Helz

Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/9/2026 at 10:24 PM (post #223)

I'm gonna head to bed, if anyone has questions, I'll keep my laptop open to see the messages, but i'm really tired

Take care. I hope whatever issue you have gets solved.

Mmm. Interesting catch.

"+ a minute chance of being hit with vanillaizer" <Post he is referencing so others don't gotta look it up

I would like people to consider my post #57

Just look at the links. The gamestate. What was going on there. I get that referencing previous games is rough given it kinda takes reading a bunch of crap and understanding what happened there but it is a parallel I am drawing to Mag1c here. The whole bit of pushing someone without reason combined with my egocentric view of the kill and actions.

Im recognizing my bias there. But its jumping out at me.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 10:05 PM (post #204)

so either

1. Wf is scum lying about being vanillaized and scum does not have a vanillaizer

2. Mag1c is lying about being blackmailed and scum does not have a blackmailer

3. The vanillaizer came from town

Yeah. Pretty much the long and short of it. I do not see any world where its possible for game balance that scum has both unless some townie has some crazy God level powers.

If I had a nuke right now I would go Mag1c then WF then Noah and I would bet money its a win.

If Thoth/Luna/Kohai got me fooled at this moment good on them.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/9/2026 at 10:01 PM (post #192)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:57 PM (post #189)

vacillated

Wut

So we are looking at if balance could exist with Mag1c blackmailed by scum + WF being vanalized / audited / turned into a citizen. It looks like there has to be a scum between those two

Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/9/2026 at 9:58 PM (post #191)

what do you mean "slipped"?

It would take me some time to explain how slips really work but the short of it is simply that someone says something that directly contradicts themselves or reveals knowledge they could not have without a wolf chat and such.

I am not seeing what they are in this interaction but thats what they are referencing.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:50 PM (post #176)

I’m gonna get some dinner and sign off. I’m animal sitting this weekend and have a bar mitzvah to attend tomorrow. It’s gonna be a brutal weekend

No worries. I have substantial obligations tomorrow as well. Gotta be the adult for an event at my American Legion as well as having to meet with a business partner on a situation thats going sideways which will eat a chunk of the day. I will drop in as I can regardless but I feel like we have a decent 50/50 in front of us. Mag1c is who I am leaning twords right now though. I do not see WF and Mag1c being possible given their claims unless Thoth/Luna say otherwise and Luna has a decent town feel for me even if they are a sneaky sneak who does have the skill to get one past me.

The thought that popped in my head was the potential of a T! Mag1c having some lookout/detective/whatever role but me being swapped around justifying their hard double vote on me flagging as an invest. Wanted to sort that

Ah, Sorry. Im dumb.

I hope everything in your real life is ok. Thanks for the answer.

Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/9/2026 at 9:45 PM (post #170)

I have my laptop open, I'm still getting the notifications, yeah you can ask it.

Can you confirm who you targeted last night if you acted? Super important to sort mechanical stuff. I can explain later.

Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/9/2026 at 9:35 PM (post #164)

I'm gonna get off for the night and probably tomorrow, something bad just happens, I might need some space. If that's OK?

I thought about it a second too late but if you are still here I would like you to answer 1 question quickly

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:32 PM (post #160)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 10:31 PM (post #158)

Kohai^

...Why do I weirdly conflate Mikal with Kohai...

IDK. We two couldn’t be more different if we tried

Lol. Yeah. And I am sorry. You both have unusual names. Thats my excuse. >.<

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:30 PM (post #154)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 10:28 PM (post #152)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:24 PM (post #150)

I think there’s scum between wf / Mag1c. I doubt scum have both vanillaizer and a blackmailer

The more I think about it the more I do not think its even possible. There is way too much soft to negative power on the towns side and having both those roles is just huge before considering the mafia insta-win bit.

Yeah. Plus blackmailer usually means a death if they fail. So that means scum could possibly get essentially a second kill?

That is a question. Could the game even be balanced at all with a +1 kill for mafia?

Like. Is it even possible?

Kohai^

...Why do I weirdly conflate Mikal with Kohai...

Noah could be town or not. But in either situation one of those two does not add up.

I feel a redirector, blackmailer, and vanallizer creates a situation we should look very critically at.

