation? Fuck yes I would. And my play this game perfectly spells that out. Scum can WIFOM what I am but my claim is simply that I am a citizen.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/11/2026 at 5:01 PM (post #71)
All I can say is that I’m amazed anyone thinks I would either blindly fake claim Trump here or ask about him as one of the two characters I could ask were in the game and actually receive a “no” for his presence in a game about Epstein Island.
Also, feeling that tinfoil hat again: why are we writing off a Thoth/Luna pairing again? Because of bussing?
Good points. I do not see a world where Trump is not a very obvious flavor to be in the game. So yeah, I think its much less likely to be a false flavor.
I feel Thoth/Luna pairing would be wild. It would have to be a really deep wolf play faking a blackmail, Luna claiming a really risky invest role, and deciding to kill one of their own for town cred when in Lylo they could just do nothing and likely win. I really do not see it as being a realistic potential.
If Luna lied he could get a hard CC and it would be taking wolves from a winning position into a 1v1 expecting town to kill between them and betting on winning the following day. I just really do not see any logic to such a play. It also takes a massive amount of balls to even try before considering how poor of a play that would be.
I think its objectively the superior play although I do not want to snap vote WF. I want to dig between the two.
An added advantage of this situation is that killing between Me/Kohai/WF forces mafia to kill Luna giving the flip that confirms Thoth as scum -or- enter a 3p Lylo with 1 vote that will hardline be against them.
Thats a huge advantage for a 3P Lylo. I really think we should make the lynch exactly one of us three and leave Luna/Thoth for tommorow given we put the wolves in a loose loose situation if we play it out this way.
Imo for Kohai WF should be virtually confirmed scum in this situation mechanically 'if' they believe Luna instead of the tin foil. The probability of me being one of those roles + having that modifier is quite extra.
WF should sort between myself and Kohai but also have mech knowledge (if town) that the vanalizer is real.
Imo though, in either situation whichever the town player is between Kohai and WF has the game solve. I would like to talk about that.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/11/2026 at 3:55 PM (post #64)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/11/2026 at 4:50 PM (post #60)
There is also a question. We all recognize there is 100% a 1v1 between Luna/Thoth with Thoth claiming blackmailed.
For today do we resolve within that 1v1 or hunt outside of it? We 100% need 2 good lynches back to back. Assuming Luna is town they will certainly be killed tonight.
This would leave the D4 of Kohai, WF, Helz. I feel its a decent idea for us to solve there if we draw the conclusion that Thoth is absolutely the second scum. Although I do have the bias that this also gives me a 50/50
I feel like that is the 1v1 here, so I agree. We can try hunting outside of that 1v1, but either the game ends with the wrong lynch, or we get information from the flip that can help inform the scumhunt in the final 3.
I am leaning twords just wanting Luna around to help resolve Me/WF/Kohai. If we are willing to bet on Thoth being scum we are betting the entire game on Luna. And if we are gona do that having them around is a positive.
I will also say mechanically 'if' you guys decide that its as simple as Thoth then you have to either believe I am a Godfather or I am semi confirmed town.
This is an even larger stretch for WF having to also require me to be a Godfather + Vanalizer or Godfather + Blackmailer.
But solving within the 3p of Helz/Wf/Kohai is probably the play here as opposed to flipping a coin with a slot that will not speak or interact with us.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/11/2026 at 3:54 PM (post #63)
If thoth is scum the possible pairings
Thoth / Helz
Thoth / Luna
Thoth / wf
If you replace Luna with Kohai then yes. Although I get it from your perspective.
Also you would have to think a S! Luna would hard buss a S! Thoth while also Thoth fakes blackmailed in Lylo. Thats just not something I see having happened so gotta remove that Luna/Thoth pairing potential.
I will also say Kohai and WF should also consider this. You are both in a 50/50 looking at me and the other person.
A lot of me is simply leaning twords a world of exactly Thoth/WF but I do not want to rush that given Lylo.
