ILikePie5

I've pointed it out to the people who matter. I know you're scum because I know that I'm town, I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you that you're scum. Not lynching the only claimed protective role without a counterclaim isn't inside knowledge, it's called not being retarded. I have to admit that I'm baffled that town even went through with that one and am a bit disappointed in them for doing so. It's part of why I don't really care about this game that much - if you could convince town to lynch their only claimed protective role DP2, you'll probably be able to convince them to lynch me as well.

Again. Vader, who you’re all kumbayah with led the wagon for…why? Claiming Jailkeeper lmfao. I lynched him for behavioral reasons. The fact you’re just ignoring this and pinning on me is just laughable.

You can spin it however you want. And I know you want credit for not starting the wagon, but scum is much more likely to hop onto a wagon that somebody else started, that's not a point in your favor. I'm just satisfied with having sussed you out so early, que sera sera when it comes to if town make the right decision.

So now we’re at: “oh Pie is scum because he hopped on a wagon.”

😂😂😂

Thanks for the confession, I was actually wondering why you killed him. I overlooked that fact.

Lmao projecting much?

It was a reaction test. He unfortunately logged out before I got any reaction from him.

Wow, are yall seriously believing this?

I planned to come back later and build a case. Unfortunately, due to holiday callouts I had a huge chunk of work dumped in my lap and never got the time to. It was why I was MIA for the second part of the DP. I also took (and failed, apparently) the temperature of the room and thought that there was a large consensus that Pie was acting scummy from just about every player. The momentum behind the Earth wagon shocked me because I thought the case was particularly bad.

Would you like to explain how the case was bad. Cause everyone was on the wagon basically.

Is Pie dead after cheerfully leading town into disaster after disaster while I stood athwart his path, my 'confirmable role' fluttering proudly in the wind? No? That's how much this site cares about confirmable roles. Like everything else Pie has said this day, it's grandiose bullshit.

A.) You magically showed up and were part of the Kohai lynch DP1, but fine.

B.) The lead wagoner wasn’t me. It was Vader, so you’re literally gaslighting

C.) All the logic pointed to Shining being scum there, which everyone here except you recognized

D.) You did nothing yesterday to stop the lynch on Shining. In fact you’ve been AWOL basically this entire game. It’s quite funny that you show up DP3 and have posted more than all of the previous 2 DPs.

To be frank, I don't know exactly how holy people treat "confirmables" like Neighborizer, Fruit Vendor, etc. here. Rex says that it would be a "shitty ass role" for wolves, but it does seem like it could be useful- on some level, Rex got through Days 1 and 2 partly because of being a "confirmable" role that's "usually Town," right?

People believe it like the gospel. Even the notion of confirmability is treated like the gospel. It’s very poor logic. I literally won a recent scum game where I claimed DP3 Innocent Child to avoid being lynched DP1. And we won that game lol. I know for a fact Whiteflame despises the whole confirmability stuff. Luna does as well. But the community as a whole firmly believes in it.

Although, the one flaw in this theory is the potential existence of a roleblocker/redirector. If you had that, why would you kill Wryly instead of just roleblocking or redirecting and hoping to instigate a wrong result?

I just wrote about in my previous post. Wryly has been townreading Ceru since DP1. That’s a formidable town block once Wryly claims DP3. At that point, the third townie remaining knows exactly which side to back because Town Investigative Wryly is basically confirmed. So they were forced to kill Wryly there, with the icing being on the top being the fact that REF could say anything he wants about what was said in that PM.

Wouldn't it be easier to just figure out who she town read most and have that person carry out the kill if there are two scum?

WIFOM, but I’ll indulge. If you don’t kill Wryly here. She outs tomorrow and there is a possible strong town block formed with Wryly/Ceru. And that is never a team, so whoever the last townie is would know who to support because Weyly as a town investigative is 99% town.

That would be much easier with a private line of communication through which we discussed reads. The whole thing is so convoluted. I could see claiming that I opened a line of communication to manipulate Wryly and gain information (which, this is wifom/selfpsych, but I would not do.

