ILikePie5

I don’t think the Neighborizer has to be town. I know WF subscribes to the same ideology as me and Luna that confirmable roles aren’t necessarily town roles.

Vanilla is also clearly an outlier when everyone else has a role.

My theory assuming that Ceru is town (which is likely now with Wryly’s flip) is that scum knew there would be a Town Watcher/Tracker. And the people more likely to believe Ceru were more likely to be that role. Which is why Luna was the NK and REF chose to chat with Wryly. They were the only two if I recall that were hesitant on lynching Ceru that day.

Of course this assumes a Gravedigger exists in the first place, which is why I hate being in this position in the first place, but no one ever listens to me

I’m also gonna claim right away. I am Cristobal Sifuentes and I am the vanilla. I slowly fade from relevance from the plot before dying at the end after being captured and going through brainwashing and was betrayed by Hank after being saved

So you’re the only claimed Vanilla. I frankly don’t buy it at all

And that is... exactly what I was afraid of. Right.

Pie hardclaim, then we go from there, I suppose.

I am Monroe Fuches and the Hider. It’s a semi protective role, which is why I was hesitant to believe Shining. I waived both nights to ensure that town gets the maximum amount of lynches possible.

Essentially locks Cerulean by the way

There’s an outside shot there is no Gravedigger and it all comes back to if scum asked about it. If they have like an 1x Ninja, it makes sense, especially considering Wryly was a 1x/1x. But the odds are lower that he’s scum with Wryly’s flip

Its essentially a POE of Rex, Pie, Thoth

I am no-ho hank, I'm the one time neighborizer. I chose Wryly, partly because I thought she TMId DP1 and might be scum and that she would find the chat unnerving and slip, but gradually came to see her as town over the course of DP1. Unfortunately, she never gave me her results for NP1, aside from saying that she visited me. I have no idea who she visited NP2.

So your role is confirmable but your affiliation isn’t

VTL Shining

I’ll be online to hammer. If anyone has any thoughts, now would be the time

He means if there is no scum roleblocker and only a Jailkeeper in the game it would mean his Strengthener is only there to counter a townie role, ergo negative utility (I think)

But he can strengthen the townies as well so they can’t be blocked.

What do you think of the possibility of a 3P

It’s possible but probably unlikely. 6-2-1 is pretty anti-town assuming the 3P can joint win with scum as well. Town would be denied a 3rd lynch of their choosing, which doesn’t make sense to me.

I will say that, if Shining flips Jailkeeper, I'm still going to believe there's a scum roleblocker or redirector. I don't think my role is just negative utility.

How is your role negative utility? Strengtheners are neutral. They can prevent scum and town actions from being blocked or manipulated

You know, I am sick of having the justification conversation every game. Its utterly meaningless most times.

Thats fine, address the rest of the points. The complete 180 explanation you gave was just “muh vibes”

Rex/Shining/Vader feels like the "easy" POE here.

But I also don't think Mafia games are ever allowed to be easy, unless I'm wolfing.

Sometimes the mafia gods are in our favor. I think Wryly’s behavior is town. Vader is still null to me. Thoth feels better now. I think behaviorally you have improved significantly as well. REF is getting weaker. It’s very plausible that there’s 2 scum in Shining/Vader/REF imo. But I am paranoid that Gravedigger was one of the questions asked and not even in the game

Yes I paid him to put that in tildes, what of it

Classic girl behavior

I don't believe WF would discard Barry from the game, and frankly it would surprise me if the main character was on the Mafia side of the theme split. This means that, unfortunately, game is hard.

I wouldn’t discount Barry being scum. I’ve made games here the main character is scum or outright omitted. Barry is probably in the game, but the character itself is NAI

Question, Shining- why didn't you try to roleblock me? It's clear that you did and still do suspect me, and with my claim, I likely would have carried the nightkill, if scum, since being seen wouldn't be incriminating. If you thought Pie was a PR, blocking him would have cost his action as well.

+1

I'm unsure of the implications on Shining's claim. Strengthener implies scum have an RB and Shining could be a scum RB claiming Jailbreaker as a cover. Everyone who's claimed or flipped has a major character from season 1 except Shining. Jim Moss seems like a bit of a pull.

I like this theme analysis. I’ll also say that my character is in season 1 as well, so it fits the analysis.

Again, I thoroughly apologize to everyone for my low activity level. I think I have to claim, even if it's only to get out of the grave I dug (no offense to Cerulean) for myself by being inactive.

