ILikePie5

VTL Pie

Sorry, I'm too used to Pie's ways. He's a slippery bastard as scum and always pleads for more time. Shining is definitely the lynch here based on the feebleness of his claim, so if Pie has a way to prove his innocence, I'd rather get that out of the way first.

what scum incentive do I have to say what I said lol

VOTE COUNT

Awesome5000 (2/7): Shining, Mag1c

Pie (2/7): Rex, Helz

Shinning (2/7): Kohai, Pie

VtL Shining

Hang on, why are you guys asking for my justification and not Awesome's? Anyway, mu justification is dogshit and its obvious Mikal was lazy with AI. My justification is I am silent, but I have a strong desire to win and that makes me a Lightning Rod (Its not actually a LR, mine is just single target).

😂😂😂😂

This is the one bit that I am struggling with.

You keep speaking like you are in some position of power with leverage as you play with smoke and mirrors and act like you are not the one on trial here. You very simply are. And if you had a reason to play games and hide information that damns Rex or someone else you could do that.

I do have the position of power cause I know I am 100% confirmable and will be by the end of the DP. I don’t have to fake it. I know.

I do not trust you and the situation has everything to do with you. Rex is not on trial imo. You are. And I very much doubt there is not a scum between You/Rex/Shining regardless but the way you are handling the situation looks very scummy to me. 

And I’m telling you that I need the full picture from REF. For the record though I do think Shining is scum

None of these factors make sense to me questioning if Pie is town while they all make sense for a scum play. Im calling them out to push for pressure that Pie outs information before demanding information thats potentially damaging to the town (and serves no purpose to solve Pie) for Rex to out.

It actually does.

My entire issue centers around the fact I can not place myself in Pies shoes and understand a town motive.

I know you can’t. It’s because you don’t have the full story. I do. But what’s my scum motivation here lol. He’s already a claimed Cop. And I’m telling you with 100% certainty that I’m innocent.

They feel they can prove themselves. Ok.. sure? But why refuse to reveal bits of information that nail down their potential of defense if they are this totally confirmable townie?

Because I’m 100% confirmable. REF isn’t.

Then there is demanding a full claim from Rex. Why a full claim? Why not specifically ask for the information about the peek? It would slightly make sense if they thought Rex was lying but they have openly said they do not. This is a very weird stance that also does not make sense for town.

I need the full facts. Prima facie I believe REF, but I need all the details

Now they are going after Rex's guild members. What would that possibly have to do with them if they are some confirmed townie that can prove themselves? The only thing that does is shade the potential that they were framed in some way.

Again, this is above you. Find a scum motivation for me to do this lol

To be blunt I am not able to put myself in their shoes and say "As town this makes sense to do" in multiple respects. While I can place myself in their shoes and say "As scum this absolutely makes sense"

Thats my take.

And it’s garbage lol

Pie is claiming that someone in Rex's guild interfered with the results. If he claims Miller after asking if anyone in the guild knew about the investigation, we lynch him. We are trying too hard to be fancy here.

Exactly, it’s not hard

What I am trying to avoid is the basic line of a player claiming a red check. Then Pie demanding specifics so they can go "Oh, well your alignment cop is wrong because I have a miller function" or "Your tracker result is wrong because I was swapped last night" etc.

Pie directly claiming if they visited and who at the very least is a step in the right direction. I am not even asking what they did or what their role is. 

I told you that I’m not a miller and idk if I was swapped.

Im obviously trying to get you to clarify if you have any reason to believe that an alignment cop result would be altered because of whatever you are or if a tracker/detective/motion detector/ anything else looking at movement has a reason to be wrong.

It has nothing to do with me

Rex essentially confirmed the the guild knew he was investigating you, so let's move on to the next step of this process.

Let him confirm. Put it in writing.

Pie, how can you prove your innocence?

I literally will. Have a little faith. If I don’t prove myself by the end of the day, lynch me.

I am fine with looking silly. I get shit wrong all the time.

But here is the thing- 'If' you are town there is absolutely zero reason you can not come out and say "I am not a miller" and "I did not get feedback that I was witched or bussed"

I was not told I’m a miller. Idk what Witched means, and bus drives aren’t notified

I can at least see reasoning to avoid confirming if you visited and who you visited. But you avoiding confirming those two factors just looks scummy as fuck to me. I do not see any world where town would not own up to that and as this drags on you look worse and worse to me. 

If you flip inno tomorrow, then we can investigate my guild for possible leaks/meddling.

Im telling you that I don’t even need to be lynched lol. Just say yes/no and I will reveal everything

Let’s put it this way. I’m telling you that I can prove my innocence, and if I don’t, you can lynch me.

There are only 2 scum left. If you think I’m doing this to develop fake claims

1) You’d have to think I’d be this bad to butcher them for everyone (I’m not)

2) I can only get one person’s claim with literally a million left

The problem is that I do not trust you. I have no reason to. 