That’s just the brownie points. You had a 50/50 shot of “confirming” yourself to the Town Investigative role. That’s a massive hit. You weren’t even being considered DP2 because of it.

Anyone who ever played scum with me knows how cautious I am). I couldn't see doing that and then killing her when she would be much more open to the mislynch plans that they're claiming that I had.

Read my first paragraph. Wryly believed Ceru since DP1. You can’t beat that townblock. And you can’t argue against that townblock. The third townie would always vote with the investigative role.

It makes zero sense. You notice how they ascribe multiple contradictory motivations to everything I do? I'm manipulating Wryly but I can't control her and I killed her but she trusted me and told me info that had me kill her.

How is it contradictory lmao. This is just funny. Manipulating Wryly was the brownie points, but she publically still sussed you in DP2. So yes, you couldn’t control her. And again the reason for killing her doesn’t have motivation.

They're just throwing everything at the wall and sees what sticks - they did the same thing to Earth and that's what clued me in to Pie being scum. His reasoning was not concise and internally consistent. To be the scum player they think I am I'd have to be a stark, raving schizophrenic.

And yet you never responded to my inquiry. What was inconcise and inconsistent about what I said. It’s a fact that JK is a common fake claim for scum RBs. It’s a fact that he completely 180ed his read on me. It’s a fact that his character was the only one not in S1. It’s a fact that he JKed me even though he thought I was a town PR while leaving his top scumread in Ceru alone. So yes, I do think you’re a stark raving schizophrenic but for these reasons. Cause anyone with a brain would see all of those things and objectively conclude that yup Shining is scummy. Only someone with inside knowledge would read that say Shining is a town protective role so he must be town. And also notice how he’s blaming me for that lynch even though Vader started the wagon and he’s all kumbayah with him. Not only that, but the entire town was scum reading him.

Hypothetically, because your scum team has a 1x Ninja that was already used, you knew that a Tracker or Watcher had to exist because you knew I was telling the truth, so you had to hunt that PR to make sure you didn't get caught in the kill.

Hypothetically, of course.

Exactly my point. Why did they kill Luna? Because he knew that you were the Gravedigger, so logically they had to find the Tracker/Watcher. Who is more likely believe a Gravedigger? A person who is the Tracker or Watcher aka Luna. Why did he neighbor Wryly? Because Wryly also believed that you were the Gravedigger.

They covered their bases perfectly with their NP1 actions. And brownie points for recruiting the least experienced townie who they could manipulate as needed. Combine that with the fact that WF hates these confirmable roles = town logic just like me and Luna, it makes perfect sense for REF to be scum and have that role.

He had already soft claimed a protective. That would make him an unattractive NK target, so he already basically limited the pool within they would kill just as effectively as if he had out and claimed hider.

Again, I had zero reason to out that I was a Hider there. Especially with a crazy nuisance role out there, I wasn’t going to. And in general I never out my role unless it’s a direct CC, which this clearly is not or I am at L-1.

Interesting fact: Pie has Mentioned me 9 times since this phase has started.

I'll be looking things over now...

What’s new lol. I told WF to spam in the NP too lmao

I don’t think it’s Ceru, and I don’t think it’s Rex/Pie

It’s literally Thoth, Rex, or Pie in the POE at this point. Whoever of Rex and Pie is scum is likely the locking the other.

Thoth is also convienantly forgetting about No Ho Hank’s betrayal and trying to align that with a team as well which makes me believe he’s kinda at bat for Pie. I also don’t think he’s considering Pie enough considering that he’s just NOW claiming Hider

I think it’s Thoth / Pie. If I am wrong I am wrong but that’s what my gut is and after Thoth’s response I’m leaning that way

Holy shit. Did you not read a single word of what I said. Your thematic analysis doesn’t mean anything when scum could ask about characters or roles. Or they straight claimed their character. It’s all WIFOM. And when was I supposed to claim Hider? Yesterday? DP1? Are you really saying I’m scum cause I coincidentally claimed last. I straight up just was not awake before you and REF claimed. 

Let me ask you this. What behavioral reason do you have to townread REF over me. I’ve literally led the entire game.

