ILikePie5

No u didn’t, Kohai is just retarded

I fucking told you you moron

Bro are you serious?

Mikal and Whiteflame are calling EXACTLY a Pie/Kohai scum team.

You know you’re town, so Pie/Kohai can’t be a team. But that’s literally what they’re saying the team is, so they can lynch me and win the goddamn game. That’s why Mikal cares so much about the order of Pie vs WF.

As predicted

When you come back, I’m interested to hear your scum pairings and reasons for why.

We'd have to believe that wf/mikal chose to kill vader (who was also an easy mislynch target) over castin, a tracker that could potentially implicate whoever was performing the nk.

Whats riskier? Confirmed information going out about the setup? Or an implication at LYLO between WF and a potential Tracker? The first you can’t WIFOM out, the second you can. Also, it’s not true that everyone townread Castin. Everyone just assumed she would have to be a converted scum, which she still can be but is unlikely. Also, WF may have an ability like a Deflector to deflect the Tracking. Or even Redirecting.

Cause Vader could only be a converted scum with his role, not original. The entire goal was to hunt the original scum. And he would have to give that information to someone else.

We'd also have to believe that mikal performed an action other than a nk or roleblock, which also doesn't make sense. That's why I'm confident the team is either castin / mikal or wf / pie. 

Why couldn’t he have just performed the Follower. Also if Mikal is scum and Wryly is town, he knows Wryly isn’t lying. He could’ve used any manipulative action on Wryly or because he’s likely the converted scum, gotten the follower and used it on Wryly for town cred.

The NKA makes sense: Wf wants to use the doctor role to claim town cred. They killed vader over castin because if they killed castin it would implicate wf if he tried to claim he used a doctor role. In addition, castin was the most obv town player last day phase and is a very strong town PR. This is why I'm so confident in wf being scum or Mikal and Castin being the scum team

Mikal/Castin isn’t a team because they would be indifferent to killing me or WF. That’s a team you can just rule out.

Again, it boils down to the fact that you 100% know WF is scum via POE. There’s a world that exists where I’m Town. You don’t have the surety. That’s just cold hard facts.

We can debate balance all we want. We can debate night actions all we want. We can debate who scum would’ve recruited all we want. But POE is 100%

Also, consider that Mikal is calling the team exactly as Pie/Kohai. Exactly. It can’t be Pie/WF because of his own words. It can’t be Pie/Castin because he town locked her. Unless you think we’re bussing with Pie/Mikal, which we don’t even have to do cause you are fine with lynching WF, you should know here that WF is scum. Cause you aren’t scum from your own POV.

Whiteflame hasn’t even said anything, which is also concerning

unless you say something that is game changing. You are the common denominator. 

you started with wf 

went to me 

and now you are somewhere else 

do you see why this is flailing?

It’s not flailing. It’s asking for time to evaluate your arguments cause you’re literally just spamming PIE PIE PIE PIE PIE the entire DP.

Where tf is Whiteflame

I’m at work and trying to prevent you from filibustering the entire DP.

Hold on, you made a great point about Whiteflame, let me revevaluate after this meeting I’m in

Also to note. Wf and pie as scum have to bus. 

pie and David would push wf to end the game 

pie and wf have to tunnel each other to put distance between them

That is absolutely not true at all. And WF literally leans town on me right now lol. If anything, you have to put distance between yourself and WF. So good on you for projecting lol

If it was wf and I. I’d have bussed him already and have you shoot pie tomorrow. 

its why I know it’s pie 

A) When WF flips, it’ll could implicate you somehow

B) Why not take the win right now

Mikal / Wf doesn’t make any sense due to castin’s results. 

How?

I understand your paranoia. I’m ok with lynching pie today and me killing wf tomorrow. 

Why can it not be Mikal/WF with WF as OG scum? There’s a 100% chance via POE that WF is scum. There’s more of a 50/50 for me vs Mikal. That should be an objective fact for you.