Yes you do. And I’m glad you did.

I am Barry Berkman, Strengthener. Each night, I can choose a player and make their action immune to blocks or redirects. Justification is that Barry got other people tangled into his misadventures with the criminal underworld, which led them into committing acts that they would not have done otherwise. Last night, I used it on Wryly because she was my strongest townread.

Hmm. Barry is definitely in the game as the main character. Could he be scum? Maybe. This claim further implicates Shining though. The role is a direct counter to the Roleblock aspect

The reason I thought Lunatic's Informed Townie message about someone's role being a greater nuisance than they know might refer to me is because I could override Shining's Jailkeeper. When I got my role PM, I figured that my role was in this setup to counter a scum roleblocker or redirector of some kind. There probably is one in the setup because I don't think my role is purely negative utility, especially not with Cerulean likely being a Gravedigger, but I didn't know that, if I targeted a mafiosi, I could potentially nullify a town roleblocker and/or a town protective.

This doesn’t make any sense to me, but it’s a red herring regardless. We won’t know what the nuisance is until endgame.

I would still like your reads

VC and Timecheck?

If you didn't execute an action that doesn't mean much; if you did it means quite a bit

I asked WF I should’ve and he said no. He said his policy is that if the role being JKed gives any sort of feedback, the person would receive a notification that their action failed. My role doesn’t receive feedback

I thought roleblocks just block roles, not NK's

It blocks NKs as well usually

If Shining is telling the truth, you either have a passive, waived your action, or got an action failed message last NP. Did you get an action failed message? 

I received no such message

No one has claimed one; if someone came forward with one that would put some pressure on Shining.

I wouldn’t want them to come out, because the other 5 points should be enough. He comes in last second to hammer Kohai. Fine. He Jailkeeps me cause he thinks I’m town. Fine. But now he wants to lynch me? He knows logistically I’m less likely to be town cause if he JKed me, then I wouldn’t be able to execute the NK.

If you’re sussing me for this alone then REF and Shining go way above. I at least had a scum read on Kohai. They just came out of nowhere

Maybe I should just go AWOL like Thoth. Town deserves to lose this. Some of you are hard throwing

Pie: Thoth, Cerulean, Shining

Shining: Pie, Cerulean, XXX

REF: Pie, Supa, Thoth

Vader: Shining, REF, Pie

3 - Pie

2 - Ceru

2 - Thoth

2 - Shining

1 - Supa

1 - REF

Actually swap Ceru with yourself. Both of you are about even in my eyes of scumminess

Bruh

Pie outright admitted he would have tunneled Kohai had he survived and yet when he flipped town he made no attempt to at least recognize he was wrong. If Pie is town, he can't read 'scummy' town players for shit because he was wrong about Kohai and wrong about me. 

It’s not rocket science that I was wrong but that doesn’t mean I was wrong objectively. Objectively, he was scum. Period. And it’s not my fault that he’s scummy as a townie.

Even if he survived, he was going to be scummy. So ironically it’s better that we lynched him yesterday cause if we had lynched Ceru and he’s town we could have been at LYLO tomorrow.

Pie: Thoth, Cerulean, Shining

Shining: Pie, Cerulean, XXX

REF: Pie, Supa, Thoth

Vader: Shining, REF, Ceru

3 - Cerulean

2 - Pie

2 - Thoth

2 - Shining

1 - Supa

1 - REF

His reasoning just seems stretched and more scant than in games where he was town.

Like what?

I don't share or understand many of his scum reads, and I've noticed subtle shifts to drive the lynch onto people who have scumread him this DP, which I interpret as an attempt to mold the late game by establishing himself as an uncontested town leader, not as an honest attempt to scum hunt.

This makes zero sense. I’ve already shared my reasoning for why Shining and Ceru could be scum. Thoth is inactive so he’s dead weight anyways.

Trying to lynch our only claimed protective role with no counterclaim this DP also just seems insane to me from a town perspective, especially since we already lost an investigative role.

And how do you know I’m not a protective role or someone else isn’t?

A) Role isn’t everything.

B) JK could be a RB and likely is

C) Justification doesn’t make sense

D) Complete flip flop on his part on me

E) Hammered Kohai last minute for sole purpose of getting lynch

If you are town, the only place you are carrying town to is a loss.

How lol

I don't see a successful wagon forming on him within 24 hours, but yeah, I'll hammer him.

On what grounds lol. Yes let’s lynch the guy who’s been hard carrying town. Genius idea lol