I want to make sure I’m at 100% with my read and there’s no doubts so I don’t think I’m voting. I frankily don’t love the Neighborizer and Wryly still never put Rex in a town pile in DP2 even with Neighborizer. I get it, this doesn’t lock Rex as town but imo I still think there’s some bias of town reading someone because you are in a message with them

You and I both know that role confirmation does not equal affiliation confirmation. And WF subscribes to the same theory. Go look at REF’s reason for sussing me. It’s a whole load of garbage. He just gave a lazy reason in stopping Shining’s lynch while his scum partner was more than willing to

There also is not really a claimed role which I would call “confirmable” or a wild card. Rex’s role fits that wild card motto that I set 

JK is confirmable. Tracker was confirmable if we lynched Ceru. Giving scum a role confirmation is actually broken. I gave a scum messenger once and scum easily won. It’s lazy logic

There is one reason that comes to mind for why you would have killed Wryly if you were a scum Neighborizer: she told you that she was a Tracker/Watcher, and you were afraid that she would see something you didn't want her to.

Exactly. She served her purpose in getting the role confirmation from her. And when he realized she’s the Tracker/Watcher it made perfect sense to have his scum partner do the dirty work while he sits on his pedestal and screams “I told you so,” while acting like he did something. When in reality, he just sat there inactive for hours upon hours.

The series of lynches which this town has engaged in has been disastrous for town.

You were on the first one. You didn’t care who to lynch out of Cerulean or Kohai. You were inactive for the entire DP until the last minute where you came to put a vote.

The first was a last-minute lynch in which we targeted an unclaimed player, so it wasn't so revealing. Even scum didn't know that Kohai was the dreamer. In the second we lynched the claimed jailkeeper on incredibly shaky basis, with Pie implying that he had a protective role, then today he's waffled on that and called his claimed role 'semi-protective'.

Wow, more gaslighting. How is it “waffling.” I said an another protective role could exist and may not want to reveal themselves, but that in itself wasn’t an even a major factor in Shining’s lynch. The major factor was that he claimed a character from a different season, and he completely 180ed a read, did not JK Cerulean who he thought was scum, and instead JKed me even though he thought I was a town PR. He was scummy af objectively. And the fact that only you were against it at the end is revealing. You knew he was town and wanted to use it to your advantage while your scum partner was in favor the lynch.

Scum is clearly between Pie and I, as if it weren't one of us would be dead right now and the game would be over.

Yes, and you are scum.

/in

Why on earth would I want to talk to her if I didn't pressure her for any info or discuss her night actions beyond NP1, which she volunteered by commenting that we targeted each other? How did I manipulate her? Using a role like that as scum is just a needless risk, and not nearly strong enough to balance the protective and investigative roles in this game.

The more you try to WIFOM, the deeper in the hole you get lol.

The role is a blessing for scum. It’s a confirmable role, and we all know this community loves their confirmable roles. Only me, WF, and Luna are weary of these “confirmable roles.” I literally fake claimed Innocent Child and got away with it because it’s a confirmable role lol.

I don’t know what was said in the PM, and no one here you should believe anything you claim Wryly said in the PM. But it’s a fact that using your role on Wryly was the logical option knowing what you know.

As for balance. I don’t know what roles scum has in their arsenal. This entire argument is all WIFOM.

Like what is the claim here? That I as scum have a role that lets me open a chat with a townie as scum, I used it on wryly, who was convinced I was town and suspicious of my supposed mislynch target, and then I killed her?

If Wryly was convinced you were town, she would’ve told you exactly what she did last night. And you yourself admitted that she didn’t.

It’s actually a perfect play to use his ability on Wryly as I mentioned earlier. If he’s scum and Ceru is town, then he knows that either Wryly or Luna are the investigative role. He chopped one and got into a chat with the other. Luna makes sense to kill cause he’s a strong player. Talking to Wryly makes sense as well because he can manipulate her.

If you lynch me after letting him convince you to lynch to jailer last DP town deserves to lose lmao

Lol, if you had a problem, you should’ve said something. Oh wait, you were AWOL while the wagon was building. Also it’s kinda funny that you’re ONLY blaming me for it. Wryly was willing to vote for him as well and Supa was the one who started the lynch.