There is also a question. We all recognize there is 100% a 1v1 between Luna/Thoth with Thoth claiming blackmailed.
For today do we resolve within that 1v1 or hunt outside of it? We 100% need 2 good lynches back to back. Assuming Luna is town they will certainly be killed tonight.
This would leave the D4 of Kohai, WF, Helz. I feel its a decent idea for us to solve there if we draw the conclusion that Thoth is absolutely the second scum. Although I do have the bias that this also gives me a 50/50
Im still surprised Blackmailer is in the game to begin with. It really is a pretty bastard mechanic requiring people to not work twords their win condition.
Would a 2x Blackmailer even be possible?
I will say that if I was faking a claim right now I would 100% claim a BP function. Would very easily fit my flavor and be a very safe claim. Its very odd that I seem to be the only actual vanilla in the entire game and I do recognize that. But its why I was so deadset yesterday that Blackmailer + Vannalizer + Auto win timer = imbalance.
Im leaning twords just Trusting Luna's claim. Them checking me N1 makes sense. I expect they would want me out of the way. Im skimming DP2 to double check their interactions concerning me. Then there is the consideration of 2 charges of Blackmailer in a game that may only be 3 days long? That sounds kinda fucked even if we had a redirect able to shift that around. (Assuming redirect even could, Blackmailer typically is not even a visiting role to begin with)
I am also paranoid that its Lylo. Luna could simply have gotten Thoth's role, recognized they are invest, then claimed their role and blackmailed them.
I did 36 years in the IDF so I am a soldier. I duno. Its flavor.
My role has nothing and does nothing. I guess its an improvement over some town that had a straight up negative utility but I am kinda surprised to see everyone in this game claim abilities and such.
So for Thoth to not be flatly scum both Luna would have to lie about being an investigator + the Mafia team would have to have a 2nd Blackmailing charge. The only real way I see a S! Luna making this play is if Thoth had their role revealed to the mafia start of DP1 and Thoth is the real invest with Luna fake claiming after having his team silence them.
Well then..
So I am the 'soldier' and I have no day or night action. This is part of why I was so convinced that there was an imbalance.
I figured baiting scum to push or target me was an ok D1 play even if I did it rather poorly imo and when I claimed D2 I figured that exact same play would fit what I might do as a limited shot PGO.
Yeah. But if I do not live I would say get 100% flavor claims tomorrow even if the lynch was good. Hunt the split and be critical of the slow claims. Not at all playing WIFOM saying this : )
I will announce when MYLO/LYLO has arrived, and votes will be permanent on MYLO/LYLO days.
So if I am wrong. Everyone keep in mind 1 vote is permanent. Absolutely everyone full claims and nobody votes until they are certain of their choice. 1 wrong town vote = a town loss
Scum will want to vote last. They will want to see 1 bad town vote and jump on it. Keep this in mind if we are in Lylo
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/10/2026 at 11:42 PM (post #421)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/10/2026 at 10:42 PM (post #419)
Orrr. I just hammered. Lol
Eh I was gonna if you didn't lol
Ya know.. I have never hammered every day phase in a game before.
If Mafia had achievements that might be one I want to have. If I am right on Magic and you guys trust me I would not mind giving the hammer tomorrow : P
So ehh. small bit of feedback- If you ever run a nonstop game clock please voice when day will open in advance to allow town to use the limited time they are given before mafia auto-wins.
Orrr. I just hammered. Lol
VTL: Mag1cman
Whoever can pull the trigger when they are comfortable doing so. I am not sure if anything else productive can happen past flavor claims and things will be more simple tomorrow.
Well whatever. I am confident enough in Mag1c.
Bastard mechanics were expressly voiced to me not to be in the game.
If they were blackmailed I would have expected them to use their votes to communicate given they can vote multiple times
I do not see game balance with a role that vanalizes + a blackmailer from what we know
I did not see Mag1c as town D1
Pretty much my view.