I have no reason to say I can prove my innocence if I can’t prove it.

Explain to me why it possibly makes sense for Rex to reveal information instead of you revealing information first?

Because I can prove my innocence. He cannot.

Rex has no motive to lie about you while you have every reason in the world to lie about your situation and wait to discover exactly what you need to lie about. You stalling is just keeping your options open which makes sense. But I am nailing that down and pushing the town to see exactly what you are up to if you are scum.

If I’m lying about proving my innocence, you lynch me. It’s just simple.

I am trying to slow walk the information needed to solve in case this is a TvT situation but if you do not claim I am 100% down to see you swing. There is no harm in you confirming if you are not miller and if you were not bussed and if you did visit a specific player or not. If you have something damning you can reveal to shove Rex lets unpack that after you clarify your mech or give a damn good reason that they should claim first.

"Trust me" is not a valid response that will be considered. 

Then you’re just dumb because I’m telling you I can prove my innocence. You’re going to look silly probably in a few hours.

Nah. Why the push for an insane amount of claims after we just bagged scum back to back? Did you guys use up all your fake claims desperately trying to keep them alive? Trying to get as many people as possible to claim before you have to, to reduce the risk of a counterclaim? There's literally no reason for me to make this up as scum, I see no reason to make it even easier for the remaining scum to find a safe fakeclaim.

Okay let me ask you one question then. Did you tell your guild that you were investigating me last night?

I'm interested in Pie claiming before Rex. Most notably because it seems clear to me that Pie knew Rex visited him prior to Rex outing.

I had a hunch.

I'm not a fan of Shining's claim either. Is there a reason for Shining to be a lightning rod?

He still hasn’t said a justification

At this point my POE is Pie, Shining, Kohai, Awesome, Helz. I actually like Awesome's claim. Helz is more likely 3P than mafia.

I really think people should focus on this specific aspect of ILikePie's reaction to Rex's claim-

They believe Rex is not lying. Yet they want the person they do not think is lying to give a full claim before they so much as reveal if they visited / who they visited. Those two concepts do not logically add up. They would add up 'if' Pie thought Rex was scum faking a claim. But they do not. 

I think it’s very revealing about what happened last night. At best it basically outs a member of scum. It will all make sense. Just trust me.

While at the same time they have motive if scum in nailing down exactly what the information against them is so they can counter it. I strongly feel Pie should be revealing some bits of information before Rex. To be specific-

There are bigger things at play than you know. Let him claim, and then I will reveal all, because my theory leads me to believe something

1- Who did Pie Visit if anyone (no need to claim action type yet)

2- Does Pie have any sort of Miller function

3- Was Pie told they were bussed or anything of the sort

Pie should clarify these things before Rex gives more information imo.

The problem I have is that prior to them revealing some guilty on you I suspected you from analysis. While Rex feels more likely town than scum.

Which you haven’t explained yet, even though I asked

Is there a reason you can not simply nail yourself down to a claim of who you visited? Does it conflict with you proving your innocence?

Im not going to reveal any information, if I’m telling you that I can prove I’m innocent, and you can lynch me if I can’t.

To be blunt Rex does not have a reason to out themselves and lie. This is no sort of Lylo so them flipping a town would just screw their chances if scum. There simply is not a motive for them to lie imo. 

I believe him. I just want to cross my Ts and dot my Is

You do have a reason to lie. Its that simple so I feel we should get information from you prior to getting information from Rex.

It will all be resolved after he full claims

I would say that is excellent. Fits your initial reaction.

Good, so let’s let REF answer the questions

I have no idea if you were visited or not. But I think you should clarify that before waiting to hear if thats what caught you so you can identify exactly whats known about you and counter the information. 

Thats the thing in catching people in a lie. When someone lies they try to find out what people know about them before they make their story. I want you to give your story before whats known about you is clarified.

What if I tell you that I can prove my innocence?

What makes u think I visited anyone?

Character and justification lol? I’ll explain why this is hilarious to me after you full claim

Why do u say that

I really want to know what you have against me, because it will be very informative. I promise I’m town

Man, me and WF on the same wavelength today. I love it

This seems… a bit strange. It’s basically a Lightning Rod with a one-time use. Why would a role like this be restricted to one use? I’d like your justification, but so far at least, I don’t think anyone has claimed a 1X role, at least not among those that garner them through recruitment. So why this one?

+1

Seems rather weak. Especially with the condition of recruitment

Pie says he would quit or blacklist people or whatever, but I've never actually seen him do it. Is there actual precedent for it?

Greyparrot lol

Right, I am about to go to bed, but I'll claim. I am myself (Shining). I don't remember if there is a name for this, but once per game I can target a player and anything done against them, are redirected to me. 

I believe the term is Lightning Rod based on MU. What’s your justification?