WF/Mag1c is lying in every situation I consider. Thats without knowing Luna/Thoth/Mikal info.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:24 PM (post #150)

I think there’s scum between wf / Mag1c. I doubt scum have both vanillaizer and a blackmailer

The more I think about it the more I do not think its even possible. There is way too much soft to negative power on the towns side and having both those roles is just huge before considering the mafia insta-win bit.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #147)

lookkng back Noah and Helz both claimed character super early which would be risky if either are scum

Part of my mind with Noah-

They played Werewolf before. Cool. They did claim a flavor super fast. Also I was the first to call out good vibes from that. But it is based upon the assumption they did not know what they are doing.

I am more confidant than not that Noah is town from that bit. I also stay paranoid and recognize its an assumption and this is a game of lies. Could also be a W! Noah doing it off the bat not knowing better and it just working out for them. Their flavor did not give us much and we have not figured out the split.

I wish Luna and Thoth were here. We could probably crunch this. Or at least get all the flavor out of the way and sort that piece.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:17 PM (post #139)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 10:15 PM (post #136)

Given the gamestate I will go ahead and make a split claim.

I am either effectively a citizen with no action or a paranoid gun owner with limited shots.

Either way I will point to how I was baiting as a PR D1. I even called myself out on it D1. But was I doing it to bait to kill a mafia or to bait the kill to keep other TPR alive? That is a question I would rather leave open.

I will again confirm that I do not visit and had no action that would have been seen by anyone last night. Its also why I am so critical of the Blackmailer + Vanalizer thing + the negative town modifier + the insta mafia win mechanic. Im kinda stuck on how imbalanced that feels and 'if' Noah is town it doubles down on that being another town role that can screw town royally. If they are scum you still have the question of which of WF and Mag1c is lying.

So if PGO that’s the THIRD negative role. Hmmm. Something feels so screwed up

Yeah. I am either a coin flip of use or just totally useless.

My justification is whatever my flavor is was the general of Israel or whatever.

Orrr. there is somehow a town role which removed WF's role which in that case LOL FUCKING HELL. Mag1c or Kohai better have God level powers as town to balance that bullshit.

Given the gamestate I will go ahead and make a split claim.

I am either effectively a citizen with no action or a paranoid gun owner with limited shots.

Either way I will point to how I was baiting as a PR D1. I even called myself out on it D1. But was I doing it to bait to kill a mafia or to bait the kill to keep other TPR alive? That is a question I would rather leave open.

I will again confirm that I do not visit and had no action that would have been seen by anyone last night. Its also why I am so critical of the Blackmailer + Vanalizer thing + the negative town modifier + the insta mafia win mechanic. Im kinda stuck on how imbalanced that feels and 'if' Noah is town it doubles down on that being another town role that can screw town royally. If they are scum you still have the question of which of WF and Mag1c is lying.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 9:01 PM (post #127)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 9:59 PM (post #123)

A redirector.. Makes me even more confident that there can not be a Blackmailer and a Vanalizer.

The question is if this is a town or scum redirector? I have seen town redirectors before but in town hands it’s usually negative utility. That would make two negative utility roles

Fair. That would be an excellent scum role. I jumped to the thought that we had a town redirector

WF or Mag1c gotta be scum here

A redirector.. Makes me even more confident that there can not be a Blackmailer and a Vanalizer.

So pretty much we either have an outed scum host confirmed imo or we just have a weird situation where we can debate if a blackmailer is bastard or not and it wont matter because the people that created the setup will not participate.

I think most people view it as such. Which is a substantial part of my view. I was flatly told there are no bastard mechanics. So blackmailer should not exist making Mag1c simply scum.

But then there is that wiggle room of other people thinking otherwise. And I do not know what this site has set as a standard there or if anything was set at all.

Imo if it was declared bastard then Mag1c is just 1000% scum who slipped not thinking to ask the right questions. Orrr we go into the really uncomfortable territory I do not want to speak about while the game is active.

So ehh.. Is it crossing a line to ask you @Kohai if something was put in place to declare a blackmailer bastard or not? I do dislike messing with setup meta for analysis but its happening..

A blackmailer does make sense for flavor. That is a solid point.