VTL REF

There is no world where REF is town. He’s straight up gaslighting about events that happened in the game to push his own narrative. I can pull the receipts for anyone interested.

Think about last DP. I was one of the ONLY people pushing back against an Earth lynch and saying that it didn't make sense. Pie literally mislynched the claimed jailkeeper last DP.

Hindsight is 20/20. But objectively he was scummy, and the fact that you’re blaming me for that lynch is rich. Literally your sole reason was “he was a claimed town protective role.” Zero behavioral analysis. And it’s actually funny that you completely ignored the behavior analysis and were AWOL for hours in the day. You didn’t do anything to stop that lynch. You’re flailing hard and you know it

Think about the NKs. Whose strategy do they align with? If I wanted to mislynch Pie this DP, why kill Wryly, who townread me and was willing to lynch Pie?

Who said Wryly was willing to lynch me lol. She made one post last DP about why she sussed me and it was all based on a misunderstanding as she herself acknowledged.

I told Wryly that if I were the NK she should tunnel Pie hard, thinking that the two possibilities were killing me in the night or mislynching me for scumPie this DP. The fact that I was the immediate push for a mislynch from him makes sense with the Wryly kill - it was a kill meant to take out a possible power role, a widely townread player, and one which would isolate me and allow Pie to mislynch me more easily. Wryly was also one of the first people to scumread Pie, even though I had been doing so for a bit before going public with it last DP.

This is just massive gaslighting. REF was the one immediately pushing me. His first post was literally a vote on me lol. Go read my first post. No where was I “immediately pushing” REF. I was analyzing what happened so far. It’s actually really ironic since he’s blaming me for something he literally did. And also the fact that he told Wryly to tunnel me as if she would listen to him, lol

REF has been trying to get a mislynch on me since yesterday. Go read his reasoning for scumreading me DP2. It’s literally just “muh vibes.” He was trying to set it up since yesterday.

Also just saying, I know this is like the second Whiteflame game ever so this sample size is so small, but he had literally a game where he had only 1 vanilla in a 9 person setup as well in this

Yes, I pointed that out, which is why I’m still undecided on who REF’s scum partner is. At this point he’s just flailing

In DP1 I did not start the lynch and wasn't even on it.

I started the wagon in DP2 and was the charge of it, you hopped on quite literally at the last second despite pushing Ceru hard. Now IMO he's town lock (almost)

Bro what? Go reread the DP. I was questioning Shining literally all of last DP. Go look at the 6 points I had made. I never pushed Ceru hard DP2.

Ummm, except you didn't use it? Why on earth would you be worried about a redirector targeting you for a role which you claim to never have used?

Thats hindsight bias. In the moment I was thinking about whether I should use it or not to prevent a possible NK on me. High risk, high reward. Cause believe it or not, I had been the only person active at that point. So I was worried about that, which is why I waived. Again. Conservative.

Hider is just such a weak claim at this point in time consider NOW we know that a Watcher was in the game. Cerulean claimed the Gravedigger right away.

How is it a “weak” claim. Ceru could’ve just as easily asked about Gravedigger and when there was non, SOP claimed it. I’ve been wanting to do it for eons, cause everyone magically believes these SOP roles are town.

Strengthener with a town JK is feasible, maybe Thoth plays on the claim by claiming his actual mafia role at that point, but it makes a lot of sense. 

Why would there be a scum Strengthener? That makes no sense.

I feel like Rex's flip does make sense, considering my affiliation and such. It is hard to see. I just find it hard to buy Pie's claim considering his lazy last-second lynch on Kohai

”Last-second lazy lynch.”

You’ve got to be kidding right. You were the one that started the wagon.

Helloooooooo

More inactivity, sad

A Strengthener makes sense with a Town JK and even more sense with a Scum RB/Redirector/Bus Driver etc. It’s honestly a question of is there a grave digger in the game

Actually, just looked at Microbiology Mafia and there was a lone Vanilla. So if WF used a similar design it makes sense for Supa to actually be a Vanilla here vs a full role madness game. But that means Thoth/Ceru has scum in it. Could be REF/Thoth