Mikal is explicitly pushing for a Pie/Kohai team. You know you’re not scum. So why is he trying so hard to lynch me?

Kohai is a nonstarter this DP.

Correct because he cannot be OG scum

1) No reason to CC Thoth

2) No reason to full claim that early

3) You tracked him and he didn’t visit anyone (and that’s telling cause OG scum likely has an active action)

You’re also a non-starter because you can’t be the OG scum and you’re basically confirmed town.

1) Tracker fits in the game so at worst you’re converted

2) You’re role confirmed via Mikal because if you and Mikal were the team, then WF would be lynched by now

3) Everyone here thinks you’re town

Mikal says he visited me and my tracking corroborates it. No, that's not bulletproof, but it's more than I have to go on for whiteflame and Pie. If he was scum, his visiting me means (correct me if I'm wrong plz) he has to be the recruit anyway, and I'm after the OG.

That is correct. Mikal can still be the converted scum and probably only the converted scum.

So, again, whiteflame and Pie.

Despite all of the back-and-forths I see here, nothing has tipped me for Pie or whiteflame. They were on both mislynches. Both their role justifications make sense. Neither whiteflame or Pie has done anything especially scummy to me. If whiteflame was scum he would've had to relay Vader's informant message anyway, so that does nothing. I'll need to think on this more after I'm done for the day.

Here’s a couple of thing:

This is what I said in DP1 to soft claim Martyr:

”Anyone on that wagon probably isnt going to die, especially me, so I suggest to any protective roles to not target me.”

Can you conceivably read this as soft claiming Martyr and trying to bait the NK? The answer should be yes, and that alone puts me at a leg up over WF because it means that I would have been the converted scum.

Ive asked Mikal this a million times, what conceivable evidence do you have that WF is NOT the OG scum? If he’s fake claiming David 8, then Supa’s information doesn’t matter cause he could’ve just changed it. He’s missed twice on the apportion. He has nothing going for him that could prove he’s not the OG scum.

I’ve answered this multiple times. It’s very plausible he’s og

That’s not what I asked you. In what scenario is WF NOT the OG scum? Theres a plausible scenario for me. What plausible, documented scenario is there for WF?

Accept it and have to claim it when no one else has claimed yet?

is that easier than picking a passive role. Much less saying you aren’t beloved to me then changing the way it works slightly when I was referring to that exact type of role. 

Okay, let’s play this game. Why pick Martyr out of any of the hundreds of passive roles?

Still waiting on the reason why WF can’t be the OG scum and what scenario he can’t be.

Why would you want to mass claim as town when as a beloved, martyr, bp. Any of those roles. Serve a purpose when scum do not know. Advocating for a mass claim when your role is better used if you are dead. 

I could ask you the exact same question.

I understand wanting a mass claim. We all wanted it. But context now. Skep pointed all this out. If is useful and explains why you won’t die.

Skep called the team as you and me, so it’s rather rich that you’re cherry picking what he said

This is the 50th time I’m going to ask. Why is WF not the OG scum?

You’re creating a scenario where I’m the OG. Fine. I have an opposing scenario where I’m telling the truth that is equally believable. What scenario does WF have that makes him not the OG scum?

A few fake roles that can be cced when I claimed at the start of the do I motivated him? It puts pressure on him to validate what I’m saying immediately. Do you risk claiming an active role when no one has claimed or do you say a obsure passive that’s safe as shit. 

Why not claim an active role. Gain town cred with you, and the individually push people so my chances of CC are reduced lol

again he softed a power role. Changed it. Said he was wasn’t beloved and basically claimed it during the mass claim. 

That’s your opinion. I softed Martyr. I asked for people to not protect me.

as scum if you got motivated you would absolutely deny it. It makes me look bad as well and he can point back to it. 

Or I accept it and gain town cred

If you're OG, perhaps to lock in your fake role early. If you're the recruit, because you weren't scum yet.

Why lock it in early as OG scum? Wouldn’t I want to keep my options open? Go reread what I wrote in DP. Does that sound more like I’m claiming a PR or a Martyr?

This is a good point. I can't see a world where you were scum, got motivated by Mikal, but denied it. And Lunatic said both sides were overpowered in this game, so I don't believe you could have a passive scum role.

Exactly.

Pretty much everyone still here was on board with the mass claim, so we could ask the same question of anyone.

Sure, but think of it in the context of me being OG scum. Why would I advocate a mass claim and risk being CCed vs going individual after people

He denies it cus he got motivated and say he has a scum role. (Rb, redirect, role cop, anything) he can use it and get two results 

he absolutely would deny this. 

And then subsequently pressure for a mass claim? That makes absolutely no sense.

You didn’t soft claim martyr. You soft claimed a power role. 

Here is what I said: “Anyone on that wagon probably isnt going to die, especially me, so I suggest to any protective roles to not target me.”

I am trying to get NKed. Why? Because it benefits town to be NKed.

because you are scum. Having an active power role doesn’t mean you can claim it. Your claim is convienent. Skep was all over this last dp as well but I dismissed it because of how dumb his role was. You also said you weren’t beloved and claimed a role that functions the same way. Not to mention if I motivated you as scum you could have got 2 night actions. 

No it doesn’t. Martyr and Beloved are fundamentally different. One only has upside for town. And I quite literally said not to protect me for that reason. If you want to take that as soft claiming a PR, potato potahto.

As for having an active PR. Why would I say I didn’t receive anything if I did and draw suspicion onto myself? That makes no sense at all.

because the role is basically beloved and a reason for why you are alive 

It’s not the same role. It’s fundamentally different.

I’m js these arguments are bad. Almost equally as weird as David assuming you are wf are a scum lock but not considering you. 

They’re logical explanations of my actions. You can either assume that I had an active action and chose to say I wasn’t motivated and draw suspicion onto myself, or I told the truth.

It’s an objective fact that if I’m the martyr, I say what I said DP1. Cause it serves 2 purposes. Either mafia kill me, or they’re forced to use potential actions they have on me.

I really dislike how hard this is being pushed

Again, you’ve said nothing about what makes WF not and OG scum. My actions are explainable. There’s no such thing going for WF. I’ll ask you again. What reason do you have to believe that WF is not the OG scum.

im going to entertain this and just accept I may be over thinking. 

if wf is og

who is the recruit. 

I would wager it’s you or Kohai. Outside chance of Wryly, but that’s a tomorrow discussion depending on who mafia will NK tonight. Like I said, it’s impossible to determine motive. Did Casey/WF want to go Kohai because of his killing aspect, or did they want to go you because of your experience?

The POE of who could be OG scum is exactly Whiteflame.

Let’s say you think I’m the OG scum. I soft claimed Martyr in DP1 why? To avoid being interfered with? Protected?

Let’s say I’m the OG scum who has an active role. Why would I say no to Mikal supposedly motivating me? Let’s say I’m an OG scum that has a passive role. That sounds super weak with a Yakuza to begin with.

If I was OG scum, why advocate and literally coordinate a mass claim and risk being caught vs getting individual claims to minimize CC risk?

Why would an OG scum Kohai CC a townie and full claim out of the blue?

There is zero reason to do that.

Thoughts?

which is why the only town play would be to turbo lynch me tomorrow 

Yes, which is what the plan has been the entire time. I created that plan. We identify the OG scum cause speculating over who was converted is useless. If you’re a converted scum, then we are forced to lynch you last. Best case for us you’re scum and we win, worst case you’re town and get the shot to take out scum. It’s that simple really

its this idea of let’s pick him first and solve and how hard it’s being sold. It bleeds like both of you are scum

The POE, as Ive independently said is simple for the reasons I described. Whiteflame has to be the OG scum based on an evaluation of everyone’s behavior and roles